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Mazarine
01:35 / 26.01.02
Okay, since we've got a zombie thread a-goin', I kinda wanted to crank one up on the perenial topic of vampire movies.

It seems to me that there's an ungodly high concentration of bad movies in the vampire genre. There's at least two [edit: I meant two vampire movies, not necessarily bad ones.] coming up: Blade 2 (Wesley Snipes went to my college's acting conservatory. They're so proud.) and Queen of the Damned (Tom Cruise isn't Lestat any more. Darn the luck.)

So: (she said, in her typical awkward 'here's the point of the thread' fashion) what predictions make we for these two new flicks, what vampire movies have you enjoyed/hated in the past, and what do you think of vamp movies as a whole?

Myself, I loved Blood and Donuts. God bless Canada's film industry. It was sweet, not overly angsty, and dammit, it's called Blood and Donuts. On the other hand, I hated, hated, hated Razor Blade Smile. The lead kept making the expression from the cover of the pre-film US cover of "Briget Jones' Diary."

[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: Mazarine ]
 
 
Molly Shortcake
04:52 / 26.01.02
I'm obsessed with vampires. Not BULLSHIT romantic goth icons, rather, as cultural artifacts. Blade (which is really just White Wolf's world of Darkness) is the most relevant vampire film yet.

Blade *isn't* a classic vampire flick, it's cyberpunk, right down to the mirrorshades. That's why so many poncy goths hate it.

quote:"nOooo... they're aren't any raver vampires, or corporate vampires, just a bunch of wanky goth vampires, just like me!!!"

It isn't the best film in the world, it needs to be edited (too much dialogue) and the political subtexts are barely even mentioned, much less dealt with. It sorely lacks the impact of films like Terminator 2 and Blade Runner.

Vampire Economics 101:

The only currency in a vampire economy is blood. Everything is measured in blood.

Vampire currency is physical, essential for survival. Human currency is virtual, symbolic. For vampires, the real is exchanged for the real. For humans, the real is exchanged for signs of the real. The daywalker treads the path between the real and the virtual.

LaMagra is the Archon of capital, the god of equilavance.

Vampires are both more human than human and more animal than animal. They consume everything in sight, and, in turn, consume each other. Meat, metal and currency are all the same thing; the ultimate biotechnology.

Cyberpunk and vampires. It's like chocolate and Peanut Butter.

[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: Ice Honkey ]
 
 
The Monkey
05:09 / 26.01.02
Blade is also great because, intentionally or not, it traces the pattern of Seventies blaxploitation films.
Shaft with fangs and a big sword...heh!
[play Isaac Hayes score here, interwoven with Toccata Fugue in D Minor....]
"Shadow of the Vampire," about the making of Mernau's "Nosferatu" is also great, in a sick, dark way. And those creepy fingernails clicking all the time...[shiver].

But if you want full-force wanky-goth erotic vampires, go find "The Addiction"
and "The Hunger." The former has Christopher Walken, the latter David Bowie....

But you like "Blood and Donuts," so I have to love you.

Anyway, Tom Cruise was a shitty Lestat...the physicality was all wrong, the acting verging on parody...hold on, the whole fucking movie was pretty gruesome. Brad Pitt? Antonio Banderas? [gag] Pretty boys, all wrong for their parts. And the cheesy toned-down homoeroticism and pedophilic veins? The only worthwhile bit was Stephen Rea's spooky little entre-d'acte as Santiago.

P.S.:
Ice Honkey, whether you intend to or not, you've got vampires on film sounding very much like some sort of Marxist archetypal symbol of capitalist culture...all the grad students out there should take notes....

I noticed it, it's MINE MINE MINE!!! Find your own PhD thesises...fucking leaches....

[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: [infinite monkeys] ]
 
 
Jackie Susann
05:18 / 26.01.02
I think you'll find that a thesis on the vampire as representation of capitalist relations wouldn't be breaking all that much new ground. It's practically there in Marx, the part about capital as dead labour sucking the blood of the living (somebody back me up on this?)

I find it hard to respond to Ice Honkey's post because I can't work out if vampire economis are specifically Blade-related or just vampire-related.

And finally, I can't believe we are three posts in without a mention of Lost Boys.
 
 
The Monkey
05:19 / 26.01.02
Anyway, Mazarine....
I see nothing good coming of the two movies you explicitly mention...sequels are to be feared, and often make the baby Jesus cry.
Trust me, I know.

Anyway, how can you make "Queen of the Damned" without first doing "The Vampire Lestat"...which was the only worthwhile, truly clever Anne Rice vampire novel. QotD has about eight thousand characters who require a half-ton of back story...I can't see a 2-hr. movie doing it justice(?). Anyway, they'll just dodge around all the homoeroticism and intra-vampiric sanguine/sexual tensions, the only things that gave the book any flavor.

And for some reason it bothers mean that in narration Lestat always refers to his penis as "the organ." Pure bodice-ripper-speak.

Love and kisses from the Outer Church.
[smack]
 
 
Jackie Susann
05:21 / 26.01.02
That reminds me, I was watching some early Buffy episodes the other day and the Master had the great line, in the course of a wildly homoerotic scene with undead spunk Luke, "Your body is my instrument." Heh heh.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
05:29 / 26.01.02
quote: I find it hard to respond to Ice Honkey's post because I can't work out if vampire economis are specifically Blade-related or just vampire-related.

Both. But way skewed towards White Wolf / Blade, I make no distinction between them. I haven't even started... there's other stuff 'sides capitalism hinted at in that post YA KNOW. I'm simply using Marxism as a spring board...

[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: Ice Honkey ]
 
 
The Monkey
05:30 / 26.01.02
I think in the Lost Boys I was more afraid of Corey Feldman's wardrobe than the vampires...nonetheless, a seminal vampire flick....

Dread Pirate Crunchy...good point about Marx...can't actually back up quote from Karl himself...but the tone is right. In fact, I'm pretty sure that someone has done a Marxist analysis of "Dracula" itself, in terms of those sorts of symbolic values and representations...anyway, I think at this point there's been a graduate thesis about pretty much everything....

It occurs to me that the entirity of the last couple of posts can be summarized in the character of "Max Shreck" in "Batman Returns." Played, of course, by Christopher Walken... .
 
 
Shortfatdyke
05:47 / 26.01.02
i actually really liked 'blade', but as sequels usually suck, i will avoid it.

my fave vampyre film has to be the original 'nosferatu'. i'm into the whole ancient european folklore bit rather than vampires as 'cool' night kids.
 
 
The Monkey
05:52 / 26.01.02
SFD,

You'd probably like "Shadow of the Vampire."
The premise is that W.F.Mernau hired a real vampire to play the part of Count Orlock. The film is even stranger than the initial premise, I guarantee.
Every year at my university they show the original "Nosferatu," but have a live orchestra perform the score...fabulous.
That scene where Orlock's silhouetted hand reaches out over the coverlettes and seems the grasp the woman's heart...
Actually one of the few cinematic moments ever to pukka frighten me.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
05:55 / 26.01.02
yes, i totally regret missing that one at the cinema. i have virtually no access to the tv right now, so can't even hire a video of it. but the trailer i saw on the net looked great. thanks for reminding me about this one!
 
 
The Monkey
06:03 / 26.01.02
SFD,

A bit of a left turn from "Nosferatu," but you might enjoy a novel entitled "City of Dreadful Night" by Lee Siegel.
It's about a nomadic storyteller in India named Bram who's preoccupied with Dracula. It's apropos to nothing, and barely counts as vampiric subject matter, but thought I'd throw it in....

Kisses from the Outer Church
[smack]
 
 
Mazarine
13:08 / 26.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Ice Honkey:
What in the hell are you talking about? Blade kicks fucking ass. Blade kicked my fucking ass. Blade will kick your fucking ass.
[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: Ice Honkey ]

um... I never said there was anything wrong with Blade, yo. Snipes really did go to my college's acting conservatory, and they really are proud.

Oh wait. Okay. I see. I phrased that all wrong. Excuse me while I clarify my original post. Whoops.

[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: Mazarine ]
 
 
videodrome
14:50 / 26.01.02
Shadow of the Vampire was utter shit. There's a bunch of good actors in it who stand around looking like fools because Merhige couldn't find anything for them to do. There's no script and Malkovich hams like a motherfucker. The only photography that was any good was the Nosferatu recreation stuff - everything else was awful. The whole vampire as metaphor for the creative/filmmaking process line was complete crap and there's really nothing in the film other than Dafoe doing a fantastic job. I spent the entire film waiting for him to come back on screen, because his performance is the only thing that injects any sort of life into this picture. His scenes have a great atmosphere and energy to them which dissipates as soon as he's off screen. Merhige had a good idea and utterly failed to capitalize on it. See the film for DaFoe, because he's great, but have no other expectations.

[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: videodrome ]
 
 
Laughing
14:55 / 26.01.02
Ice Honkey, seeing Blade as a White Wolf-inspired cyberpunk masterpiece is something I've been trying to get people to do since the damn film came out! Thank heavens somebody else out there sees the light.
The oh-so-angsty goth types who tend to cluster around me hated Blade because "It's supposed to be about vampires, not the Matrix! (sounds of tortured weeping)"
I love Blade, for the kung-fu, the insights into the vampiric society, the ambience, the lighting (it's fantastic!), the fact that New Order is on the soundtrack, the whole "Blood Bath" scene, and for Stephen Dorff and Traci Lords (if I could only coax them both into bed....).
And as for the sequel, I quiver in antici-.....
....-pation.

Oh, and another great vampire movie is Near Dark. Bill Paxton is very underrated, don't you think?
 
 
The Monkey
16:40 / 26.01.02
Question:
Could a comics book person please answer this one. As I recall, Blade has been a comic book for yonks, and the vampire social system/network has been established in that plotline for while...or is it really that the movie tapped into White Wolf? I actually thought it was the inverse situation...White Wolf really dragged in the derivation sources when it created Vampire.
 
 
pantone 292
19:00 / 26.01.02
there is definitely stuff on Marx and supernatural figures btw, hell, isnt Angel somewhat playing that to death?

i've said it before an i'll say it again...Nadja, dir. Michael Almereyda, is bloody excellent. ELina Lowensohn as lesbian vampire daughter of dracula in NY.MMM.
shadow = hammy horror, great comedy but...
the whole principle of the how do vamps get around by day, i know, in a blacked out van thing in Near Dark also very good.
the Addiction also rocks for Lily Taylor's bloodsucking philosophy student,
ze hunger - a well known Barbelith favourite, 'what's that music you're playing, Mrs Blaylock...?'
 
 
Bear
19:48 / 26.01.02
Ahh vampyre movies I've got a bit of thing going for vamps ... to be honest I've not read the Anne Rice stuff, I prefer the modern day take on it all, I'm actually re-reading The Last Vampire (teen horror from my youth)

I quite enjoyed Blade - yeah someone from the comics will have to tell the Blade story, I only know him from the Spiderman cartoon

Lost Boys gets a mention of course
Near Dark - loved it when I first saw it

I'm sure there are more...
 
 
Trijhaos
22:38 / 26.01.02
I thought From Dusk til Dawn was a pretty decent vampire movie and you can't go wrong with a vampire hunter named Sex Machine. John Carpenter's Vampires was also pretty nifty with church sanctioned vampire hunters and the western motif.
As for the Lost Boys, wasn't a sequel supposed to be made at one time? I vaguely recall coming across a Lost Boys 2 script awhile back.
 
 
Mazarine
01:01 / 27.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Trijhaos:
As for the Lost Boys, wasn't a sequel supposed to be made at one time? I vaguely recall coming across a Lost Boys 2 script awhile back.

Ditto, but I also remember reading a statement about how there was zero interest in the movie among anyone with the money to make it. Still, an antler through the heart will kill all kinds of things, but I don't think a vampire is one of them. <shrug>
 
 
Bear
07:52 / 27.01.02
Yeah there was actually talk of Lost Girls even worse there was talk of Britney Spears being in it

But actually I saw her last nite on tv and she seemed pretty cool, not that makes any difference
 
 
invisible_al
13:47 / 27.01.02
Blade, tis a pity it could have been a really good film but it just didn't come together for me. Cyberpunk and Vampires, genres born to go together I mean its always night in Blade Runner for a start.

I think it was a combination of bad acting with just about everyone in the film and nothing really special on the scripts part. Had some nice bits, Deacon Frost I thought was alright, the whole branding thing for vampire property as well, but it was merely an ok movie, nothing special.

Apparently the white wolf connection becomes clearer in the directors cut, where you see a lot more of the vampires social system. Haven't seen it so can't say any more, anyone has? Is the directors cut a better film?

As for Razor Blade Smile, well it is complete and utter tosh, what you get when the director tells his live-roleplaying mates to pop round in suits and shades plus guns and run around a bit in the local park. With bonus points for dodgy soft porn actress in the lead role.


It was so tosh it was very funny and the entire film I thought was saved by the ending.

Lost boys I've heard said looked almost like two different films put together, the one with the older brother vs the pack and theres this other film with the annoying kids going on at the same time. Weird.

[ 27-01-2002: Message edited by: invisible_al ]
 
 
Rev. Wright
14:25 / 27.01.02
Vampires don't chew ma bone, in comparison to other 'undead',b ut I must say that one of my fave films is Killing Zoe, a bizarre twist on vampire iconography and mythos, mixed with gangsters. Obviously Dusk Till Dawn was a more blatant split in the genre by comparison.
I also really liked the Nicholas Cage film (name leaves me presently), where he develops a psychosis that he is vampire.

Klaus Kinski did a great job on recreating the original count, but Willem Defoe is superb in Shadow of a Vampire, just a pitty about John M in the lead and the direction.

[ 28-01-2002: Message edited by: Will 'it work' Wright ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:19 / 27.01.02
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Vamp...
 
 
videodrome
19:42 / 27.01.02
quote:
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Vamp...

Or Bordello of Blood...
 
 
Molly Shortcake
20:20 / 27.01.02
Why don't you guys tell us about them...
 
 
videodrome
20:31 / 27.01.02
quote:


Or Bordello of Blood...

Well, Ice, this is one to avoid. It's one of the short line of Tales From The Crypt films. Breasts, blood and Dennis Miller. Need to know more? Didn't think so. Just rent the Morrisey Blood For Dracula instead if you want breasts and blood. It's a lot more entertaining. Just thinking of Udo Kier talking about "wirgins" makes me laugh.
 
 
The Strobe
20:58 / 27.01.02
I'd just like to heavily plug the Channel 4 series Ultraviolet, which I know a ton of people dissed, but I really liked, so nah. It actually _worked_, gave the vampires a relatively fair point too, was relatively intelligent and had some strong storylines, even if the paedophile one, as Tom will tell you, was not the most sensitive or subtle of ones.
 
 
Fra Dolcino
07:50 / 28.01.02
If its breast and blood you want (sorry videodrome, can't run to Dennis Miller), then check out Jean Rollins. especially 'Requiem of the Vampire' and 'Shiver of the vampire'. Russ Meyer with pointed teeth.

And Paleface, you are a scholar and a sage.
 
 
rizla mission
11:49 / 28.01.02
There's kind of a lack of REALLY good vampire movies, isn't there?

I mean, most of the ones mentioned on this thread are questionable at best..

I thought Near Dark was quite good. But again, nowhere near a classic.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:30 / 28.01.02
Vamp: a bunch of college boys go to the wrong (ie, er, black) side of town to see a stripshow, which turns out to consist of Grace Jones being very scary and voodoo. Then she seduces one of the boys, bites him, and he ends up turning into a vampire. Er, that's about it, I think... It's a comedy thriller. Not actually very good, but y'know...

Much better, and another one I can't believe hasn't been mentioned, is Innocent Blood. Anne Parillaud is the 'good' vampire, Robert Loggia is the mob boss she accidentally turns into a vampire who then sets about creating a vampire mafia, Anthony LaPaglia is the obligatory slightly dim cop (note: this movie also features Chazz Palminteri - Anthony LaPaglia and Chazz Palminteri in the same film? how can it go wrong? two great tastes, etc). Anyway, this film contains one of the most memorable vampire/human sex scenes I've seen: LaPaglia and Parillaud are holed up in some motel room, she wants a shag but his slightly pathetic vampophobia means he resists her considerable charms, until she offers to handcuff her arms behind her back and face away from him (not so much offers as much as just, well, does this). He does the sensible thing, but no sooner have they started than she snaps the cuffs off with a growl, and basically flips him. Yowsa.

Yes, I do have a thing for vampires...

[ 28-01-2002: Message edited by: Flyboy ]
 
 
Fra Dolcino
13:57 / 28.01.02
Ooh-Ooh, musn't forget Fright Night in all this.

'Eeeeeeeevil.....'
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
15:34 / 28.01.02
I see the Blade as cyberpunk idea and I think it's an idea that can work but didn't very well in Blade and the dialogue was awful. I think it may have had the same problem as innocent blood, when trying to mix genres one or both of the genres suffer, it's rarely done well. Blade as an action film was pleasantly average.

Same problem with ultra-violet, it was very, very nearly so good but the elements just didn't quite gel together somehow.

Now to just contradict everything I've just said. My favorite's gotta be Near Dark, great film and half the cast of Aliens turning up in fancy dress. Lance Henrikson at his best.

Quite amused by Dusk Till Dawm but still seems to be lacking somewhat as a vampire film. Hated Carpenter's Vampires with a passion. Like the first ten minutes of the Hunger but again the trying to put the supernatural into a scientific framework just didn't work for me.

Shadow of the Vampire has best line in a vampire film award for Eddie Izzard's straight faced delivery of "The man's a Stanislavkian lunatic." And I thought editing together Juliat Binoche and Nosferatu in Killing Zoe was a superlative idea but then I would I've got a thing for guys with long fingernails.

As for the Blade vs White Wolf thing. This is what little I know but I suspect we can probably find someone else who would have more of an idea. Blade I think started off as a minor character in the comics and was connected to another half vamp character called Mobius in someway. I think at the point of the inception of Vampire the role playing game all the vampire had been removed from the Marvel universe when Doctor Strange had defeated Dracula (I can't believe I'm typing this in an open forum). So the answer is that Blade did rip off White Wolf (who ripped off the Hunger, Nancy A Collins etc) but it was the comic and not the film that started it. White Wolf has made some jokey comments about it but don't seem to bothered (perhaps because they could potentially come into a lot more criticism for that kind of thing than even Marvel) but hey it's all postmodernism isn't it.

For the truly, truly lamentable see if you can find a few episodes of kindred the embraced white wolf's, Spelling produced TV series. Not only get my prize for worst vampire flick (makes Razor Blade Smile look like high art) but may even win my award for worse TV programme ever.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:45 / 28.01.02
IMHO, most vampire films are on the far side of extreme pants-ness. I like Interview and Lost Boys because they're a lot of fun, and there's one or two others I'd watch again to while away an idle hour or two, but the only vampire films I would deem really good are Near Dark and...
er...
um...
hmm...

Nope, actually it's just Near Dark. Sorry.
 
 
Bear
16:00 / 28.01.02
Innocent Blood, yeah I quite enjoyed that one, I remember watching it late night on ITV must have been about 14, loved the way she scooted up the drainpipes on the buildings...
 
  

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