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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

The Matrix: Revisited

17:04 / 22.01.02

Anyone else seen this? I usually dislike "making of" documentaries, but this one really impressed me. Watching the amount of work the actors put into the film actually increased my enjoyment of it when I watched it again.

The highlights: Watching the HK stuntmen performing the dojo and subway fight scenes in full before the actors got a try, outstanding. Watching the training for the sequel - multiple opponent fight scenes and weapons and the AniMatrix features, has anyone seen any of those?

pointless and uncalled for

17:11 / 22.01.02

Yep, I liked it. Sometimes it's good to know these things.

17:19 / 22.01.02

I haven't seen revisted yet, but I did see a couple of the "making of..." things that were floating around when the movie was first released. That was deffinetly cool. Though, I tend to get into that kind of shit.

thread rot: I also watched the movie recently, for the first time since I started getting into martial arts flicks. Um, is it just me, or is the kung fu in The Matrix shit? And the gun scene's left me cold. But I haven't been able to enjoy a good shoot out since I first saw John Woo direct Chow Yun Fat.

The story's good though, so I'll over look it all

edited so I sound semi intelligent.

[ 22-01-2002: Message edited by: I Am ]

19:09 / 22.01.02

quote:Originally posted by I Am:

thread rot: I also watched the movie recently, for the first time since I started getting into martial arts flicks. Um, is it just me, or is the kung fu in The Matrix shit?

That was one of the things that impressed me, going from nothing to that in four months is pretty damn good, but compared to stuntmen.... well they couln't, they were fantastic. Watching Reeves perfectionism in action, training with a buggered neck, and Carrie-Ann Moss hurting her ankle shows how hard it was for them.

Thread rot squared - what style?

20:03 / 22.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Duncan disorderly:

That was one of the things that impressed me, going from nothing to that in four months is pretty damn good, but compared to stuntmen.... well they couln't, they were fantastic. Watching Reeves perfectionism in action, training with a buggered neck, and Carrie-Ann Moss hurting her ankle shows how hard it was for them.

Oh, I'm impressed by what they've done. It's just after watching Jet Li in action, it's a bit... It's just not as cool as I think I originally thought it was.

In the commentary for Ounce Upon A Time In China, the "expert" talks about how it's a shame that they were forced to use wirework in the ladder scene (Jet hurt himself) because both fighters were so good on their own that they didn't need it. When I watched the Matrix again, I fully understood what the guy meant.

edited to add: It's a completly unfair comparison, but one my head keeps jumping to.

[ 22-01-2002: Message edited by: I Am ]

20:27 / 22.01.02

Yes, the kung-fu in the Matrix is shit. Yuen Woo-Ping, the action choregrapher is usually a master of the fight scene (look at Drunken Master for proof) so fuck knows why he dumbed it down for the wachowskis. hang on...yeah...I do know...

20:48 / 22.01.02

Most American KungFu flicks 'dumb down' their fight scenes. Jackie Chan US films are more slapstick comedy stunt flicks than martial arts films, while Jet Li's US films are really very poor compared to his HK output. Relying more and more on cable work and special effects and less on Jet's rather nifty KungFu.

Though, he did do some Baugua in his new flick, which I thought was really cool.

12:13 / 23.01.02

My guess is they want to go for that, "ooo they're flying, but they aren't. What a neat special effect" gimmick, instead of just showing some really talented people do their thing.

The US seems to be so centered around effects right now, that if you've got an action film, then it's expected that you'll have effects in it

Where in Asia, where martial arts is more common, and better understood, people are more likely to realize that a lot of wire work is used to cover up shitty fighters.

Or am I just completly full of shit?

Acctually, all of this begs the question. It's been so long since I've seen a Van Damme and Segal flick, I can't even remember how well they fought. And since I have NO interest in seeing their movies again (not even Double Impact, or whatever Woo's first US film was) I wonder what the opinion of them is?

Oh, and on an aside, didn't I hear a rumor that Woo moved back to Hong Kong after MI:2? I hope so, America just won't let him do the films like he should.

A bit of trivia from the commentary track for Once Upon A Time In China, the thing that sets Jet Li apart from both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan is that, of the three, he's the only one with a real training in martial arts. The other two developed styles that were tailored for making movies instead of "real" fighting. *That said, I wouldn't want to get into a fight with any of them, but...*

14:14 / 23.01.02

quote:Originally posted by I Am:
the thing that sets Jet Li apart from both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan is that, of the three, he's the only one with a real training in martial arts. The other two developed styles that were tailored for making movies instead of "real" fighting.

I beg your pardon??

<cough>

<cough>

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: grant ]

14:45 / 23.01.02

Sir you have been gravely misinformed.

But the easy one first, Van Damme looks a gracefull kicker, but doesn't really flow, I loved "Bloodsport" as a kid because it was new and I'd never seen anything like it before.
Most since are V.poor.
As for Seagal, again, graceful and brutal, a nice alternative to the dominant
kicking people in the head style of martial arts films of the late 80's in the early urban cop seeking revenge on the men who killed his partner/wife/family/hamster,
but lately, not so great.

Are you sure you mean Jet Li is the one with the "real" training? (defining real is an argument in itself)
But the simple version is Jet Li - Chinese national Wushu Solo Forms champion, Wushu being a formalised version of several chinese martial arts, the Forms part being the moves you do on your own. So basically all that proves is that he is a very good dancer

. It doesn't mean he can't fight, it doesn't mean he can.

Jackie Chan - trained in several traditonal styles at Peking opera school, for stage fighting, but again, doesn't mean he can or can't fight.

Bruce Lee - Started in Wing Chun, got in fights, saw the limitations TO HIM of WC, and started to investigate other styles/philosophies, this led to the creation of his Jeet Kune Do, a loose set of principles and philosophies for the practice of martial art and the expression of the human spirit through said art. JKD continues today in a variety of schools, mainly split into two areas - those who stick to what Lee was doing thirty years ago, and those who only use the philosophies and try to discover "their own truth" from the arts, using some of Lee's stuff as the building blocks. It should also be noted that what Lee did in the movies was very different to his practical thinking at the time, as can be seen from his early texts, low kicks, lots of hands and trapping. The general consensus from those who trained with him is that he was indeed the real deal.

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: Duncan disorderly ]

16:04 / 23.01.02

I knew someone was going to call me on my shotty memory. And the DVD was packed up last night in preperation for the move in two weeks.

So, again off shotty memory, let me elaborate. First, I'm just repeating shit I heard before. No real knowledge of my own. Meant to imply that to begin with.

Two, I think what the guy was getting at was Jet Li's formal training for a large portion of his life. I know as far as Jackie Chan was concerned, he was refering to Jackie being trained for Peking Opera fighting, not "reguliar" fighting. As for Bruce, I'm guessing it was the extensiveness of Jet's training. The guy did make note though that both Jackie and Bruce were great fighters. Just pointing out that Jet was the only one to under go extensive "reguliar" training.

Now that I think about it, I think he was really trying to point out the difference between Jet and actors who had come out of the Peking Opera. And probably just kind of mentioned Bruce on a whim, with out really thinking about it.

Have I back peddled enough? Or should I keep going?

17:10 / 23.01.02

No need to back pedal at all.

As for the regular training - (I'm having a dig at the guy on the DVD here), at the peking opera school martial arts were practised for sevral hours each day and Chan was there from the ages 5 - 14.
And as for the "regular" training part, what is that? What's the difference between training in traditional styles for displaying on screen and for training in a government sanctioned hybrid for displaying in front of a panel of judges?

All this is just because I like Jackie Chan's films more than Jet Li's though, those early 80's films from Chan inspired to do martial arts more than Jet Li and Bruce Lee put together, he's never the invincible asskicker, you know? Obviously he wins 'cause he's the goodie, but he's he doesn't have an easy time of it.

09:20 / 16.05.02

(bump)

Many moons ago, tSuibhne wrote: Oh, and on an aside, didn't I hear a rumor that Woo moved back to Hong Kong after MI:2? I hope so, America just won't let him do the films like he should.

How true. Actually saw "Windtalkers" a week ago, but I think that's the subject of another thread.

Sick to death of all the Star Wars stuff? Well, Warner Brothers has a teaser trailer for "The Matrix: Reloaded" It's got a short blip of what looks like Zion & some brothers with rasta dreads. A long time ago, I found a really well-written webpage that talked about the spirituality of "The Matrix" (specifically as it related to Judaism & Rastafarianism), but I'll be damned if I can remember where I found it. But I did find a so-so webpage about the similarities between The Matrix & Ghost In The Shell. Oh yeah, almost forgot. The teaser trailer's at:

http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com

Just a warning for those with dial-ups that it may take awhile. Even the low-res trailer takes up over 7 megs.

13:13 / 16.05.02

I saw the new Matrix trailer last night before Star Wars II. The trailer was very weak. None of it looked original. It just looked like a few minutes of shots taken from the first film.

Star Wars was very, very good though.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

17:22 / 16.05.02

They are showing this documentary on Pay Per View (which I think is darn weird) and I'm just wondering...as a huge fan of the movie, is it worth $3.99 to buy this and tape it, putting it next to my Matrix DVD?

19:17 / 16.05.02

"I think what the guy was getting at was Jet Li's formal training for a large portion of his life. I know as far as Jackie Chan was concerned, he was refering to Jackie being trained for Peking Opera fighting, not "reguliar" fighting. As for Bruce, I'm guessing it was the extensiveness of Jet's training. The guy did make note though that both Jackie and Bruce were great fighters. Just pointing out that Jet was the only one to under go extensive "reguliar" training."

Here's the Deal...

Jet Li has been a Wushu Champion since the age of 7... Performed on the white house lawn for Richard Nixon. Now the general view of Wushu is that it's not really a martial art. Granted it's not as fight effective as Wing Chun (who here would know the difference?). Still, it is certainly a KUNGFU and if pressed, I'm sure Jet can take care of himself in a fight. Consider also that he is now older than Bruce Lee ever got, thus he's simply had more time to develop champion level Kungfu... and a working understanding of MANY different Kungfu styles... Consider also that he is From China not Hong Kong & had had a lifetime of Kungfu training unavailable to either Jackie Chan Or Bruce Lee.

Yes, Jackie Chan was trained with the Peking Opera, and of them all his training was specificly oriented towards performance. Still, He continues to train and has been learning a variety of Martial Arts... Most reciently Southern Mantis.

Then there's Bruce, both an actor & fighter since childhood, his training in Wing Chun was based on the amount of trouble he would get into as a kid. His father hoped some ridgid training would instill disipline in the punk kid... it worked. His role as a fighet/actor stayed with him his whole life... & while he certainly know how to fight for the camera... he also knew how to fight for the streets...

Yen Weu Ping... the fight director & rainer for the matrix, also grew up in a martial family... he's got some real Kungfu, as well as serious know how for Movie-fu...

um... sorry just my 2 cents.

20:41 / 16.05.02

Pat, please do an article for the zine on martial arts. Please?

00:05 / 17.05.02

Jeeese... Martial arts is a HUGE topic... where would I begin?

Our Lady of The Two Towers

12:26 / 17.05.02

If it's the essay on Spirituality and the Matrix that I think you're thinking of, it's up somewhere at Disinfo.com Can't be bothered to go look for it, one for theory bitch-queens only from what I remember.

13:05 / 17.05.02

How about some kind of intro for people who want to get into the movies. Good movies, WHY they're so good, etc. then may be follow with a "further reading" section at the end.

16:27 / 11.06.02

Found this article interesting.

Basically the producers of The Matrix Reloaded want to shut down a large section of Sydney so they can fly a helicopter around the city. Sometimes getting as low as 600 feet. Producers are calling it the most complicated sequence ever filmed. Anyone care to dispute it?

17:15 / 11.06.02

[B]Basically the producers of The Matrix Reloaded want to shut down a large section of Sydney so they can fly a helicopter around the city. Sometimes getting as low as 600 feet. Producers are calling it the most complicated sequence ever filmed. [B/]

Or for a fraction of the cost they could use CGI.
I fucking hate it when filmmakers inconvenience the public to make some shit film.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

20:18 / 11.06.02

I f***ing love it when they choose not to use cgi.

Models, live shots, anything but CGI.

22:20 / 11.06.02

I fucking hate it when filmmakers inconvenience the public to make some shit film.

Yeah, it's pretty inconvenient when a production company pours 50 million dollars into a city's economy. It's really hard to watch as they sit back and employ several hundred people, just off the cuff like that. Ought to be stopped. Let's give all that money to the same twenty guys in California instead, eh?

00:53 / 12.06.02

...the shutdown might be for this supposed car chase scene where the characters fight in air between and on cars...it's at least what I heard. Sounds like it might be interesting.

Now only if the flick was less fluff and got into the dark side of AI and machines. The plot for me is a bit unimaginative...think of the feelings Aliens or Hellraiser inhabit.

As far as similarities, go no further than Tron.

The Natural Way

07:34 / 12.06.02

I'm so looking forward to that scene. Hindermate told me about it just over a month ago and I leapt about, punching the air w/ my fist. Then I did a spinning bird kick.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

16:34 / 12.06.02

Got the double disk pack a week or two ago and have been going through it all, great fun but the mouse control on features on the movie is really shitly done.