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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

If...

10:48 / 11.12.01

If.. is on TV next saturday.

BBC2, don't remember the exact time.

For those who haven't seen it, it's absolutely essential - a direct influence on The Invisibles, a fantastic study of teenage rebellion, a startling social allegory and a generally beautiful film.

DON'T MISS IT.

(and, er, if you're going to the meet-up in London - be sure to set your videos!)

10:57 / 11.12.01

Oh God, my favourite film of all time. It has EVERYTHING. As Riz says - social allegory, teen rebellion, exploration of sexualities... pretty young men AND it is set in boarding school, thus managing to combine just about everything I ever really cared about (except C18 history, obviously).

I rather resent the introduction of 'the girl' - don't know what you think, Riz - even though it's obvious why she's there in some respects.

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:09 / 11.12.01

I fucking love this film.

"Boys, boys! I understand! I'm on your side! Listen to reason!"

11:35 / 11.12.01

not strictly important but - where did you find that picture, Flyboy?

I've searched the 'net for hours looking for traces of If.. and found barely any..

I'm stealing it for my desktop wallpaper if you don't object.

quote:Originally posted by Kit-Cat Club:

I rather resent the introduction of 'the girl' - don't know what you think, Riz - even though it's obvious why she's there in some respects.

well, um, I suppose the girl addresses the simultaneous idealization and othering of women that inevitably occurs in an all male enviroment .. more of a mysterious fantasy figure than a real person.. a personification of will & desire or a ghost/spirit or something..

..it's rather hard to talk about the matter without being reduced to a gibbering hormonal mess, though.

It's that kind of film.

It's just ..wow.

11:41 / 11.12.01

Mmm, yes... I was thinking that she is the representation of the outside world, personified and sexualised, intruding into the sealed world of the boarding school - the final catalyst in the film.

I suppose I find it a bit irritating (only a very little though) because I find the idea of the homosocial/homoerotic environment attractive (NOT the queasy prefect/fag aspect which is also present in the film)

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:52 / 11.12.01

quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:
not strictly important but - where did you find that picture, Flyboy?

Google Image search, with the words 'if lindsay anderson'. Disturbingly, it's from some twee site devoted to British Sixties culture...

18:00 / 11.12.01

Can anyone tell me who directed this film?

20:25 / 11.12.01

Lindsay Anderson, I believe.

Notable also, for the fact that much of the film was shot at my old school. A parent of a friend suggested that College ought to commemorate this in some way; I agreed that a paving stone in the quad saying "In 1969, Lindsay Anderson shot the headmaster of college here" would do nicely. Not going to happen, though...

Eblis O'Shaughnessy

23:29 / 11.12.01

Damn. I saw that movie years ago on Bravo, promptly forgot the name in the years past. And now when I try to hunt it down again, it seems that it's not published in the US anymore. Fuck.

Jack The Bodiless

16:10 / 12.12.01

God, I haven't seen that in years... right. I'm not coming on Saturday anymore. Fly, can you buy Bill a pint ofr lager and Red Bull for me? I'll pay you back next week.

10:56 / 13.12.01

if I didn't already have it on video I'd do the same.

13:56 / 13.12.01

if you think thats good (and no pun intended) then you'll love this:

New Years Eve, Channel 4 - The Wicker Man...

'nuff said.

13:58 / 13.12.01

Codswallop. If... knocks The Wicker Man into a cocked hat. Fight!

13:59 / 13.12.01

quote:Originally posted by Kit-Cat Club:
Codswallop. If... knocks The Wicker Man into a cocked hat. Fight!

maybe so kit-cat. Just like the idea that these two movies bookend the festive tv highlights.

14:15 / 13.12.01

Agreed re the relative values of If.. and TWM.

Unless it's the not shown before on TV 2hr cut of TWM which is meant to be particularly excellent but I haven't seen.

Thanks for the info. I am now looking forward to the holidays.

07:19 / 15.12.01

Don't forget to set your videos

16:25 / 27.12.01

I'm going to do this because I feel I ought.

If annotations:- relating to a thread on the previous board.

The crusader guy in the final scene is dressed in that way because he is representing the college founder on 'Founders Day'. The head starts the service of by kissing his ring and promising fealty.

The whole thing suddenly starts to look a bit more modern in a Chris Morris / Dom Joly way on this viewing. (Note the old lady reprimanding the boys fighting on the pavement:- pure Dom!)It is a wonderful spoof documentary and actually reminded me of Robert Altman but less casual in its construction.

Blood is key in the transformation from factual to super-real. Three references.

1) In the sword fight (presaged by sword wearing crusaders in the stain glass windows) Travis looks at his cut hand 'Look real blood' with wedding night awe in his voice.

In this the possibility of real use of weapons appears, and the line between play and war begins to weaken

2) Blood is found in the cane cuts on the upper thigh in the beating scene.

In this the enemy identifies itself by shedding blood.

3) The blood brother ceremony of the Travis and his chums. In which blood moves them forward from play to adult armed aggression.

On the other hand the shaving of nasty whip two by beautiful scum does not draw blood. (There is no passion there, just flirting)

Favourite lines on this viewing

'You give Coca Cola to your Scum and your best teddy bear to Oxfam'

My rating 17 Stars, and slice of lemon.

[ 27-12-2001: Message edited by: Jawbone ]

08:07 / 29.12.01

also the long mogadon of a scene where he's shooting at representations of all his personal icons, covering them with that fake red ink

i think o lucky man was on over christmas but y'know me and channel 5

who want's a fight between the wicker man and Matthew Hopkin: Witchfinder General ?

08:07 / 29.12.01

quote:Originally posted by Jawbone:

"You give Coca Cola to your Scum and your best teddy bear to Oxfam..

..and expect us to kiss your frigid fingers for the rest of your frigid life."

I'm still not sure exactly what's supposed to be implied by that line, but it sounds like the most biting insult imaginable..

More annotations:

Possibly the strangest scene in the whole film, and one that's often overlooked -

When the boy's are cleaning out that cellar, just before they find the weapons. They collectively wander over to a locked cupboard, break the lock and Mick immediately lifts out (as if he'd been looking for it) a jar with a dead baby in it.
I thought the first few viewings that it was maybe a stuffed rabbit or something, it's kind of hard to make out in black & white, but it's definately a baby, or a fetus or something like that.
He then hands it to the Girl, who seems to have appeared out of nowhere(some heavy freudian overtones there I think), and she leads them to the armoury.

A very odd scene indeed - strong symbolism; male, female, pickled baby, guns.. and it's all acted out silently and deliberately, like a magickal ritual or something..

Cleanliving Ruby

11:04 / 30.12.01

Um...does anyone know where you could get hold of a copy of If.. in London?
Either to rent or buy.

07:03 / 31.12.01

Well you could try all those big shops like HMV and Virgin and the other one.. I'm sure I'ver seen video copies of it in those sort of places once or twice.

15:04 / 31.12.01

Lending Libraries have Film Archives. Try these. That's how I got the last copy I saw.

17:45 / 03.04.02

so how do people stack this up against britannia hospital and oh lucky man? the three stages of life or something, no?

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

23:51 / 27.06.07

I am reviving this thread rather then making a new one to let people who are interested know that IF... has been released as a Criterion Collection DVD.

From the Criterion web pag:

SPECIAL EDITION DOUBLE-DISC SET FEATURES
New, restored high-definition digital transfer, approved by cinematographer Miroslav Ondricek and assistant editor Ian Rakoff
Audio commentary featuring film critic and historian David Robinson and actor Malcolm McDowell
Cast and Crew (2003), an episode from the Scottish TV series featuring interviews with McDowell, Ondricek, Rakoff, director’s assistant Stephen Frears, producer Michael Medwin, and screenwriter David Sherwin
New video interview with actor Graham Crowden
Thursday’s Children (1954), Academy Award–winning documentary about a school for deaf children, directed by Anderson and Guy Brenton and narrated by Richard Burton
Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
PLUS: A booklet featuring pieces by critic David Ehrenstein, screenwriter David Sherwin, and director Lindsay Anderson

-------------

I ordered mine already from Amazon and it should arrive tomorrow. I will post impressions of this version as soon as I watch it. I am sure, however, that it will be a much better quality then the first time I saw it, since that was an ancient VHS tape.

19:37 / 28.06.07

Amazon Uk is also doing a cushty version (not Criterion, I think, as they seem to only do Region 1) with a copy of the screenplay and some loverly postcards...they're doing a bundle deal alongside Performance, of which I have availed my self...

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

13:29 / 29.06.07

Well, I watched this last night and I gotta say, the quality is top notch. I haven't gone through the special features yet, but I read the little booklet that it came with.

The only other time I had seen this film was almost 15 years ago, and it was a pretty ragged VHS copy. Seeing it in the proper aspect ratio, crisp and with clear audio is great.

I can recommend the Criterion collection whole heartedly.

21:26 / 05.07.07

good to see that online petition I signed oh so long ago has finally worked.

I await July 23 (the release day of the UK dvd with screenplay and postcards) with much excitment.

02:16 / 06.07.07

It's on Netflix, too.