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Waking Life

 
  

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Adam Warlock
05:33 / 07.11.01
Saw the film tonight and am struck by the premonition that this will be one of the great underrated movies. Stylistically it seems undeniable that it will be seen as a milestone in American animation, but I worry that the plot/dialogue might easily be dismissed as an academic wank-fest. What do you all think? How weird is it that a film this non-mainstream is playing at my local AMC?
 
 
CameronStewart
15:50 / 07.11.01
I thought it was brilliant, meself , though a bit overwhelming at times - I found myself getting lost in studying the animation or painted backgrounds and losing track of the dialogue (monologues, I should say), or vice versa, I'll have to see it at least a couple more times to get everything out of it.

At the cinema I went to, there were about 6 or 7 walkouts in the first half-hour, probably from people who thought they were going to get Disneyesque singing animals or a repeat of the stoner humour of DAZED & CONFUSED.

I don't really think that it's a "milestone" in animation, though. There's really nothing tremendously revolutionary about the technique.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
14:22 / 19.11.01
I finally got in to see Waking Life this weekend. I’ve enjoyed other stuff Linkletter did (Slackers, Dazed and Confused), but this movie felt like a major step forward for him. I want you all to go see it so we can discuss it.

It’s a smart movie with a lot to say. Most folks on this board will relate to the film’s philosophy. Oh, and the animation is gorgeous. Take appropriate chemical steps before viewing.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
21:12 / 09.12.01
Anyone seen this flick? Director of Slacker shoots live-action film and then goes Mac-crazy, rotoscope-stylee on it. Result appears to me (I saw a short for it the other day) to be trippy as hell, but good.

Anyone got any info? Thoughts? Did it suck? Was it good? What? Animation without Disneyfication - is this gonna be the film version of Jimmy Corrigan?

Related: info on animation, trailer, upcomingmovies.com page.
 
 
CameronStewart
12:46 / 10.12.01
I thought it was fascinating, if a bit overwhelming - at times I was trying to pay attention to the animation techniques and lost track of the dialogue, or was listening to the dialogue and missing the subtleties of the artwork. Definitely requires a second viewing.

There were about a dozen walkouts at the screening I attended - people who no doubt thought they were either going to get Disney singing animals, or a repeat of the stoner humour of Dazed And Confused...

A very interesting film.
 
 
ill tonic
01:29 / 19.01.02
I liked it - although not as much as i thought I would. I also felt there were moments when i was paying too much attention to the animation and was missing out on the dialogue ... definately one you can watch a couple times without it losing anything.

The movie was cheapo to make - and I agree with Linkletter that it is going to revolutionize the animation industry (ie. putting animation in the hands of the indy film maker). I perdict there will be a ton of Rotoscoped movies coming out after this one .... i just hope they not retreads of Waking Life.

(All through the movie I was imagining a Tarantino style flick done with this new technology -- i'd definately pay to see that)
 
 
ill tonic
01:30 / 19.01.02
Oh yeah - I forgot - get stoned for this one.
 
 
videodrome
13:12 / 19.01.02
Hated it. Sucked sucked sucked. But you knew that, Roth

It's a mess of midlessly portrayed babbling elementary psych, with a vague but empty stab at linkage vis a vis portrayal of the dreamstate. I haven't seen a depiction of 'dream' this lame since the advent of 'Dreamscape' - and at least that has Jerry Horne in it. If I was in this kid's dream, I'd be desperate to wake, myself. Everything said in the film is so basic, so utterly obvious that you'd think you were watching an animated pitch - 'OK, so here's all the stuff that people know, now we're jumping off from there.' But no.

That said, the animation is pretty nice, with scenes that appraoch transcendent, visually. The music is also great and does a much better job of cohering the film than does any part of Linklater's effort. But as I've said in a nother forum, I'd rather watch the Beastie Boys video that uses the same animation technique.

And sadly, no - this is no animated Jimmy Corrigan - it's got none of the human qualities that Chris Ware's poorest work has.

um, did I miss anything?
 
 
Rage
22:49 / 06.02.02
Everyone is telling me to see this movie. The question is, should I wait until I score some cid to view it?
 
 
Rage
22:49 / 06.02.02
Everyone is telling me to see this movie. The question is, should I wait until I score some cid to view it?
 
 
—| x |—
05:01 / 07.02.02
I dunno' Rage.

This movie is gReAt. Kinda' like Slacker (also v. good), but with a main character. Real nice visuals (the animation really adds to the depth of the film), so hallucinogens would probably be sweet for it, but heavy dialogue, so perhaps that might be a downside? I imagine it depends on you...

I've seen it twice though (second time was even better, straight both times & still left feelin’ buzzed): good for all those dreamers out there--there's not many left!
 
 
—| x |—
05:01 / 07.02.02
I dunno' Rage.

This movie is gReAt. Kinda' like Slacker (also v. good), but with a main character. Real nice visuals (the animation really adds to the depth of the film), so hallucinogens would probably be sweet for it, but heavy dialogue, so perhaps that might be a downside? I imagine it depends on you...

I've seen it twice though (second time was even better, straight both times & still left feelin’ buzzed): good for all those dreamers out there--there's not many left!
 
 
grant
16:02 / 07.02.02
In answer to Rage's question (here), I'd go see it straight.
It's trippy enough on its own - and all its flaws and strengths come from that.
It really is a lot like a dream, as boring and wonderful as dreams are.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
14:31 / 12.06.02
*ba-da-bump*

There are sometimes discussions here of movies that are "Invisible". Well, after having seen this movie twice (and loving it enough to buy it), I have to say that this is the single most "Invisible" movie I've seen. I don't want to say too much about it, but its underlying themes seem, to me, to be very similar to those in The Invisibles. It took a second viewing for me to realize that there was more going on in the film than a series of philosophical monologues w/in an extended dream.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
17:45 / 12.06.02
Waking Life has become one of my favorite films--I’ve even bought the DVD for the commentary. It seems that the film’s focus and structure were Linkletter’s way of changing rotoscoping’s greatest limitation (animating moving perspectives is extremely labor-intensive) into an advantage. Limited to single camera angles, Linkletter dwells on each character, creating for me a sense of intimacy and heightened awareness. He also juxtaposes scenes in such a way that each monologue serves as a commentary on previous one without being too obvious about it. Certainly it’s not a film for everyone’s taste, but I thing everyone should be able to recognize the film’s ingenuity.

The most delightful thing about Waking Life for me is how the movie seems to invite us into a dialogue. The long drifting silences between ideas give us time to form our own ideas in response to the characters’ ideas. The whole thing feels like one of those wonderful conversations you have in the park across from the campus bar at 5 in the morning.
 
 
cusm
18:07 / 12.06.02
I liked it, and have the DVD on order. I didn't get to listen to the commentary when I rented it, so I'm looking forward to that.

The movie really isn't about the animation at all. People sometimes think just because a movie is animated that that's important somehow. This movie is all about the philosophical comments the different voices offer. The animation is just a gimmik to give it some life, as the film would be a lot more tedious to watch without the entertaining dreamy hallucinations that go along with the various rants. Even the larger arc of the comment on dreaming, waking, and death is just another item, though it is used as a part of the media itself. The movie is a collection of ideas. The media is secondary to the content. I like the DVD cause you can flip from one rant to another as discrete scenes, making the movie useful as a reference piece.

Its not really a movie, its a book. Its just presented in the media of an animated movie.
 
 
Cloudhands
18:46 / 12.06.02
Everything said in this film is so basic, so utterly obvious that you'd think you were watching an animated pitch-'Ok, so here's all the stuff that people know, now we're jumping off from there'


The reason this film is full of all the stuff we already 'know' is it's because it's about some of the major philosophical questions, those that interest us, puzzle us, but are ultimately unanswerable. I loved this film, it's intense, I wanted to stop it half way through to think about the ideas. Perhaps it's not particularly well done in places but it's original, I've never seen or heard of a film like it.
 
 
Rage
19:15 / 12.06.02
Best Movie Ever. I ended up seeing it on shrooms. Two weeks later I ended up meeting the guy who did the voice of that crazy ass guy on the bridge. He lives right around me. Couch surfs, actually.

And just because the stuff is so utterly obvious to "us" doesn't mean that the average viewer feels the same way. Elitist fucko.
 
 
cusm
19:23 / 12.06.02
Has anyone heard the commentary track yet? I got the impression that some of the pieces were not so much scripted as outtakes from larger rants the person was worked up into. Or maybe starting with queues like, "talk about transhumanism" and let them go.

That's neat about the couch surfer, Rage.
 
 
Cloudhands
19:24 / 12.06.02
rage - that's what I thought! some of those ideas in the film, personal identity, free will, have been discussed philosophically for centuries, they haven't come up with any answers yet and I certainly haven't! I loved that guy on the bridge, he was so cool.
 
 
videodrome
19:31 / 12.06.02
The reason this film is full of all the stuff we already 'know' is it's because it's about some of the major philosophical questions, those that interest us, puzzle us, but are ultimately unanswerable.

Well, it recites the questions, like a schoolchild, and then fails utterly to to anything other than drool as it vainly attempts to begin to formulate the most rudimentary approach to them. It's approach is certainly original, but that doesn't mean that the content is sublime.

Elitist fucko

Right back at you, babe. But hey, if you want to put yerself among the ranks of the average, please do so with my encouragement. I don't recall saying 'us' anywhere in my post.
 
 
Cloudhands
19:41 / 12.06.02
Well no, but what appeals to me about the film isn't it's intellectual 'greatness', it's more the way it throws a load of ideas together, bang, bang, bang, really fast, I felt quite inspired by it. Having only watched the film once a few months ago I can't comment very accurately on it but I liked the style of the boy who goes round listening has person after person recite their ideas and never replies. I've felt like that at times, being constantly bombarded by other people's thoughts and unable to think your own.
 
 
videodrome
19:58 / 12.06.02
Unfortunately, instead of being inspired, I was just deadened by the film. Rather than heightening the intimacy, the dream/anitmation combination had the opposite effect, leaving me feeling very distanced from what was going on. I never had the sensation of dialogue, rather the desperate wish that most of the speakers would pause and take a breath once and a while. Taking a third of the ideas presented and expanding them would have been far more satisfying to me, but as it stands, I felt very much like Linklater was attempting to use quantity as a cover for lack of ideas and inspiration.
 
 
Cloudhands
20:08 / 12.06.02
I see your point, it doesn't take an awful lot of effort to shove a few monologues together but I liked the effect that had. It made the boy seem lonely, it was his dream yet he was unable to engage with the other characters.
 
 
Rage
16:50 / 13.06.02
"Everything said in the film is so basic, so utterly obvious that you'd think you were watching an animated pitch - 'OK, so here's all the stuff that people know, now we're jumping off from there.' But no."

I simply don't see you saying this elsewhere. "Here's all the stuff that people know?" More like "here's all the stuff that people at this board know." I'm sorry, but if you're gonna call Waking Life basic and utterly obvious- what are you gonna call a movie like My Best Friends Wedding? Or even Vanilla Sky? Like I said, elitist fukoo. I'm sure I could talk about how basic and utterly obvious, say, idealism was at this board- but if I were to go out onto the street and state something like that- half the people would ask me what the fuck idealism was. That's right. There are tons of people in this world who have no idea what idealism is. Now let's look at what they talked about in Waking Life. Can you honestly tell me that this is "basic" to your average person?
 
 
DuskySally
17:34 / 13.06.02
I feel as if the movie was an invitation. I agree with videodrome that the animation did have a distancing effect on me as an audience member, and the ideas- if not obvious- were atleast easy to grasp, it was still an invitation to go further.Try thinking of the film as a pallette clearer or a scene setter. It puts you in the frame of mind to think, but it's not doing all that high minded advanced stuff for you. In that way, Waking Life is excellent. I'm glad it distances me because I'd rather not be sucked into a movie that had it's own paths for me to go down.

Personally, I don't go around expecting movies to enlighten me. I'd rather do that myself.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
18:53 / 13.06.02
Okay, Videodrome, give us three links to Barbelith postings you’ve composed that you think are obviously more sublime than any point made in Waking Life. After all, if “everything said in the film is so basic, so utterly obvious”, I’m sure your everyday writing will inspire us far more than the film. Right?
 
 
videodrome
19:02 / 13.06.02
Since we're playing the quote-ourselves game, I'll say it again: right back at you, Rage. Do you really think that "if I were to go out onto the street and state something like ["Everything said in the film is so basic, so utterly obvious"]- half the people would ask me what the fuck idealism was?" Really? Elitist fucko, indeed. I'll expand that to: sad, sad, sad. If everyone walking the streets alongside you is, in your view, a child of the world, never had a crisis of purpose or identity, wondered what they should really be doing with themselves or even puzzled over what the hell that huge purple cat they dreamed about as a child was supposed to mean, then you are in a tiny, insular little box.

Yes. Nearly everyone in the world knows what idealism is, what dreams are, and what identity is, and between posession of that knowledge and their own humanity, they have the means to question those concepts. If they don't do so, it's got nothing to do with this film, and at the very least I'm glad Linklater didn't seem to be pandering to people who've never bothered to ask an abstract question in their lives. He's not treating people like the infants your comments make the public out to be. But when he thinks he's being incisive, deep, honest, or whatever, all he's really done is repeat the questions many people have already asked themselves, and that is boring and fruitless.

Linklater has implied that this is the most personal film he's made. "It was an old idea, a personal idea. The experiences of the lead character Wiley -- the series of false awakenings in layered dream states -- actually happened to me twenty years ago...The film represents only a further extension of my previous movies but a more personal and introspective narrative to drive the film's momentum."(1)

So my comments, refined, are that if he's thought about this for years and Waking Life is as far as he's gone, or had the balls to go, then I am underwhelmed and find the experience to be a waste of time, a thing that deadens me to the very ideas he's trying to stimulate. If it works for you, great - Linklater didn't completely waste his time. To me, the film was like a witless high school teacher who effects nothing but disintrest in the subject at hand and I cannot recommend the film to anyone on the basis of content.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
19:07 / 13.06.02
i liked it.

but i wish he would have given it at least some narrative shape. and, yeah, i appreciate then maybe it wouldn't have been so dreamy - but upping the entertainment factor enough to take the strain off the dialogue alone might have helped reach out beyond people who dig a good headfuck anyhow. in the screening we attended, about a third of the (tiny) audience shuffled out sooner or later - mostly sooner. it was frustrating. i wish he'd done more to draw them in...

also: there was that hint that 'he still hadn't met himself' that had me psyched for a trippy, final self-analysis. that didn't come. which i thought was a shame.
 
 
videodrome
19:56 / 13.06.02
Okay, Videodrome, give us three links to Barbelith postings you’ve composed that you think are obviously more sublime than any point made in Waking Life. After all, if “everything said in the film is so basic, so utterly obvious”, I’m sure your everyday writing will inspire us far more than the film. Right?

A remarkable question, Chuckling Duck. Are you perhaps a Republican, a member of the Conservative Right, or mayhap one of Senator Joseph McCarthy's anti-communist judges-in-pocket, hm? A quick scan of the text above reveals that this is a conversation about the effectiveness of the film Waking Life vis a vis its approach to subject matter, ie "Is It Any Good?" not an investigation into various Barbelith members' accredation in philosohpy. In that context, your question is as germane as an exploration of the colorfastness of Red Dye #9, or, not at all. Care to come back into the fold and talk about the film?
 
 
Chuckling Duck
21:02 / 13.06.02
Oh, I'm all three. I'm also one of the Nurenburg judges, a Neilson family member, and the bastard who gave you an F on your creative writing assignment. But enough about me.

Viddie, your main criticism of the film isn't "I didn't like it" or "the jumpy perspective nauseated me" or "Linkletter fails to live up to his own ideals of cinema verite". You're not even leveling a criticism at any particular idea or ideas expressed in the film. You're saying that every idea expressed in the movie is utterly trite and pedestrian.

To which I say, hey, that's your opinion. But if you want us to think your judgement is anything other than the brighter-than-thou spouting of an egomaniac, you should present us with some kind of evidence that your ordinary level of discourse is indeed above what Linkletter acheives in “Waking Life”.

Instead of being offended by my little challenge, why not take it as an opportunity to share some of your best writing with an interested audience? I promise not to judge it as harshly as you have this film.

But perhaps we’re comparing apples and oranges. We shouldn’t compare Waking Life to Barbeposts, but to other films of a similar contemplative nature. Unfortunately, I’m stuck for movies to compare it to--Fast, Cheap and Out of Control, maybe? I can’t really think of any that fit. Perhaps we can all at least concede that Linketter has done something remarkably original.
 
 
videodrome
21:35 / 13.06.02
Alright, my reply to Rage might've cleared this up, but let me clarify, again. Reading my first post I can see how you'd have come to this conclusion. The ideas in WL are not pointless, and are very much worth considering, but I don't think Linklater's done anything at all with the material. So he's tried an original thing, and ended up with a failure, albeit an original one. Easy enough?

My intent was not to belittle the questions raised, but the methods of doing so - as I see it, Linklater has merely gone and repeated what I encountered in my first Psych class. In a film about dream and exploration of self, etc, I still think that the ideas presented are basic, elemetary, obvious. That does not mean they're "trite" - that's your word, not mine.
 
 
gentleman loser
21:13 / 22.06.02
videodrome:

Linklater has merely gone and repeated what I encountered in my first Psych class. In a film about dream and exploration of self, etc, I still think that the ideas presented are basic, elemetary, obvious.

Um, when people ask me what I think of Waking Life I have two answers:

If you like Linklater's earlier stuff, you'll love it.

If you don't like Linklater's earlier stuff, you'll hate it.

(BTW, "Linkletter" is a game show host, not a director.)

I had to school someone on another message board by asking if they've seen Slacker and Before Sunrise and why they should be surpised that they hated it if they had seen either of those movies beforehand. On the other hand, just because I love his stuff doesn't mean that other people have to.
 
 
netbanshee
06:02 / 23.06.02
I only got to catch a little bit of it and (so far) I wasn't blown away by the content but enjoyed the visuals somewhat. I ideas circulating in the language were nice to hear but didn't really inspire me or cause me to have an epiphany of any sort. I will however go and see it again when someone I know is kicking around the DVD...
 
 
Jack Fear
12:51 / 07.08.02
See, now I hated Slacker—turned it off after 38 minutes, and I never turn off movies—but having finally caught Waking Life on tape, I thought it was a lot better. Far from perfect—ultimately (in my opinion) unsuccessful, in fact, but a fascinating experiment.

Consistently beautiful to look at. I loved the way the animation would change styles from shot to shot—as opposed to the slightly sterile consistency of a Disney film: I could really sense/feel the different hands of the different animators at work. It felt like a jam session: animation jam, trading shots the way musicians trade fours.

But the technique's potential was underutilized, I felt. There were a few spots where characters morphed and backgrounds shifted in accord with the stories they were telling, but they seemed too few and too far between. Too much of the film, frankly, felt like an animated version of Slacker.

But it undercut one of its own key philosophies by being as moving as it was. In a wink to the audience, Linklater provides a self-serving argument and defense of his own technique, in the conversation (in a film-within-a-film, no less) about "the Holy Moment" and Barzun's theories of cinema—but for all his assertions that it's a lie and a cheat to impose a narrative onto a film, I think the reason this film did work as well as it did (better than Slacker worked, anyway) is because it did have a narrative plot, slight though it was: Wiley Wiggins is dead and doesn't know it, and slowly comes to that realization, allowing him to let go of the illusion of life.

So the film itself is a refutation of Barzun's (and Linklater's) argument, simply because it is a narrative film.

Question: does anyone think that any of the scenes of the film are meant to take place in the objective/consensus reality—that is, in the waking world? Or is the whole film a dreamscape?

The early scene where Wiley is struck by the car—is this "real"? Is this how Wiley died? Or is it simply a reminder—an afterimage of the event, recontextualized into the dream-state? The surreal element of the note in the street ("Look to your right") seems to indicate the latter—that this is his subconscious (or the world-soul, or God) trying to clue him in that he's dead.

If this is the case, then it's a another wink to the audience—Richard Linklater himself is the guy in the car who directs Wiley to that specific address where he run down, and later reappears to tell Wiley that life is a continuous rejection of God's invitation to give up the illusion, deconstruct the ego, and become one with all—and that death is the process of going from "No" to "Yes."

Shortly afterwards, having heard this, Wiley ascends, having (it seems to me) made his peace, had his breakthrough, and said Yes.

The filmmaker casts himself as a God-figure, nudging Wiley towards both his physical death and his eventual passage beyond death, engineering all the events. And of course as a writer director, that's exactly what he's done.
 
  

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