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Ali!!! (+ Michael Mann)

The Knowledge +1

18:24 / 07.12.01

Everyone be talking about Lord Of The Rings but what about Michael Mann, the greates director of all time, and his latest film? I CAN'T WAIT!

I love Heat, it's my favourite film, and I love Last Of The Mohicans and The Insider. All sleek and epic and why I want to make films for a living.

23:21 / 07.12.01

Pity ALI looks like shit, then, hm?

Genius thinking: Will Smith's the biggest black star in Hollywood--so what if he looks nothing like Ali, sounds nothing like Ali, moves nothing like Ali... GET ME WILL SMITH!

00:16 / 08.12.01

I dunno, I have faith - I've never seen a Mann film that I haven't enjoyed (except maybe Heat). I think he's a very good director.

01:30 / 08.12.01

He'd have to be God Almighty to make me believe in Will Smith as Muhammad Ali. The body type is just all wrong, man

02:00 / 08.12.01

I don't know what to expect. There's no doubt that Mann is a talented guy; The Insider is a good movie (it would have been better without Pacino), Mohicans too, etc. But I can't help feeling that this will probably be an oscar-oriented flick...Think about it; casting a major star to play a dramatic role (VERY oscar) to make a biopic (VERY oscar), settled in the past (VERY oscar if it really is, although I'm not sure of this one), about an american icon (VERY oscar)...I don't know, Mann's very talented and he sure knows how to tell a story; let's just hope that he won't fall to oscar ambitions.

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: [N.O.B.O.D.Y.] -Thank You C.A.B.J.- ]

The Knowledge +1

10:05 / 08.12.01

Nope, it's being released just after the time it needs to be released for the next oscars, and trends tend to suggest it won't therefore get a look in in 2003.

Will Smith is a rapper, so he will be fine with Ali's dialouge. I do have my doubts about his acting ability though, but I trust in Mann, he managed to get good performances out of Russell Crowe and James Cann, something that other directors have failed miserably to do.

But one things for sure - The production and directing will be top-notch.

How can anyone not like Heat? Sure it's a bit long but it's a fucking EPIC film for Christs sake.

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: The Knowledge +1 ]

Jack The Bodiless

11:15 / 08.12.01

I also like Heat, but I can see why others wouldn't. It's very flashy, and the Pacino/De Niro thing was handled like a gimmick, the two of them coming across like WWF wrestlers ("Brother... you are goin' down"... good grief...) heading for their PPV showdown. But it does get a good performance out of Val Kilmer. Which is a rarity.

What about Manhunter? The best Thomas Harris adaptation by several leagues. Brian Cox as Lector actually acts like he could have been a psychiatrist... Can you imagine Hopkins' Lector giving you therapy?

13:07 / 08.12.01

>>>How can anyone not like Heat? Sure it's a bit long but it's a fucking EPIC film for Christs sake.<<<

It's not that it's a bad film, necessarily, but I just find it incredibly slow and unengaging. It's about three-quarters of an hour too long. I also thought that, after all the hype about "DeNiro and Pacino, together again for the first time!" their one scene together was pretty disappointing. (A friend of mine is still demanding convincing evidence that they were even in that coffee shop together - if you look there's no two-shots in which you can clearly see them both. He reckons each actor shot the scene independently and it was edited together afterwards, which is why it's so flat).

Interestingly, at the time of Heat's release, Mann was getting all sorts of praise for Heat being "a startlingly oringinal masterpiece" and so on. Mann was pretty tight-lipped about the fact that Heat is an almost shot-for-shot remake of an earlier film of his, a TV movie-of-the-week called L.A. Takedown...

Oh, and yeah, Manhunter is far and away the best Harris adaptation. I like Silence of The Lambs, despised Hannibal. Hopkins plays Lecter as a cartoonish supervillain, but Cox's Lecter is uncomfortably convincing...

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]

The Knowledge +1

15:55 / 08.12.01

Forgot about Kilmer and Manhunter. Embarassed now.

Cameron, there's plenty of two-shots of the actors. They shot that scene together three times, and ended up using the first take.

16:45 / 08.12.01

>>>Cameron, there's plenty of two-shots of the actors. They shot that scene together three times, and ended up using the first take.<<<

Are you sure? Admittedly I can't remember with perfect precision as I only saw it the once, but I honestly can't recall a two-shot where they're both clearly visible. As I remember it they were all over-the-shoulder shots, for which a stand-in could have been used.

Either way, even if they did do it together, it's still a pretty lackluster scene for two powerhouse actors.

Jack The Bodiless

16:17 / 12.12.01

Yeah... and De Niro couldn't just be a bastard, could he? He had to have the code of honour crap going for him, so that Al would wike him, and so we could have the whole Hong Kong, doves in the air, 'we are but flipsides of the same coin' shite playing in the background. Watch [b]The Killer[/i]. Better movie.

Although: having said that, I loved the bit in the street battle when Tom Sizemore's character tried to use a bystander as a human shield. I sat there, my mouth flopping open slightly foolishly, and thought "But I liked him..." Nicely played. Wish they'd done that with Neil MacAuley (been three years and I still remember the name of De Niro's character. Worzel needs to find a different head...).

Jack The Bodiless

16:18 / 12.12.01

Oh, Mr. Fear, I'f you're still reading this - just saw a picture of Smith as Ali the other day, and he's practically unrecognisable. I'd give him a thumbs up for trying, anyway...

16:23 / 12.12.01

Heat has some of the worst lines in movie history not helped by Al Pacino's bizarre line readings:

"I gotta hold on to my angst. Keeps me sharp."

"Because she had a GRRRRRRE-EEEEAT A-A-A-ASS."

and poor Diane Venora,

"Now I gotta degrade myself with Larry to get closure with you."

[ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Persephone ]

The Knowledge +1

16:55 / 12.12.01

The Knowledge +1

16:56 / 12.12.01

The Knowledge +1

16:57 / 12.12.01

The Knowledge +1

16:59 / 12.12.01

The Knowledge +1

17:00 / 12.12.01

20:03 / 12.12.01

quote:Originally posted by Jack The Bodiless:
[QB]Yeah... and De Niro couldn't just be a bastard, could he? He had to have the code of honour crap going for him, so that Al would wike him, and so we could have the whole Hong Kong, doves in the air, 'we are but flipsides of the same coin' shite playing in the background. Watch [b]The Killer[/i].

Or plum blossoms falling, but I do love that film, forget Kilmer, LA at night is the third character in that movie.

[edited because, even though I program computers for a living, I cannot work HT-Bloody-ML]

[ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Duncan ]

23:47 / 12.12.01

When I first heard Smith was going to be Ali, I was afraid...very afraid. But I have seen how he looks and he put on a lot of weight for the role, plus read an interview with the guy who trained him...the same guy who trained Ali. Add that with the fact that it is Mann directing and that Smith is not doing a title track for the movie and I am actually looking forward to the movie.
One thing I have appreciated in all of Mann's movies is the soundtrack. Very eclectic and moody stuff.
And as for Heat, the Deniro/Pacino scenes, were, in my opinion done fairly well. And yes, never showing both their faces in the same shot was obviously an atempt at "different sides of the same coin." As for the quotes being horrible....I'll agree there were some bad lines, like the "ansgt" one mentioned, but how can you say "Cause she's got a GREAT ASS...and you got your head all the way up it!" is a bad line. That's one of my favorite quotes from any Mann film. And one more defense of Heat: It has a great ensemble of character actors like Wes Studi, Danny Trejo, Hank Azaria, Tom Noonan, and Ted Levine. (heh, the latter two both having played serial killers in Thomas Harris novel based movies)
That being said, The Insider was, without a doubt, Mann's best work to date.

00:47 / 13.12.01

quote:Originally posted by The Knowledge +1:
Nope, it's being released just after the time it needs to be released for the next oscars, and trends tend to suggest it won't therefore get a look in in 2003.
[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: The Knowledge +1 ]

I think I saw the trailer today in E! and it said that it was coming on X-Mas; have they changed the release date?