Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

se7en: I need your help in proving it is shite

yawn - thing's buddy

12:11 / 24.10.01

does anyone else think this film is shite?

I'm having an argument with people at work who think I'm waging holy war by not rating this film.

Thing is, I'm having trouble explaining why this film is so risible.

Can anyone help me out?

[ 24-10-2001: Message edited by: yawn ]

12:28 / 24.10.01

I think it's okay - very good until Doe turns himself in, but I think that's because the essential premise needs to be fudged, as you can't really kill people with wrath or envy. At least, not in the same way as prior to that in the film, which is why suddenly the focus shifts.

So the end is a bit of a let-down for me.

There was a great spoof of the end by Lee and Herring where the box contained a woolly jumper, and as the Pitt character wails about how he hates it, Doe intones seriously "it really suits you, it's your kind of thing".

So now I don't think I could watch the film again without thinking of that...

DBC

Our Lady of The Two Towers

16:24 / 24.10.01

Can't help you there, I think it's a top film.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

18:06 / 24.10.01

I've always thought SEVEN was an absolutely beatuiful, gorgeous, fantasticly filmed and dead boring film. It relies way too much on the shock value of each of the crimes for it's tension. The ending is needlessly protracted and savagely predictable.

That said, it is a pretty film.

Hmmm, on a related note, am I alone in thinking "the Game' was pants?

[ 24-10-2001: Message edited by: kevin ]

20:17 / 24.10.01

I think Se7en is absolutely first-rate.

There's a very good book about it, part of the BFI's Film Classics series, that analyses every aspect of it down to the editing. Very interesting reading.

[ 25-10-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]

Mordant Carnival

20:21 / 24.10.01

You're just P.O.'d coz you didn't suss what was in the box.

23:31 / 24.10.01

i saw bits and always thought it was shit, but that was back when i thought pitt was just a pretty boy w/ no talent, and well he plays a pretty boy that's none to bright in se7en, so when i figured out he was really a good actor i went back and full on watched it and loved it

The Return Of Rothkoid

00:13 / 25.10.01

quote:Originally posted by kevin:
Hmmm, on a related note, am I alone in thinking "the Game' was pants?
Nope. I wanted so very badly for that movie to work - and parts of it did, and I liked the look of it, a lot - but the ending... fuck's sake! Not good.

That said, I still think the flashback shots of the father standing on the top of the mansion were wonderfully effective. But that ending! Gah.

yawn - thing's buddy

07:32 / 25.10.01

well, I'm......

surprised.

I felt seven was dated when it came out (the theme was comic book staple for a long long time, maybe I'd been exposed to such a story just once to often ), the titles gained a lot of credit, but I'd been subjected to the scratched, blurred filter for a long time before seven appeared. The characterisation was shit poor - why should I be arsed that the wife's head is in the box, when we (and brad pitt) hardly knew her.

Pitt, i feel, is a terrible actor. Like a college boy practicing over and over again Jack Nicholson's line from A few Good Men - picture it - Pitt in front of his bedroom mirror - deepening his growl to utter - 'You can't handle the truth' - that is the extent of his range.

that said - thelma and loiuse provided him with context to act well.

Like fight club I reckon se7en (a pointless graphic that does not make sense) is random and incoherent - but as this thread declares - I can't explain why I feel this way.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:06 / 25.10.01

What's wrong with the ending of The Game, Rothkoid? I thought it was brilliant - pretty much what makes the movie, as it turns what would otherwise just be another dark-and-paranoid-and-blah-blah thriller into something far more interesting. Very Invisibles-esque as well, if that isn't too cliched and wanky a thing to say around here...

The Return Of Rothkoid

08:51 / 25.10.01

Fly; been a long time since I watched the film - I saw it on a preview tape when it went to video, initially - so I may be a sketchy on details. But the whole <spoilers> "Hey! It's just a game! But you might've grown a bit, and hey, you DID get that nifty t-shirt. Oh, and by the way, you're paying for it!" </spoilers> thing just irritated me. It seemed too nice, too tidy. Yeah, everything being fucked would be just as tidy, but I felt it would've been a bit more successful. Bear in mind that my paranoiac film intake had been pretty low at this point, so I may be a little more blasé about it now.

Then again, I was a little disappointed with some of The Invisibles, too. And I thought that Illuminatus! was a bit wank, also, so it could _just_ be me. Hmm.

10:12 / 25.10.01

Ahh, Se7en. Explain the following to me please.

Morgan Freeman gets the shreds from Gluttony's stomach and returns to the scene to try and discover their significance. We see a closed door, sealed with some 'Crime scene. Do not enter' tape. A knife slides through the doorframe and slices the tape open. Freeman walks in.

Why the fuck have they sealed the door from the inside?

12:28 / 25.10.01

I don't remember that particular continuity flaw (I haven't seen the movie in years) but I'd have to guess: Editing mistake.

I loved Seven. I especially liked how the city itself seemed to be one of the characters. Maybe the most important character.

12:40 / 25.10.01

Maybe they sealed the door from the inside and left by another door. Or the window. As the occupant was dead, and probably no-one else had a key, the police figured that they didn't need to advertise the fact that it was a crime scene on the outside of the door.

Either that, or they shot the continuity girl after the first showing.

09:17 / 26.10.01

Well I don't think as much about se7en after I've seen Fight CLub. It did kind of rely on shock value and sheer grimness, but I still think its a wonderful film.

Kevin spacey does become a lot less interesting though when you see him properly, doing his standard frothing loon. Wonderfully shot though.

And you're wrong about the Game, its a film with micheal douglas that I liked :-) It must be good. I love the ending as the film had me completely confused right up to the end.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

09:17 / 26.10.01

quote:Originally posted by E. Randy Dupre:
Why the fuck have they sealed the door from the inside?

Don't remember that, I always remember him as cutting the tape outside, which I saw as beng equally stupid as they'll now have to send out another policeman to retape it up. Still, you've given me the perfect excuse to watch it tonight to see if you're right.

Graeme McMillan

16:17 / 26.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Mordant Carnival:
You're just P.O.'d coz you didn't suss what was in the box.

I thought it was his dead wife's womb, complete with unborn baby.

I still think that would've been better. But then, that's just me.

Mordant Carnival

16:58 / 26.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Guy Grand:
I thought it was his dead wife's womb, complete with unborn baby.

I still think that would've been better. But then, that's just me.

We can only hope and pray it's just you.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

20:01 / 26.10.01

actaully as disturbing as the fil was up till then, i expected a fetus as well...

20:07 / 26.10.01

You lot do know that one of the key scenes was cut from the theatrical release, right? Remember how Pitt's residence would shake and rattle when the trains passed? That was foreshadowing how Paltrow would die: Spacey burst in as a train was going past and nobody could hear her scream. After they finished filming, they realized, "Wait a minute, if we show Spacey attacking Pitt's wife, the ending won't be a surprise!" So they cut it.

It's amazing that they had to actually film the movie before realzing the script didn't work. All Se7en had going for it was Freeman and ambience; the plot was clunky and Spacey's talents were wasted.

17:16 / 27.10.01

I'm probably alone on this one, but I thought the beginning and middle of se7en were boring as hell. It seemed like just another average-psychopath-killer-movie, at that point. Only when the car scene with Spacey, Pitt, and Freeman took place did I take an interest. I thought that car scene was classic. What wonderful dialogue. I couldn't stop laughing. The end was pretty cool, in my opinion, even though the last two sins were easy to perdict. How often in a movie does the "bad guy" win? I thought this was great.

I think the end was great, but that the rest of it sucked.

That's just me.

23:31 / 27.10.01

Looks gorgeous. Means shite. Ultimately it presents a confused, neomedieval view of the human condition. The Spacey character is given no motivation for killing people. Why, dunno, he just does. Apart from Paltrow, do we know anything about his victims? No they're just psycho fodder. Why do the characters suffer? Dunno, they just do. Spacey's a Biblical curse or a demon. As a film, it has nothing interesting to say about evil, sin, death, morality, humanity, pain, etc. It's empty.

But hey, great use of colour filters.

23:31 / 27.10.01

Was it filters or film processing that did it?

I quite like it. It looks good, it feels good, it manages to try the whole modern-noir thing without actually spoiling it. Possibly a little heavyhanded towards the end, and though the bad guy ostensibly "wins", I'd say it's a nice open ending.

The title design did kind of shape title design a bit TOO much after it though... enough with the juddery words already!

And yes, the Lee and Herring jumper skit is excellent.

23:01 / 28.10.01

I didn't like it either, but the line "You're not a messiah, you're a movie of the week" is just fantastic - arrrrr, i wish i wrote it.

02:27 / 29.10.01

>>>You lot do know that one of the key scenes was cut from the theatrical release, right? Remember how Pitt's residence would shake and rattle when the trains passed? That was foreshadowing how Paltrow would die: Spacey burst in as a train was going past and nobody could hear her scream. After they finished filming, they realized, "Wait a minute, if we show Spacey attacking Pitt's wife, the ending won't be a surprise!" So they cut it.<<<

Can I ask where you heard this? Because in all of the articles and books I've read about the film, all of the interviews I've read with Walker and Fincher, and listening to each of the 4 seperate commentary tracks on the DVD, I've never once heard this mentioned before.

I'm not doubting you, necessarily, I'm just curious why it's new to me.

02:32 / 29.10.01

>>But hey, great use of colour filters. <<<
>>>Was it filters or film processing that did it?<<<

If I recall correctly it's something to do with leaving the silver nitrate on the negatives when they were developed.

Interestingly, for the recent "special edition" DVD the film was digitally remastered and colour-corrected via computers. There's a bit on the disc that shows a before-and-after comparison and the difference is staggering. The climax in the desert has been drained of natural colour and is now all rust-brown and orange.

Looks great, though I don't like this recent trend of directors going back and "fixing" work that they've already completed - leave it behind you and save the tricks for the next film you do...

00:05 / 31.10.01

Hmm. You know, as I was typing my last post, I was thinking, "Is this bullshit?" I heard it from a guy who was a master storyteller -- or anecdoteteller, I guess -- but who offered no corroborating evidence or credibility.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

15:48 / 22.05.02

The other interesting aspect of the DVD was the storyboarded ending, which was never shot, in which Morgan Freeman's character executes John Doe in order to prevent his partner from doing it.

I've always been frustrated by the ending we saw in the cinema, which strikes me as tonally appropriate, but utterly unconvincing.

I was told last night that this storyboarded ending was only ever used to decoy the studio away from the real ending, which is the one they shot. Anyone know if that's accurate?