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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Westerns

00:12 / 19.10.01

Lord help me sumpin' fierce, but I love 'em. I just got done watching "South of Heaven, West of Hell" yet again. Fantastic performances by everyone, especially cult actors Paul "Pee Wee Herman" Reubens & Bud Cort (most famous for being Harold in the sublime "Harold & Maude"). I'm sure this topic has been thrashed about on this board many a time in the past, but, dangnabbit, I's a resserectin' the damn topic like our Lord done to his ol' pal, Lazarus. Damn straight, I is.

So, what Westerns do y'all dig?

Regrettable Juvenilia

00:12 / 19.10.01

"Ain't we gonna bury these guys?"

<spit>

"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms."

The Outlaw Josey Wales is possibly my favourite Western. That, or any of the Dollars films, which get better as they go along (although if I had to go for one I think it might be A Few Dollars More, which lacks The Good, The Bad and The Ugly's scope and twistiness but does have a weirdy druggy bit in the middle and one of the best climatic confrontations *ever* (involving a child's music box). Great.

Also worth mentioning are Django (what's he got in that coffin? ohhhhh...), the incredibly nightmarish and amoral High Plains Drifter, and two of John Wayne's best, Rio Bravo and El Dorado (they're very, very similar and I get confused).

Oh, and The Wild Bunch.

[ 19-10-2001: Message edited by: Flyboy ]

Fengs for the Memory

11:11 / 19.10.01

Once upon a time in the west.
Really for that static, stately opening waiting for the train, just seems to go on forever. The more I see it the better it gets.
The Wild Bunch, and A man called horse.

11:32 / 19.10.01

All the aforementioned, especially the Spaghetti's.

One of my favourite Westerns, which only ever seems to get mentioned by poncy critics, is Red River. Some seriously edgy subtexts and John Wayne making a terrifying transformation from wise father figure to obsessive villian in about 45 minutes.

11:36 / 19.10.01

Oh, and for my money, one of the coolest scenes ever in a motion picture is the bit in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly;

scene opens on Clint sitting in a ruined building stroking a kitten.

"Every gun makes it's own tune ... perfect timing, little one."

Pans out showing ruined town, scene ends.

12:04 / 19.10.01

Westerns rule.

I second High Plains Drifter. I also love Unforgiven (you should hear Parliament of Fools preaching as to why Eastwood is alike unto God). Flyboy’s covered the former (apart from mentioning that scene), the latter has had so much said about it as to be hardly worth going into. One thing I will say: both films are notable for the absence of a shaving scene (a staple of pretty much ninety percent of Westerns, very symbolic).

My favourite is the first Lonesome Dove mini-series. Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Duvall give career best performances (in Jones’ case this doesn’t seem to be saying much, but he is magnificent), it has an exhaustive and cannily assembled supporting cast, and a massive scope. Soundtrack rules, too. Fucker to find though, from what I remember (I think you can pick up the series – three videos – for less than a tenner).

12:04 / 19.10.01

The recent Tears Of The Black Tiger has to be one of my favourites, probably because it's still fresh in my mind. Its funny, romantic, and has great over-the-top Savini style gore.
The tunes rock too!

12:15 / 19.10.01

Yeah, the Western parts of that film are absolutely hysterical .. wasn't quite so sure about the melo-drama angle..

quote:Originally posted by expressionless:

One thing I will say: both films are notable for the absence of a shaving scene (a staple of pretty much ninety percent of Westerns, very symbolic).

But, High Plains Drifter does have a shaving scene, surely!

I remember, cos he was halfway through being shaved when he got involved in the film's first shootout, and I was really concerned as to whether he finished his shave or not..

(Unless I'm confusing it with a different Western..)

Jack The Bodiless

15:50 / 19.10.01

I think he's right, boy. You owe me a pint.

Let's not forget The Searchers, John Wayne's best movie... or The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, in which Jimmy Stevart shows the Duke how to act. Then there's Shenandoah, a gorgeous Civil War western, also staring the incomparable Stewart...

...and The Magnificent Seven. That score! That cast! "We deal in lead, friend..."

16:11 / 19.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:
All the aforementioned, especially the Spaghetti's.

One of my favourite Westerns, which only ever seems to get mentioned by poncy critics, is Red River. Some seriously edgy subtexts and John Wayne making a terrifying transformation from wise father figure to obsessive villian in about 45 minutes.

And one of the worst endings to a film ever.

quote:The end of Red River
<giggle> Hehe. Look at that. All friends again. Ain't it sweet?

16:15 / 19.10.01

Oh, god, The Wild Bunch again and again and again. One of my favourite films ever, it's just so GOOD on every count. And so perfectly anti-western, unlike Unforgiven, which laboured the point that IT WAS DIFFERENT a bit too hard.

Great performances, great direction, great action... and that defiant look on Holden, Borgnine and Oates' faces as they go out.

I also have a real soft spot for the psuedoWestern that is Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Apart from the STUPID bike sequence, and some of the Etta subplots, it's great fun and a good movie.

And then what eveyrone said. Oh, and maybe Death of a Gunfighter.

16:17 / 19.10.01

Now I do love Red River.

Despite John Wayne's horrifying soliloquy as they start up the cattle drive: "BEEF! BEEF TO MAKE THE COUNTRY STRONG..."

Also the two cowboys, Buster and Cherry, who keep getting sent out on errands together. "Buster! Cherry! Rustle up some firewood!"

16:22 / 19.10.01

Since everyone has already mentioned most of the good ones, I'll throw my hat in for Eastwood's Hang 'Em High.

It might not even be a very good movie, but for days it had me and my dad lowering our collars and saying "Remember...THIS!?!"

And though it's now a western in the classic sense, I strongly suggest Bad Day at Black Rock. Spencer Tracey as a one armed war vet come to bring justice to some good ol' boys in a town which he can't escape.

16:30 / 19.10.01

Anyone remembers Canaan's Law, the one with Armand Assante playing a blind gunslinger?
It's also known as "Blind Justice" or something equally cheesy.

And then there's My Name's Nobody, pulling together the unlikely couple Henry Fonda/Terence Hill.

01:04 / 05.05.05

*bump, since BGK asked about some in the Deadwood thread*

I want to add my two favorites:

Hombre with Paul Newman and Richard Boone, one of the few Western films i know based on an Elmore Leonard novel and

Missouri Breaks for Brando and Nicholson's interaction if nothing else.

at the scarwash

04:25 / 05.05.05

For the baroque, postmodern Western, Robert Altman's McCabe and Mrs. Miller is gorgeous. Warren Beatty as an alcoholic gambler and pimp who falls for his madam. Somehow he winds up with a reputation as a fierce gunslinger, and has to follow the confines of the genre to their bloody conclusion.

06:44 / 05.05.05

I love westerns. Westerns and war films during the days off, relaxing. All mentioned are great, favourites are the Man with no name trilogy (me and my dad used to watch the Good, the Bad and the Ugly together again and again) and Rio Bravo. Missouri Breaks is quality. I also love Tell Them Valdez is Coming. Bosh, it's another Elmore Leonard translation, with Burt Lancaster - great film, recommend it.

07:48 / 05.05.05

But, High Plains Drifter does have a shaving scene, surely!

I remember, cos he was halfway through being shaved when he got involved in the film's first shootout, and I was really concerned as to whether he finished his shave or not..

Jeez, I'm responding to this a wee while later...

To the best of my memory, Clint is never shaved in High Plains Drifter. He is about to, but is attacked in the tub and never has so much of a whisker removed.

This is signficant because the shaving scene in most Westerns symbolises the outlaw coming back to civilisation from the wilderness and temporarily adopting a form of moral code in service of whatever his mission may be. Clint never allies himself with the townsfolk, he's never on their side.

08:21 / 05.05.05

I can't believe that we've got this far in the thread and nobody has mentioned Young Guns yet. It's plainly one of the best...no, I can't bring myself to say it, even as a joke.

Seriously though, Pale Rider is one of my favourites (the others all having been mentioned above) if only 'cos Clint plays The Preacher which is just so cool.

From the inlay card thingy on an old video I have :

It's a dark film, Eastwood keeping his characters in shadows, his anti-hero often caught between light and darkness, there but never quite visible. Literally summoned by the power of prayer, he is here a more sympathetic figure than the vengeful ghost of High Plains Drifter who brings hell with him, more a righteous avenging angel protecting the innocent than settling old scores. Throughout, the supernatural elements are underplayed: as with the films ecological agenda, deeper interpretation is there if the viewer wants to look for it. If they don't, the film still works as a good old fashioned Western.

Marvellous.

Not in the Face

09:15 / 05.05.05

All the really good ones are taken but I'd like to put in a vote for the endless parade of cowboy films shown on the afternoon's that took up so much of my holidays as a kid.

One film not mentioned so far but worth seeing for cowboy fans is Terror in a Texas Town, if only to answer the eternal question 'harpoon vs gun - which would win?'

Undermining that quite worthy recommendation is my shameful confession of also loving the Quick and the Dead if only because of how far everyone involved hams it up but I'm never quite sure if it was intentional, or if Sam Raimi kept the joke to himself.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:14 / 05.05.05

Leone is the man. Once Upon A Time..., the Man With No Name trilogy...

Maybe I just love Clint (though Bronson rocks in Once....

...and for late-period Clint, you can do a lot worse than The Unforgiven. I love the feel of it, I love Clint's frailty, and most of all I love the way it ploughs through all the moral questions involved in the form and STILL ends up with the "Clint as implacable killing machine" finale.

It's a helluva thing to kill a man...

15:03 / 05.05.05

El Topo.

15:29 / 05.05.05

Pat Garrett and Billy the kid-director's cut though, with Pat's death bookending the whole thing. one of few westerns that grips me real tight all the way through.

Maybe a tad hipsterish, but why has no-one mentioned Dead man? The film's rife with shootin' and a-tootin', and some vague philosophical questions too (not to mention Iggy Pop in a dress)

Mmm?

18:29 / 05.05.05

Good point. A great film that introduced me to Jim Jarmusch. I love that opening sequence on the train and the way it conveys (hilariously, to me) such a long passing of time.
Everybody just looking at each other, the silence saying it all.

19:16 / 05.05.05

I also love Tell Them Valdez is Coming. Bosh, it's another Elmore Leonard translation, with Burt Lancaster - great film, recommend it.

Ooooooo! Thanks Benny.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

20:08 / 09.05.05

It's a shame that the Western is, for all intents and purposes, a dead genre. Sure, one pops up now and then, but it's always pitched to the audience as "not really a western".

One of my favorites not mentioned here is "The Searchers" with John Wayne, directed by Ford...not at all a typical Wayne western, but a movie that deals with obsession, racism, and in the end, casts Wayne as an utterly unlikeable character who performs actions that are considered heroic in most genre westerns. It's also a movie that benefits from being on a big screen much like a Spagetti western, as it uses ALL of the frame both thematically and symbolically. Just an amazing movie that was my favorite of John Ford's movies.

21:54 / 12.02.09

Django Poster

I just saw Django a few weeks ago and it really is an entertaining piece of cinema. I was wondering if you could recommend me some westerns or spaghetti westerns in the same vein.....

Django Trailer

14:38 / 13.02.09

It'd be hard to find one exactly like that one, but it has things in common with most of the Sergio Leone Westerns.

I think either of the ones with Dollars in the name would be good to start.

09:00 / 14.02.09

Nobody's mentioned one of the best recent Westerns - The Assassination of Jessee James.

My thoughts on it here.

15:45 / 17.02.09

COMPANEROS, with DJANGO star Franco Nero and Tomas Milian (another spaghetti staple) is all sorts of awesome. A Swedish arms dealer and a Mexican revolutionary team up against dope-smoking gringo Jack Palance and his wooden hand and pet hawk...and the best Ennio theme song EVAR

SABATA and THE RETURN OF SABATA both star Lee Van Cleef and, again are made of awesome. There's a third film with Yul Brynner, who's just as good but not as, y'know, squinty as Van Cleef.

That's not even getting into SARTANA's many films, and everything that Antonio Margheriti cranked out. All the best stuff is readily available on Regions 1 and 2. Start off with Sergio Leone's Eastwood films, then move on to Sergio Corbucci and Gianfranco Parolini's work. After that they get sort of formulaic.

19:39 / 17.02.09

I second El Topo.

When it comes to 'Spaghetti Westerns' aside from Leone the below summarises my favourites.

I really love the Corbucci that I've seen, obviously Django but The Great Silence is also amazing. Breathtaking cinematography and Klaus Kinski. Bonus points for a western in the snow.

Think i'm going to watch Il Mercenario this weekend to expand my Corbucci knowledge.

I think quite highly of A Bullet For The General as well. It manages to be incredibly political but also very fun. Again Kinski rules.

Lee van Cleef is excellent in The Big Gundown which I watched a reconstruction edit of. This highlighted some of the great sequences missing from other cuts but unfortunately the switching of voices is quite jarring.
Fantastic score by Morricone ('famously' covered by Zorn).
This film is begging for a Criterion DVD release.

00:40 / 18.02.09

I just did the Dollars trilogy in a day and a half a couple weeks ago. So amazing and even more so where you take into account when they were made. Actually, I don't think - in terms of Westerns - you can go too wrong with any post-Leone Eastwood. Outlaw Josey Wales, High Plains Drifter, Pale Rider... all so badass, all so good.

I have a soft spot for The Quick and Dead, the Sam Raimi flick, and Rio Bravo is marvelous - in part because it fails at its own politics, being the anti-High Noon - and High Noon, because it fails at nothing.

The Villain, with Governor Terminator, is better than it has any right to be, but was out of print for a good while (and may still be). It's a roadrunner/coyote cartoon with cowboys and dynamite and shit.

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid - except for the Raindrops scene - is supremely ace, and again, easy to dismiss because of its popularity and frequency of airing.