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Possible Barbelith Funding Alternatives

 
 
Tom Coates
10:58 / 21.09.01
Ok - this month it looks like the bandwidth and maintenance costs for the site are going to be around $110-120. This is larger than normal, and we all know that. Having said that, as ever, this place seems to be steadily growing in terms of usage, and while this is a peak, it's nevertheless a peak on what appears to be a generally upward trajectory.

Here are the alternatives for hosting at pair.com - who I've been with since the big bandwidth catastrophe at netnation.co.uk (and the horrifying $700 bill, which I'm sure a lot of people remember with 'fondness').

We are currently on the 'webmaster' account which has 400Mb/day traffic allowance for $30 a month. This month it looks like the overall bandwidth we're going to have used is around 600Mb/day. The excess cost is calculated at $0.40 per Mb - with 200Mb of excess, this amounts to $80, which plus the $30 maintenance works out at $110 - which I think is about £80. Not a vast amount of money, but money I don't really have nonetheless.

The options at pair.com are:

1) Developer (500Mb of bandwidth per day at 50$, excess costs are the same so the bill for the extra 100Mb would be $40 - total bill $90).

2) High Volume (1024Mb of bandwidth per day at 130$, excess costs are $0.30 per day, but let's be honest - that's almost twice the bandwidth we're using at the moment, so it doesn't seem like we'd ever get near to it).

3) Quickserve dedicated server ($249/mon) 1024MB/Day Traffic, but our very own server. The advantages with this one are that there is no one else sharing our CGI resources, which means that the board should (shock!) work properly, we shouldn't get quite such regular server errors and there's PLENTY of room for growth (comes with 30 GIG of hard drive space). Plus it comes with 250 separate e-mail mailboxes.

-------------------------------

Now ANY of these is a step in the right direction, but frankly I'm beginning to think that we should move the site to a High Volume account at least - that way we can be certain to have room to move for the foreseeable future.

More information on all of these options can be found on pair.com

Which is of course $130 a month to find.

Now I can set up a Paypal thing that people can sign up to that will take a certain amount of money from their credit card or bank account on a regular basis. Clearly with 130 to find a month, we'd only need 130 of you to agree to pay $1 (net) a month. Which doesn't seem like very much at all, really. Or, of course, we'd only need 65 of you to contribute $2 a month.

Now Paypal take a cut of each transaction, so it's not QUITE as simple or cheap as it might seem - but it's not that bad. I think to receive a payment costs 2.9% + 30¢ and to withdraw it to pay the bills costs an additional $1.50.

People can cancel their subscription at any time. There's loads more information over at paypal.com.

What do people think?
 
 
Tom Coates
10:59 / 21.09.01
Another thing - I could probably work out something with some @barbelith.com e-mail addresses as well. No promises on that though...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:03 / 21.09.01
I'll take a look at paypal.com - so you don't need a credit card, then? I'll happily set a standing order type thing up for $2 a month, or more.
 
 
Doctor Sax
11:04 / 21.09.01
With almost 800 signed up members paypal should, in theory, be a doddle. Although not everyone's going to contribute, I'd have thought a good 200 or so would, making the High Volume account a definite possibility. Count me in for a quid or so, anyway.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
11:36 / 21.09.01
i'm in.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:29 / 21.09.01
Count me in as long as my building society'll let me do it (otherwise I don't mind sending cheques or whatever).
 
 
rizla mission
14:34 / 21.09.01
me too.
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
14:55 / 21.09.01
I'm in.
 
 
The Puck
15:55 / 21.09.01
yep can easily contribute at least a couple of quid, pleese understand that my web fu is quite rudamentry (like my spelling) so step by step instuction using small words and visual aids would be a help (an barb address would be phatt)
 
 
grant
17:11 / 21.09.01
I'm in, but you'll definitely have to buy me dinner.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
18:10 / 21.09.01
Of course, if you charge a subscription, you'd have to put up a porn...excuse me, "erotica" section like Salon.com for all the Premium members.
 
 
Tom Coates
19:34 / 21.09.01
How about 'barbelite's wives (or husbands, or trans-sexual alien love slaves)?

I'm still a bit uncomfortable about this whole subscription thing. It feels a bit like a business. But if I keep it voluntary and everyone feels they're getting their money's worth, that's ok with me...[/LIST]
 
 
Ethan Hawke
20:08 / 21.09.01
quote:trans-sexual alien love slaves

<frat boy> Dude, I'd pay way more than 2 bucks a month for that </frat boy>

Incidentally, isn't this a step in the direction of "micropayments" Scott McCloud advocates in Reinventing Comics?

And I would definitely pony up each month to support the site. Unless I lose my job in the coming global recession.
 
 
Rollo Kim, on location
23:47 / 21.09.01
I'd like to contribute - I've been posting less and less often but I seem to be blogging like my life depends on it.
 
 
netbanshee
00:20 / 22.09.01
One of the few things I'd pay for...count me in...gotta go couch diving...
 
 
Magic Mutley
10:50 / 23.09.01
I'm in...
 
 
The Knowledge +1
12:16 / 23.09.01
Suggestion:

Set it up as a charity contributory thing where people have to contribute a minimum ($1.50) but no maximum. You'll make plenty and as long as you stick it in a kitty and keep us informed there's perhaps an opportunity to pump it into advertising / something else very groovy.

I'm in, put me down for a fiver.
 
 
Mister Snee
03:03 / 24.09.01
Hold on now.

Voluntary donations are all well and good, and I'm down wit' dat, yo. But an actual forced fee, as it were... well... aren't the two most vulgar words in the English language "pay site"?

I'm not saying Barbelith isn't worth well more than $1.50 a month... but what about those of us who don't have a credit card and despise paperwork, or indeed finance in all its ugly guises? What about us?

 
 
Tom Coates
06:07 / 24.09.01
Don't worry - I won't ever (hopefully) make paying for this place obligatory. It's very much going to be a donation towards the running costs.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
19:01 / 25.09.01
I meant pay a minimum if you want to contribute
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:12 / 30.09.01
I fail to see why that would be any better than charging to even view the site. Any kind of compulsory charge would completely go against the point of the Underground.

"Feel free to read the threads, but if you want to make a point you have to pay?" Bad idea.

[ 30-09-2001: Message edited by: E. Randy Dupre ]
 
 
rizla mission
10:42 / 01.10.01
Yeah, NOT COMPULSORY.

But I think we've gathered by now that most of us hopeless posting-every-day addicts are prepared to pay a voluntary fee. Just make a list of all the members who want to contribute and divide the cost between us. And if it's still too much, try and bully more people into paying..

The only problem might be resentment towards any people who posted loads but refused to pay..
 
 
Seth
13:55 / 01.10.01
I would definitely be willing to pay.
 
 
bitchiekittie
16:16 / 01.10.01
even I could afford a dollar, so Im in

though Id like some sugar, please
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:20 / 01.10.01
Again... not everyone has the credit rating required to do a paypal thing... I'm up for paying though... dunno how to do this, but count me in for a tenner... PO box number maybe (dunno if that itself costs money... will try and see if someone who is considered creditworthy will take my cash & forward it.)
 
 
Plasticbag
20:20 / 01.10.01
I'm very keen to make this as automated a process as possible. So if you can't post via Paypal, then don't worry about it. Should desperate times emerge - you will be called!

In the meantime, what I'm planning to do is to send out an e-mail to the whole board talking through the voluntary payment scheme and how it will work. I think I'm going to push for $2.50 a month, which is entirely achievable I think - for a start off period of six months. If we don't get enough people signing up then we might have to think about an alternative amount or scheme, but we'd only need about fifty people to do it to pay for hosting on a different and better account with no subsequent worries about bandwidth (or at least I hope none). If we got a hundred - well great - we could go up to our own barbelith server. I'll probably start offering some @barbelith.com e-mail addresses as well - to some of the people who sign up first at least (if they want them) - but possibly not to everyone.

Does that sound fair?
 
 
Plasticbag
20:22 / 01.10.01
Oh and 1) I won't accept more subscriptions than we need to pay the bills and 2) I might offer those people something extra to make it worth their while. Not sure what yet.

It might just be at-cost rates on cafepress merchandising or something (should I ever get around to doing that stuff, which is, I fear, unlikely.)
 
 
SMS
04:45 / 03.10.01
sounds good to me. e-mail addresses might be good as well.
 
 
Plasticbag
06:05 / 03.10.01
E-mail addresses obviously place more strain on the server, so we don't want to counteract the benefits with much more bandwidth. But having said that... I should think I'd be able to randomly assign e-mail addresses to ten people who subscribed (to start off with) and then extend it to more if the server could handle it...
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
12:35 / 03.10.01
Sounds fine to me.
 
 
gentleman loser
16:08 / 05.10.01
I think it is great if people want to pay.

I'm not, because there is always somewhere else I can go to discuss things for free.

One thing that has not be brought up (to my knowledge) is a limit on the lengths of posts. I can't count all the times that I've seen people cut and paste entire articles for no apparent reason when it would be just as easy to link to them.

Seems this could conserve lots of bandwidth.
 
 
Tom Coates
17:28 / 06.10.01
Yes. That is annoying, it's true. But it can't really be helped. People can't always be looking over their shoulder. Even though I'd like them to a bit.

Don't feel any pressure to contribute if you can't afford it. This is just because some people have asked how they COULD contribute, and it might be a good way to deal with the expansion of the board beyond my realistic ability to pay for it without it being an issue EVERY month...
 
  
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