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eXistenZ

 
 
Ellis
09:10 / 09.09.01
I love this film, I prefer it to the other computer-reality films like The Matrix and Thirteenth Floor (I suspect i am the only one who actually likes the latter).

I thought the idea of anti-VR terrorists was really cool, and one which I have never come across before, although I dont read much sci-fi. Games are evil cause they distort reality, i just find that idea really fascinating.

Is a virtual world where your dreams can come true preferable? Or is the natural world better simply because it is real?
 
 
agapanthus
09:38 / 09.09.01
Ellis, I agree. EXistenZ is a great film, not least for the way that it plays with the fiction/reality opposition: which layer of the stories was the non-vr? I still don't know.
The whole jacking-in issue was something that definitely gave me the creeps, maybe because I can see it coming in the future, although maybe not in my time.
Have you seen "Dead Ringers", "Videodrone", "Crash" ? All great Cronenberg flicks exploring the questions raised by the intermingling of flesh/sex with technology.

As for real/virtual, could you unpack these a little? If virtual = fictional, then I find that the fictional/imaginative often reveals/makes the world(s)come to life for me in a more 'real' fashion.
 
 
Seth
09:46 / 09.09.01
My favourite moment is a snatch of dialogue between Jude Law and Jennifer
Jason-Leigh that runs something like:

“Your game is shafted. I feel lost, trying to determine the rules of existence in a place
where nothing is what it seems, the basis of reality keeps changing, and I’m not even
sure there are rules to begin with. Your game is impossible to market.”

“Why? Everyone’s playing already.”

That gun is so damn cool!

I assume you saw it on the Beeb tonight. Did you catch “Duel” just a couple of hours
before? Great movie.
 
 
Ellis
09:48 / 09.09.01
No I missed that, too busy watching "Lost in Space". Which was pretty poor.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:51 / 09.09.01
Ah, Duel. Wasn't that the father from The Graduate, driving the car?

I kinda like eXistenZ, though the ending seems a little...forced, to me.

And Ellis, I think you are the only one who likes The 13th Floor. I saw it on a transatlantic flight once. I kept falling asleep, and waking up, and still being offended that it was still on. Gah.
 
 
Jack Fear
09:51 / 09.09.01
I wanted to like eXistenZ if only because the critics hated it so, but I couldn't deny the unmistakable truth that it was really, really not very good. Some wonderful ideas--the "realist" movement, as Ellis mentions, the organic guns that avoid metal detectors, the bioports, the biological gamepods--but bungling, ham-fisted execution that pisses away the potential of the ideas.

The "Is it real? is it another level of the game?" that was supposed to be so tense and creepy just didn't work for me at all--because even the segments that were ostensibly "real" seemed so stiff and hokey. Cronenberg is often accused of being cold, but he's gotten some great performances out of his actors before (in The Fly and particularly Dead Ringers), but he was certainly no great director-of-actors here.

And that ending---gahhh!! I saw the first twist coming a mile away... but the last two minutes... gawd. Just terrible. Utterly gratuitous, pointless, senseless, and out-of-character. It pissed me off so much that I couldn't sleep afterwards: I stayed up all night trying to rewrite the ending in my head and thereby salvage the film, but eventually I had to give it up as a lost cause.

A disappointment, more than anything, because the makings of a good film were there, and Cronenberg dropped the ball so badly.
 
 
Seth
09:51 / 09.09.01
I don't know if I missed the point, but I thought that the characters and acting were supposed to be inconsistent and (in places) dire, in order to reinforce the “game loop” concept and Jason-Leigh’s admissions of shoddy programming. I also didn’t think the film intended to be tense or creepy. From reading the interviews around its release, it was supposed to be funny (and it certainly made me laugh).
 
 
moriarty
09:51 / 09.09.01
I am a mad devotee of Cronenberg's films. Seen every one of them, including most of his acting roles, especially Nightbreed and Maniac Mansion, and visited the museum exhibit. Twice. In addition to the fact that I love good Horror films of any kind, I've always adored Cronenberg's films because by-and-large I can visit the filming locations (if anyone is ever in the area, I'll take you on a Dead Zone tour. They shot it about ten minutes away, and it'll creep the fuck out of you).

Yet, I didn't like Existenz.

I can understand that the acting was supposed to be choppy, and the sets were supposed to look fake. So, in a way, it's not really a bad movie. I just find I can't appreciate films that take on a particularly cheap or confusing look just to make a point. Didn't like Natural Born Killers for the same reason. I'm all about vanilla film, I guess.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:51 / 09.09.01
It just all goes to shit in the last half hour, doesn't it? Then it pulls it back a little with that "wasn't that confusing! good job it was just a game (wink, wink)!" stuff and then blows it again, as Jack says, with that cheesy further 'twist'. And it was hard generally to shake that "I'd rather be reading William Gibson" feeling.

Still, the whole sequence with Jennifer Jason Leigh persauding (seducing?) Jude Law to get the socket put it, despite his phobias/revulsion, culminating in the bit where he leans forward and licks her socket (it's all about arseholes, kids)... well, that made it all worthwhile (even cooler was his "it wasn;t me! it was the character!" excuse - do we believe him?).
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:51 / 09.09.01
I just felt it was a bad pastiche of his earlier films. Videodrome with VR, so less original, tech from Naked Lunch... boring.
 
 
Ellis
09:51 / 09.09.01
Fun fact: After the film was made, they had to spend a pretty penny on CGI to remove Jennifer Jason Leighs acne since she had been eating too muvh junk food.


Are video game designers the Ontological Terrorists of tomorrow?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
09:51 / 09.09.01
Didn't like it. The 'reality breaking through into fantasy/fantasy breaking through into reality' plot hinted at near the start would have been much more interesting than the repetative 'this isn't reality, but this is, no this isn't reality but...' plot they went for instead. It ashames me to say this, but even Star Trek TNG did this much better than 'Existenz' did.
Still, Jude Law is always sha- watcheable and Callum Keith Rennie and Christopher Eccleston need to be given much more work, now!
 
 
autopilot disengaged
10:42 / 09.09.01
'eXistenZ' underwhelmed me, but i still quite liked it - as far as i'm concerned, even a second-rate Cronenberg is guaranteed to be 75% more headfuck than almost anything else getting a theatrical release.

best bit for me was where Jude Law is questioning how much control they have over their actions, and Jennifer Jason Leigh says - "There's just enough free will to make it interesting." which i thought was a lot like life.

coming after 'crash', though - which for me showcased a whole new 21st century aesthetic - it was a bit of a comedown.

anyone else heard these rumours his next project may be a biography of the founder of ferrarri? what's that all about?
 
 
The Strobe
13:11 / 09.09.01
quote:Originally posted by autopilot disengaged:
best bit for me was where Jude Law is questioning how much control they have over their actions, and Jennifer Jason Leigh says - "There's just enough free will to make it interesting." which i thought was a lot like life.


I'm sure I could say something here about "shit" and "Sherlock", but I can't quite remember what it is.

I quite liked it, though I loathed the pacing. And to be honest, the fact that eXistenZ the game was SO shit was an irritating giveaway. That said, I enjoyed the ending, if only to see the various actors bloody relieved to lose their shit accents and dialogue.

It felt to me more like a long episode of something like The Outer Limits than an actual film. Even for Cronenberg/scifi film, it was really stretching it for me not to raise an eyebrow earlier on.

But better than I was expecting. Still got Last Detail from that _fab_ night of TV to watch.

And I found myself watching Lost in Space... which was really, really sucky, and yet the production design and CGI were fantastic. Well, I thought so.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:00 / 09.09.01
I quite liked the younger daughter, not in a NONCEPATROLGO! fashion but I thought it a relief they'd found a child actor that you didn't want to punch repeatedly in the head and throw out an airlock. Does she want to go halfway across the galaxy on an adventure? No! She wants to stay and hang out with her friends! Though admiring Matt le Blanc's butt does mean she'll have problems when she grows up.
But I did spend the entire film wondering when it was going to start, the entire thing felt like a prelude, perhaps to a good movie.
 
 
invisible_al
15:17 / 09.09.01
I remember watching this when it came out on video, quite disappointing I remember.

Some of the ideas were really nice, organic technology, reality terrorists and the like but it was actually quite a dull film.

None of the characters ever really gelled for me and the excuse that they were only acting badly because it was a game doesn't really hold up because those sequences were most of the film, and I still had to watch it :-/

It seemed like a re-hash of Videodrome, that handles the whole subject much better, and with better visual look despite being done in the 80's.

All hail the new flesh :-)
 
 
Verbal Kint
17:56 / 09.09.01
While I would watch Jude Law read the phone book on film and be interested, I found this film boring and contrived.

The concept was fascinating, the execution was poor - confusing script, wierd editing, good CG and animatronics (but not great). It seemed to start out as a good idea, and then was beaten down by some odd combination of budget, re-editing for "market appeal", and god knows what else hollywood threw at it.
 
 
The Strobe
17:59 / 09.09.01
No NONECPATROLGO! problems at all with Lacey Chabert. Well, not any more, she being 19 an all.

But yeah, she wasn't irritating, and far less irritating than the Penny of the original series.

Mmmnn....
 
 
Ria
20:21 / 09.09.01
woah ho ho... I hadn't even twigged that the Jude Law I saw in A.I. appeared in eXistenZ until somebody mentioned it for me.

I loved the ending. the plot leading up to it seemed a little obvious. as if Cronenberg had thought that he had made the first-ever film with VR as his subject matter and did not want to confuse us.

IMHO he could have packed it out into a fifty-minute television episode and not have cut out much.
 
 
.
07:16 / 10.09.01
i really like eXistenZ. i think that the dire acting, the dullness of some scenes, combined with the surreality of others, give it that wonderful dreamlike quality, wherein not everything follows on, not everything makes sense. fantastic. love videodrome as well, and naked lunch. that bit in naked lunch where the guy who's talking dialogue gradually goes out of synch with his lips is such a unnerving effect.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:09 / 10.09.01
quote:Originally posted by autopilot disengaged:
anyone else heard these rumours [Cronenberg's] next project may be a biography of the founder of ferrarri? what's that all about?
Wouldn't be surprised. Cronenberg is a nut for sports cars--in fact he's a semi-pro racer.

First learned this fact during the round of interviews he was doing around Crash, and was amused by his vehement insistence that his interest in racing was unrelated to his attraction to the project. It's a whole different thing, he said.

Mm-HMMM.

That bit of the interview (with Terry Gross on NPR's Fresh Air) surprised me a little, as otherwise Cronenberg came off as a very smart, together, uncommonly self-aware sort of fellow.
 
 
CameronStewart
12:35 / 10.09.01
Cronenberg's incredibly-hard-to-find first feature film, Fast Company, is all about professional car racing and is nothing like his later biologically-fixated horror films.

Interesting, quite normal viewing for Cronenberg fans.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
CameronStewart
12:40 / 10.09.01
Ooop, forgot to tell you my eXistenZ story - went to go see the film upon release with a friend. Sat in giant empty cinema, only a handful of people in the audience. Very dodgy looking character chooses a seat right next to mine. film begins, and about 20 minutes in the guy lights up a crack pipe.

The smell made me sick so I had him ejected. Two ushers had to literally pick the guy up out of his chair and drag him out.

I kind of liked the film, but not as much as any of his others.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
Molly Shortcake
16:54 / 10.09.01
I really thought it was a poorly done bore. Videodrome is the same film and it's much, much, better. The part with the chicken bone gun was genious though.

Video game designers are already celebrities, in Japan, anyway.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
16:59 / 10.09.01
Oh yeah, video games/VR don't distort reality, they reveal it for the puppet show it's always been, the one in your head.
 
 
Ria
09:32 / 11.09.01
trivial point perhaps... I wonder if the effect of the ending had to do with seeing it in a theatre versus video which does more closely resemble VR.
 
 
shirleydoe
17:51 / 13.09.01
Speaking as a sexist pig, I'd love Jennifer Jason Leigh with acne. Warts and all.

Such a fool...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
19:07 / 13.09.01
Acne? Hmmmmm. Give me the Mrs. Parker version any day. Rowr.
 
 
Ellis
19:16 / 13.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Rothkoid:
Give me the Mrs. Parker version any day. Rowr.


Indeed.

 
 
The Strobe
19:38 / 13.09.01
Can we extend it to a more general "Jennifer Jason Leigh"?

I mean, so far, the only one I wouldn't specify is the one from Single White Female.

Ouch.
 
 
YNH
22:34 / 13.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Ice Honkey/Turbo Shark:
Video game designers are already celebrities, in Japan, anyway.


You know, in terms of number of articles, Will Wright probably gets as much press as most actors.

I liked parts of the film, and seeing right after watching The Last Temptation of Christ, Gas was incredibly funny, if a bit tedious.
 
  
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