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Good Book, Shit Film?

 
 
Not Here Still
17:19 / 22.08.01
Have recently finished reading Carl Hiaasen's Strip Tease. I loved the book, and remembered there had been a film made of it.
Hurrah, I thought for ten seconds.

However the film was, not to be too rude about it, absolutely shite. All about Demi Moore's tits, if I remember rightly.

What is it about good books becoming crap films? Why does it happen?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
18:00 / 22.08.01
Probably because the freedom to create character and location portraits in your head is taken away from you by the director; you have to go with their vision, rather than your own.

The good thing about shitty films of books is that if you've not read the book, and the film is at least passable, when you read the book, generally it knocks you out even more. Happened for me in Midnight In The Garden Of Good And Evil, certainly - an OK film, but a much, much better book.

And what're you knockin' Striptease for? It has Ving Rhames and Pandora Peaks in it. How can it be bad, the aliens Moore had planted in her chest notwithstanding?
 
 
The Strobe
20:36 / 22.08.01
It can go both ways. And it can go both ways in various methods. Not got much time to expand fully - but I'll give you two examples of good (imho) films of books that do it in different ways.

1): The Hunt for Red October. It's actually very, VERY different to the book. Lots of plot changes.But overall, it's the same thing, same ending, same characters, same idea. Now the book's no work of art, but it's certainly tightly plotted and nice and tense, which is all it set out to be. The film avoids things that might have been harder/more expensive to shoot, and doesn't just replace them, but juggle things around... and it comes out tense and tightly plotted. And Alec Baldwin's rather good.

2):Catch-22. This really surprised me: the film is EXACTLY like the book. It's almost all in there. OK, it was costly, but hell, for me it works.

The thing is, the point about a novel is the length and depth. A movie HAS to condense it.

By contrast, movies based on short stories (cf: Memento, Don't Look Now) work REALLY well. The short story is the PERFECT movie medium - because the director can EXPAND on what he has. That's what directors do: they expand on the script through their use of their actors and cameras, etc. Give a director a screenplay which is condensed from a novel... and he'll have to condense big epic emotions/characters/motives again. And that don't work.

Does that make sense?
 
 
tSuibhne
12:02 / 23.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Paleface:


By contrast, movies based on short stories (cf: Memento, Don't Look Now) work REALLY well. The short story is the PERFECT movie medium - because the director can EXPAND on what he has.


Two words for you: Total Recall. Sorry, had to mention that. Tried not to, and failed.

Course, I've never seen a director fully pull off PKD. In my mind, even Bladerunner, a great film on it's own, can't even begin to stand up to the book.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:12 / 23.08.01
I think, also, that the stature of the book has a big effect on the perceived artistic success of a film. A little-known book may not achieve universal whoops of joy, but it could well engender more than the in-production version of Ulysses might, when it's finally released. I agree, Paleface, that it works both ways - but sometimes I think that people are too proud of their own take on books to permit a revision of same by a filmmaker to take pride of place over their own interpretation.

Could that be the basis for a lot of "movie sucked, but book rocked!" sentiment?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:53 / 23.08.01
"140
posted 23-08-2001 03:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Paleface:

By contrast, movies based on short stories (cf: Memento, Don't Look Now) work REALLY well. The short story is the PERFECT movie medium - because the director can EXPAND on what he has.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two words for you: Total Recall. Sorry, had to mention that. Tried not to, and failed.

Course, I've never seen a director fully pull off PKD. In my mind, even Bladerunner, a great film on it's own, can't even begin to stand up to the book."

Lets also not forgot Screamers
heh
 
 
The Strobe
17:46 / 23.08.01
Fine, also use the example of Johnny Mnemonic whilst your at it.

My point wasn't that all short stories are instantly good films. Just that they lend themselves to being filmed so much more than a novel (or even a series of novels) do.
 
 
tSuibhne
18:29 / 23.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Paleface:
My point wasn't that all short stories are instantly good films. Just that they lend themselves to being filmed so much more than a novel (or even a series of novels) do.


And I was just poking fun

But, it really depends on who wrote the book and who made the movie. Certain writers, like PKD, are probably never going to have a decent film made of their work. There's just an element to their work that can't be captured in film, but is crucial to the work.

Then there are writer's whose novels lend well to movie. Like Fight Club was a great film. And I bet the next movie based on one of Chuck's novels is just as good. (if it gets a decent team working on it) I think, more important to the film's success then if it's a short story or a novel, is the style it was written in, and if the ideas and emotions can be portrayed in a visual fashion.

Some writers should just never see their work on the silver screen.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
07:06 / 24.08.01
Of course, both 'Blade Runner' and 'Total Recall' are crap. But only as adaptations of what Dick wrote, as films in their own right they are pretty good (though the latter does look 80s in a bad way). I think PKD is one of those people who's work is perfectly suited to the medium it's presented in. It's like Morrison, I can't see 'The Invisibles' or 'Flex mentallo' or 'KYB' working as a movie/tv show because a lot of the story relies on the conventions of comics.
 
 
Jamieon
11:24 / 24.08.01
Bladerunner isn't crap at all. It explores the question "what constitutes humanity?" very nicely thank you very much. It's fucking gorgeous looking, huge on atmosphere and practically defined cyberpunk cinema. Sure, it's not the book, but who gives a shit. Judge it on its own merits.

And what about films that piss all over the book? "The Shining" springs to mind.....
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:06 / 24.08.01
Hmmmm... contentious. Both were over-inflated, I thought, though the book was more complete. Kubrick's film felt long, but it also felt patchy as fuck, and pretty badly-acted in places, whereas the book didn't seem so flawed. And hell, I like the film. (Also, though, I don't think King's written as completely effectively since The Shining, either.)

[ 24-08-2001: Message edited by: Rothkoid ]
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:22 / 24.08.01
Runt- Read what i said. As an adaptation of a book BR is crap, because it doesn't do what happens in the book. As a story in it's own right it's great. And 'the Shinning' is a load of month-old donkey cum. How often do I have to tell you people! Mood setting is fine but eventually you get desperate for stuff to happen, and you want his spoon-faced wife and annoying brat to die horribly anyway.
 
 
Lazlo Woodbine [some call me Laz]
13:33 / 24.08.01
Going back to the short story idea, think "Sharshank Redempsion" based on a short story by Steve King, On which it absolutly pisses.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:47 / 24.08.01
quote:Originally posted by The Ungodly Lozt and Found Office:
spoon-faced wife
Dear god. That's the most fitting description of Shelley Duvall I've ever read.

[ 24-08-2001: Message edited by: Rothkoid ]
 
 
Higher than the sun :)
18:03 / 25.08.01
Shawshak Redemtion is the exception that proves the rule. And Fight Club was originlaly a short story idea that CP fleshed out.

Hers to the film of NoLogo
 
 
Johnny Mother
13:24 / 26.08.01
You think Kubricks version is shit? Check out the mini-series version directed by king himself. Makes the original look like Citizen fucking Kane....

Kubrick is well into the old book-adaptation lark and proves that sometimes the film is better than the book e.g

2001: Better than the book
Full Metal Jacket: Fair enough, 'The Short Timers' is better than the film.
Clockwork Orange:People say that the book is superior, but the film is, I believe, better. It ends in a more ambiguous tone than the novel.

But what about films loosely 'based' on books?? Like Conrads 'Heart Of Darkness' and Coppolas 'Apocalypse Now'????? eh??
 
 
Jamieon
14:10 / 26.08.01
quote:Runt- Read what i said. As an adaptation of a book BR is crap, because it doesn't do what happens in the book.

Sorry Loz, I'm guilty of something I really hate: not reading someone else's post properly. I am very sorry, and admit cuntishness. I, cunt.

And I really like "Clockwork Orange" in both of its forms: book and film.

"The Shining"? Say what you like, but I still hold it up as an example of one of the few horror films that are actually frightening. The lurking emptiness of the hotel....Brrr... Gets me every time. Don't go round that corner on your special pedalcar, young cock!

[ 26-08-2001: Message edited by: runt ]
 
 
The Strobe
15:51 / 26.08.01
But, as you should well know, the Shawshank Redemption isn't that good a film. I can understand that it would piss on the story. But it's more flawed than many would admit.
 
 
Dee Vapr
18:18 / 28.08.01
Has anyone seen "Breakfast of Champions?" - Vonnegut's book - laugh out loud funny, poignant, breathtaking cathartic stuff from the man himself.

The film - probably the worst piece of shit I have ever seen in my entire life. Even Albert Finney was shit.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
19:11 / 28.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Dee Vapr:
Even Albert Finney was shit.
Even surpassing his turn as the judge in Roger Waters' Berlin production of The Wall? That's got to be worth seeing.

Who else was in that film? I remember seeing the shorts for it, and thinking "Hmm... could be worth a look." Then again, I also thought that about Cannibal Hookers...
 
 
Dee Vapr
09:32 / 29.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Rothkoid:
[QB]Who else was in that film? I remember seeing the shorts for it, and thinking "Hmm... could be worth a look." [QB]


Sadly, Bruce Willis and Nick Nolte in drag don't even save this piece of shit picture.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
09:32 / 29.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Johnny Mother:
2001: Better than the book


Personally, I think that 2001 is an example of a film and book complementing each other well.
 
 
The Strobe
19:51 / 02.09.01
I thought the film of Breakfast of Champions was FUCKING BRILLIANT.

I haven't read the book though.

I was out with a load of people I didn't know, and we went to nab videos... and one of the other people choosing with me picked it up, _thought_ they'd heard of it, and said it was good. I remember reading about it... and it sounded _interesting_.

And I loved it. No-one else did. OK, it's odd, and a daft idea to film it, but it felt like Vonnegut to me. Very silly, though. And I was slightly pished at the time... but overall, I'd rather watch it than so much other dross, because it made me LAUGH out LOUD. LOL. I sat there, laughing like a loon. Rather good, 3.5 out of 5, if you like.

Eveyrone else hates it and blames me for the choice, because she's their friend, and she's pretty, and I'm only a friend's friend, and I'm ginger.

And I think the last fact had a lot to do with it.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
15:56 / 22.05.02
What is it about good books becoming crap films? Why does it happen?

Frequently, the writer or director fails to isolate what's popular about the story or character, and hence transgresses it. Sometimes, there's just too much story to get it all in.

I always wonder why people don't buy up lousy novels which would make great movies. I assume it must be about studios and production companies not wanting to risk their money on dodgy properties, but...if every damn book made into a film is a bestseller before the movie, that means they're the best of breed. Which means that you've got to get everything right just to be in the same category, and then be the recipient of a miracle (or a moment of genius from all concerned) to make the film better than the book.
 
  
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