BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
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What's the point?

 
 
Tom Coates
08:19 / 22.08.01
Not meant aggressively, but if you had to summarise what the point of barbelith.com was, what would you say? I'm trying to define it in a paragraph, as I think this will help me try to figure out what to do next...
 
 
Not Here Still
16:31 / 22.08.01
God, I thought you'd given up for a moment there Tom - but instead, it's just an exercise in developing the Barbelith brand.

Essentially, I would say the point of Barbelith is to provide a forum for like-minded individuals to discuss their interests and swap information.
(In its purest form, anway)

BTW, what are you thinking of doing next?
 
 
Tom Coates
16:35 / 22.08.01
Not telling.

I need more than that. That description defines pretty much EVERY community site in the world. I need a definition that corresponds to Barbelith alone...
 
 
Dee Vapr
16:41 / 22.08.01
quote:every per-son as beings of sound
to acknowledge their responsibility to uplift the consciousness
of the entire fucking world

- Saul Williams, "Coded Language"


Sorry. I'm half-pissed and this a magnificient line.
 
 
Saint Keggers
00:22 / 23.08.01
How about"A place where invisble mimes go to scream"
 
 
SMS
00:50 / 23.08.01
It is the place where ten page posts are often too interesting not to read. It is a womb (or maybe gathering) for magick, science, politics, philosophy, and life.

Barbelith is the place where the revolution is made sexy.
 
 
the Fool
03:19 / 23.08.01
New thought concepts daily. Revolutionising your belief structures since [so, when did this place start anyway?]...
 
 
01
04:49 / 23.08.01
conciousness upgrade version 5.3
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
04:49 / 23.08.01
"They claim to be anarchists but they just sit around talking about comics and shit."

I had a really good summary of what I thought Barbelith was about once... I posted it on the WEF, I'll see if I can find it...
 
 
Ellis
10:45 / 23.08.01
Barbelith is pretty difficult to define, we're a diverse bunch of people with our own thoughts, feelings, opinions and beliefs united by our desire to explore and understand the world in which we live and change it for the better and take control of our lives by talking about the X Men.

Or something...

[What's next for Barbelith? hmm- Barbelith Review? Weekly columns? Serial stories?)
 
 
reidcourchie
10:59 / 23.08.01
The only Bulletin Board worth getting fired for?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
11:29 / 23.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Ellis:
Barbelith Review?

While the spelling's different, this incurs visions of very regular posters dancing the Can-Can.

And now, you've gone visual.

I think it's the fact that this place either veers towards total seriousness or total fluff that makes it hard to define. On one hand, the internet's finest subcultural debate. On the other, the internet's finest pissing-contest. Sometimes both at once. I can't really think of a snappy tagline that would fit together too well - though Flyboy's is pretty close to the bone...
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:59 / 23.08.01
'The world is my country; to do good my religion.'
Thomas Paine

"The internet my world, Information my religion"
Barbelith
 
 
reidcourchie
14:59 / 23.08.01
Tom can we declare Barbelith an independant country? You know a place at the U.N everything, we could have elections and stuff.
 
 
Not Here Still
17:34 / 23.08.01
Originally posted by Sir Thomas of Coates:

I need more than that. That description defines pretty much EVERY community site in the world.

OK, how about 'a forum for like-minded individuals to discuss their interests and swap information - run by a man who places a rather interesting animation of him singing the Sound of Music on his blog'? (Ahem)

Maybe I was trying too hard to include everybody, as I am wont to do. But I think one of the best tings about Barbelith is its diversity. It brings together disparate strands of the underground and gives them a voice.

Of course, other sites do this as well. Back to square one. What does Barbelith do?

'It' has taught me things, changed my perceptions, exposed me to other people's opinions for good and ill, pointed me towards some good books, music and other cultural artefacts.

It's a place for peer-group assisted evolution.

But aren't all community sites as well?
About the only thing I can think of that seems different to ther sites I've visited (though that ain't many) is that everyone's so damn nice, even when they're shooting you down.

(There are a few honourable exceptions here.)

Of course, you've already got a soundbite -'the home of sub-cultural dissonance.'

But I guess this is not good enough to sell the site to the boys at Time Warner AOL
 
 
YNH
17:41 / 23.08.01
quote:OP by Whiskey Priestess: (with some editing)
[qb]Barbelith is an Oxbridge college Senior Common Room, with the Professors of Literary Theory, Ancient Greek and Social "Science" (sue me) going at each other hammer and tongues over the port and stilton?

In the corner are slumped a couple of old hands, nestled in their favourite armchairs, who occasionally wake with a start to interject. At the door linger a few nervous undergraduates who got the wrong room and are not quite sure of how to proceed.

And over by the drinks table, folks in mob caps and aprons, listen quietly and help themselves to another medicinal dose of single malt...
 
 
Tom Coates
21:30 / 23.08.01
hahah. Can I have some port?
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
15:29 / 24.08.01
I thought that his was the 'home of subcultural dissonence' or something like that?

I think that one of the hard parts of selling this place to people is that there are a few different types of dominant conversation going on here that for some people may be at odds -- for example, some people who just LOVE the revolution/tech/headshop threads may be really put off by all of the people geeking out over the newest issue of X-Men or what's happening on Buffy The Vampire Slayer.

I think it would be wise in any description to emphasize that there are numerous discussion forums here, independent of each other.

I think that it is also necessary to mention Grant Morrisson, as his influences this board in nearly every forum.

The explanation that I've given people in real life about this place is that it's filled with extremely intelligent literate quasi-leftist pseudo-science loving comic books/sci-fi/music gay or 'queterosexual' geeks who are mostly based in the UK and the American coasts.

[ 24-08-2001: Message edited by: FLUX = Negasonic Teenage Warhead ]
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:05 / 24.08.01
"the Barbelith Underground is a doorway into the many facets of people brought together by one mans ramblings. These people moved on to find other commonalities then Grant Morrison, but all agree his influence is greatly felt in every Chaos Magik conversation to discussion of the comparitive length of Wolverines claws over the years"
 
 
Kobol Strom
17:14 / 24.08.01
Barbelith underground is the best escapism on the net,because it's where the interaction of our super-conscious selves is made manifest,coherent and audible.It takes you out of the normal day to day mental ramblings of a world too long asleep.
 
 
rizla mission
12:39 / 26.08.01
"comic books, magic spells, movies, radical politics, random socializing, fortean phenomena, comparative theology, literature, graphic design, deviant sexuality, pop music and indefinable counter-culture freakery all discussed in a 100% guaranteed hip, trendy, sophisticated, open minded and non-threatening environment. Who could resist?"
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
14:27 / 26.08.01
Hmmm. I like that one... except... needs more sex...
 
 
SMS
17:29 / 26.08.01
Jack, are you a hollywood director?

It seems everybody assumes we're trying to sell barbelith to people, but Tom hasn't said that's what he's up to. I do think the underground itself has a bit of an advertisement feel, though.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
22:10 / 26.08.01
Hah! Is the Pope a Hollywood director?!

Punchline make no sense. Jack tired.
 
 
ephemerat
21:19 / 27.08.01
What is the point? What is the point of Barbelith?

This is a question that has been buzzing and arcing around my head continually for days now. I get the feeling that a lot of you may not like my answer. I am going to get shot down for this. But, please, bear with me while I ramble.

In many ways The Invisibles still fundamentally defines and informs the flavour of the place. I mean it bloody well has to as its original inspiration. Which leads me to suspect that Tom may possibly be considering cutting its ties with the now defunct comic. To lead us on a new path of birth and rebirth. And what would we gain and what would we lose by this action?

Did The Invisibles mean anything to you? What did it say and how does that affect the content of the site? For me The Invisibles was a comic that was centred around hope. It was, like Grant, almost unassailably optimistic. Like Terence McKenna's theories it relied on a feeling of an impending armageddon, of an eschaton. And the fact that this apocalypse was sending ripples backwards through time, that 'history is the shockwave of the eschaton' (in McKenna's words) and that those with the capability to do so (whether by trance states or meditation, by prayer or fasting or magic or music or psychedelic states or sunspots or astrology or cultural observation or whatever fucking path suits you) could pick up clues as to the nature of this event, this dwell point, this omega point. And moreover that history moves in cycles, in revolutions so that it becomes evident that this is not an ending, this is a change. And that we, that is, all of us define the nature of that change. It seems to me that the new world was created and the Archon defeated via a huge sea change in culture, by the fusion with the Supercontext, by the redefinition of the concept of self, by the narrative, by words. King Mob's bullet wasn't even a fucking bullet, it was a little flag with the word 'POP' (with all its multi-layered meanings) written on it for fuck's sake! But I'm pointing out the obvious.

Now whatever you think of Morrison or McKenna or Castenata or Dick or Crowley or whoever, what we have here is a very interesting melange. We got the shamans and the chaos magicians and the wiccans and the faithful on The Magick getting down and dirty and dabbling with reality, subjective or not. We got the activists and the sociologists and the social anthropologists and the media buffs picking apart the memes and the movements on The Switchboard. We got the philosophers and the political theorists and the social scientists and the lit crits ripping at the very foundations of language and perception on The Head Shop. And we got those wacky science guys in The Laboratory showing us the possibility that the brain can make changes on the quantum level, that because quantum particles have an indeterminate state until trapped for observation that we may well live in a multiverse, that we only see one observable state of reality at a time, that the very foundations of physics, those Universal Constants may have fucking well changed, that mathematics has huge holes in it, unknowable values that are unknowable because of the very nature of mathematics itself, that reality is a four dimensional crystal growing in a five dimensional liquid...

And we mix it all with a liberal dose of music and pop culture and sex and drugs and fun.

So to me this site is very much about hope and possibility and change. That the revolutions that were discussed were about hippy/punk/rave, romanticism/relativism/nihilism, that they were conceptual and creative in origin. That there's another one due soon. That we can be part of its creation. Nihilism is dead. When Nietzsche warned us about that big old abyss gazing back into us he failed to notice that the universe is not an abyss; sure there's a lot of black, but it's punctuated by more galaxies than there are grains of sand on the entire earth, that there are six billion individual human worlds on this planet and that they are all continually interacting. That we are not simply the prey of the corporations and the governments but that we change the world we move through in whatever tiny way. That we are all charged potentials of interacting information rushing forward through time. Art, technology, music, language changes things.

So, go on. You know you want it. Say it.

Say you want it.

[ 31-08-2001: Message edited by: ephemerat ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:38 / 27.08.01
Why would anyone not like that answer, or want to shoot you down for it? That rocked, 'rat.
 
 
Tom Coates
10:37 / 28.08.01
quote: It seems everybody assumes we're trying to sell barbelith to people, but Tom hasn't said that's what he's up to. I do think the underground itself has a bit of an advertisement feel, though.

Actually this is a good point. I'm not so much trying to define what this place is in order to be able to sell it to people - I'm trying to work out what this place is so that I can KNOW what to do next.

Example - if this is still primarily a comics-based site, perhaps the intelligent thing to do is just to face up to that, snap off the zine and the non-comics related bits of the underground and stick em on a different site. Then we could, perhaps, work about expanding this place in Grant Morrison central.

Or alternatively, if the zine and the underground are the important bits, then maybe what we need to do is snap off the BOMB and stick THAT somewhere else and work on the revolution / thinking / commentary / community aspects of the site.

Or perhaps we are a centre of creative work - in which case perhaps a different KIND of community is required at this point.

I've got a lot running through my head at the moment, but the main issue for me is that I don't know where to take the site from here and I'm not sure that our lack of direction is particularly helpful.

It has just occurred to me that maybe if we had a mission statement - not a manifesto or a specific agenda, but a kind of piece of text that said what made us US, then that might make it easier to figure out how to make Barbelith a cooler place to be...

You know?
 
 
johnny whatif
12:12 / 28.08.01
I don't know... Though the Grant Morrison Phenomenon (tm) has (obviously) informed pretty much everything on the board, and provided the initial inspiration, it's not all-pervasive.

Other than the name and the Comics forum, i think it's grown far beyond a Grant Morrison fanboard. Being a reasonably new member, i don't really know what it was like before, but when i look at Barbelith, i see an amazing opportunity to discuss (rationally and not-so-rationally ) pretty much anything that matters a damn. From tantric theory to the latest x-title to just talking (typing?) shit with intelligent, literate people. I can't think of anything that i'd want to talk about that i couldn't bring up on the board.

To be quite honest, i've never thought of the Bomb as an actual part of the whole Barbelith thing. Don't get me wrong, it's a shit-cool and well-designed site, but the core of the thing seems to be the Underground and the Webzine...

In the short time i've been a member, i've seen people answering questions for others, sharing information, arranging meets, offering sympathy and advice and even jobs when they were needed. That's what i reckon Barbelith's all about.

<blows party squeaker>

Yaaay...
 
 
Not Here Still
17:59 / 28.08.01
Empherat, I tip my hat.

Goddamn, that was a great piece of writing and a class definition.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
19:29 / 29.08.01
Yep. Tom, that's your mission statement right there. You find a way to distill that, and you've got the essence of Barbelith in a nutshell. With a black feather boa tied around it.
 
 
ghadis
23:27 / 29.08.01
ephemerat...THat choked my tiny throat...I've been away from Barbeilth for a few months and coming back to your thoughts on it all really made me remember what a special place this is...You've really summed the place up...

And i think that everyone should put £30 or £40 into Toms banks account each month so we can keep him as our HTML slut...
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
23:43 / 29.08.01
Would that I could. But I find it difficult enough to keep £30/£40 in my own bank account. I echo the sentiment, however.
 
 
Tom Coates
10:54 / 30.08.01
Hmmm.... Charging.... Let me see...
 
  
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