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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Star Trek; Voyager- Last Episode (spoilers!)

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Our Lady of The Two Towers

19:03 / 06.08.01

I'd just like to quickly state for the record how unbelievably shit, even by Voyager's dodgy standards, the last episode is.

I know it's always been the runt of the litter and I always had a soft spot for it, though most of the time it mirrored my school reports- 'Could do better'. But the last episode was like they'd designed it with the single intention of pissing me off.

"We're home!" "Right, thats the end then!" I mean, I know Star Trek wasn't going to go the Babylon 5 route, but with no hint given of the fate of the Marquis crew, what will be done with the Doctor, Voyager's homecoming, Paris meeting up with his Dad, the crew meeting Reg Barclay, and how exactly did they hitch a lift in the Borg sphere? What happened to the Collective?

Fuck them. They made me feel like I've wasted seven years of my life. Fuck them. I'm going to become a yak and live in Siberia.

uncle retrospective

19:14 / 06.08.01

It may have been a bit shit but it was no where near as bad as the last DS9.

Now that what I called bollox.

Ellis

19:21 / 06.08.01

I thought it was crap.

Since when has Seven and Chakotay been going out? Where has Neelix gone? Why is the old Janeway so dislikable? Why was it so boring?

And why is time travel so fucking easy in the Trek universe? And why are time travel stories so crap in the Trek universe?

And why, of all the aliens to use, why use the Borg? I half expected Q. to appear as well, and Sarek...

Of course, maybe if I cared about the characters I might have gotten more out of it.

To the journey my ass.

I actually liked the DS9 ending though, there was a nice space battle.

Ganesh

19:24 / 06.08.01

Does dalmation shit smell worse than dachshund shit?

19:59 / 06.08.01

quote: Does dalmation shit smell worse than dachshund shit?

if you're gonna get close enough to tell, you've got bigger issues to work out.

anyway, I thought the last ep of Voyager was a total cop out. 2 hours? they could have fit it into 30 minutes, ditching all the pointless mock-pathos and federation mewling. They should have returned to the alpha quadrant at the beginning of the season; they might have captured some of the things that made DS9 so cool (larger issues of galactic politics juxtaposed with actual character interaction)... instead of the rehashed crap voyager spouted for years on end. i mean, section 31 would have had a coronary, what with Voyager's advanced technology being in the hands of the Maquis/Borg alliance on board.

(Ellis: Neelix got dropped off on an asteroid, where he had a tallaxian honey waiting for him... he's the "Federation liason" to the delta quad)

and another thing: Harry Kim succeeded in being the only man in Starfleet to suck ass worse than Wesley.

man, did he suck ass.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

20:29 / 06.08.01

And did anyone seriously think old Janeway was going to betray the ship? Since when has anyone is Starfleet, no matter how psychologically unstable, betrayed their colleagues?

Ellis

20:35 / 06.08.01

quote:Originally posted by The Ungodly Lozt and Found Office:
And did anyone seriously think old Janeway was going to betray the ship? Since when has anyone is Starfleet, no matter how psychologically unstable, betrayed their colleagues?

I thought she was, but I was paying more attention to my handwriting than the episode.
The doctor called himself Joe.
What was the line about the Chakotay hologram??

Jack The Bodiless

15:58 / 07.08.01

How many admirals have turned out to be evil?

And you're all wrong about DS9. expressionless and I are going to prove it to you in the near future.

And the last episode of '...Voyager' was two shits in a one shit cup. Funnily enough. It was worse than Andromeda and B5, for fuck's sake...

Jamieon

16:10 / 07.08.01

You're going to prove what?

No, you're not.

16:10 / 07.08.01

you mean there were people that kept watching this crap to the end?

Jamieon

16:21 / 07.08.01

My excuse: I lived with my brother last year. He'd occassionally borrow the videos off a friend. I watched them; they were there.

My brother doesn't like Star Trek much either. We both shared a similar lack of life, and I smoked too much dope.

uncle retrospective

19:01 / 07.08.01

quote:Originally posted by St. Jack The Bodiless:
It was worse than Andromeda and B5, for fuck's sake...

*click*

points large gun and rolls eyes.

Comparing B5 to what?
I'm disgusted.

Ellis

19:08 / 07.08.01

quote:Originally posted by St. Jack The Bodiless:
It was worse than Andromeda and B5, for fuck's sake...

I don't know, Voyager didn't have Kevin Sorbo, the girl from "Ready or Not" and bad guys called Nietzcheans in.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

19:57 / 07.08.01

quote:Originally posted by sleazenation:
you mean there were people that kept watching this crap to the end?

Well, having just got Sky and seeing the wall-to-wall promotion of the thing between EVERY commercial break at the weekend I felt I'd jump ahead. Wish I hadn't bothered.

Ganesh

22:06 / 07.08.01

quote:Originally posted by solid_state:
if you're gonna get close enough to tell, you've got bigger issues to work out.

Point being, all of Star Trek is steaming dogs' eggs. If my boyfriend wasn't an afficionado (and believe me, we've actually had stand-up rows - stupid and pointless in the extreme - over 'Trek'), I'd happily lock the shitty franchise out of my viewing box.

reidcourchie

22:06 / 07.08.01

Ganesh doesn't you house/apartment whatever have more than one room, can't you go into the bedroom and read or something?

I know, I said something similar in your Star Trek thread but face it you love this franchise for the righteous rage it seems to bring out in you.

Jamieon

11:04 / 08.08.01

No, I suspect it really does his head in, in the same way my last girlfriend's infatuation with shite arse swing acts like 'Joe' and 'Boyz 2 Men' did mine.

I know about those bullshit screamers 'Nesh, and I completely sympathise.

"Put a string of pearls right in your hand... Makin' love on a beach of jet black saaand..."

No! No! Turn it off!

Jack The Bodiless

11:27 / 08.08.01

Ganesh has a problem. It means he's unable to appreciate any Star Trek, and has no concept of relative quality, one series to another, one episode to another.

(please read the above in the vowel-rendin voice of Loyd Grossman for proper effect)

Look. B5. Utter cockcandy (and not in a good way). Three good episodes in the whole fucking thing. JMS eats tiny babies for breakfast (also not in a good way). He's a slavishly shitty and unimaginative writer and conceptualist, and there was only one truly good actor in the whole thing, tragically and bafflingly encased in proto-lizard makeup... Andreas Katsulas. The main cast were all horribly shit. Horribly. Don't even try to dispute that, or I'll piss in your ear and shit on your grave.

The dialogue. May evil things come to those that defecated onto a piece of paper and called it a screenplay for this scatfest. Did you know that if you audio tape an episode of B5, and run the tape backwards... it makes more sense? It also insults your intelligence less.

Deep Space 9 is the only mainstream sci-fi series I can think of that, despite the annoying limitations of the form/format/time slot, comes close to being invisible. I can and will back that up in the days to come. None of you will agree. You will all be wrong.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

14:33 / 08.08.01

Kids, just remember, if you post on drugs your stuff doesn't come out like Grant Morrison...

I am going to have to track you down and shoot you in the heed now...

13:44 / 13.08.01

quote: Deep Space 9 is the only mainstream sci-fi series I can think of that, despite the annoying limitations of the form/format/time slot, comes close to being invisible. I can and will back that up in the days to come. None of you will agree. You will all be wrong.

Absolutely spot on. Equal parts tragically flawed and utterly inspired, DS9 contained some of the best characterisation I've EVER seen. Dukat, Damar, Garak - three beautifully portrayed characters, AND THEY WEREN'T EVEN THE MAIN CAST.

We will tell you the truth - and you will not listen, for your ears are dull and your minds unprepared.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

16:04 / 13.08.01

But was Garak gay?

Ganesh

18:17 / 13.08.01

No, because no-one in 'Trek' has a sexuality, far less a queer sexuality.

And yeah, Reidcourchie, I do enjoy getting righteously angry about the shittiness of the no-imagination franchise - but, on balance, I'd really rather something even slightly mind-stretching was there instead. Or even nothing there instead.

Like I said, steaming dogs' eggs.

10:20 / 14.08.01

quote: No, because no-one in 'Trek' has a sexuality, far less a queer sexuality.

I dunno – you’ve got violent Klingon bondage, lesbian Intendants, lesbian Trills, sex with machines, sex with holograms (even holographic brothels), short skirts, tight uniforms… I could go on.

Oh, and Garak is definitely gay (otherwise he’d have got his leg over Ziyal at the first opportunity in order to piss off Dukat).

Ganesh

18:03 / 14.08.01

Oh, come on. Not really. Sex is occasionally miserably, pathetically hinted at, but no-one has any sort of convincing sexuality. The Superego is paramount in TrekWorld, not the Id.

ynh

18:36 / 14.08.01

Okay, what consitutes sexuality on a franchise TV show?

And will someone find me some Bashir/Garak?

05:21 / 15.08.01

man why do i suddenly feel like a geek for Voyager bein' the only Trek series i even liked enough to watch a lot, and have any attactment to? fuck the old skool trek is to old, next generation was rad, but mostly i dinna get it, i was too busy spendin' my jr and HS years drawin' a droolin' over silly sitcoms,a nd deep space nine seemed like it was 2 times as long as it was... yeah the last epoisode was messed but damn, the whole voyager thing was it's the journey not the destination, so who the fuck cares what happens whne they get home, i wish it woulda ended w/ them NOT gettin' home, and yeah the 7of9 Chakotay love thing WAS shit, she shoulda got it on w/ Harry and livened his lame ass up

reidcourchie

13:07 / 15.08.01

Ganesh can you give an example of mainstream show for that time slot that does handle sexuality well?

Also do you feel that if it does have no sexuality does that mean it's better than worse than a show that pushes a heterocentric sexuality party line?

I suppose what I'm trying to suggest is does it need to have relevance to sexuality? (Though I must admit I'd argue it does.)

Ellis

14:22 / 15.08.01

Reid' - What about Will & Grace?

*Ducks for cover*

And and Lt. Hawk from Star Trek: First Contact was gay. It says so in the new Section 31 novel.

Ganesh

15:03 / 15.08.01

Reid, I'm not particularly making a case for or against television characters - 'mainstream' or otherwise - having sexualities - hetero or otherwise. I'm airing one of my own gripes about 'Star Trek' in particular being almost entirely lacking in passion of any kind. Every relationship (okay, with one or two exceptions) is primarily a working relationship; no-one seems to form any sort of believable sexual relationship with anyone else.

The whole thing comes across as oddly sexless, a pre-adolescent's view of the Universe, the space opera equivalent of Tolkien's largely chaste Middle Earth.

Star Trek isn't anywhere near dirty enough. That becomes apparent in those episodes when they meet 'evil' alternate selves (from parallel universes or whatever) whose lack of moral fibre is signified by by their wearing fetish gear and hinting at bisexuality. What's that about?

reidcourchie

15:19 / 15.08.01

Cheer for the evil alternate selves? That's what I do.

Ganesh

15:24 / 15.08.01

I expect they're there as softer-than-softcore titillation for the straight male element of the franchise's fanbase.

17:43 / 15.08.01

Yah. Did the male eveil alternates ever hint at bisexuality?

Ganesh

19:33 / 15.08.01

Oddly enough, no.

16:30 / 17.08.01

No, the evil-world males are typified by:
A) Cruel deviousness
B) Unrepentant toadying
3) absolute arrogance
c4) absolute psychosis

whereas the females are sultry, capricious and promiscous. which also describes many of my ex-girlfriends, and believe me, they were FUN people. Come to think of it, I've been guilty of all four traits listed above... hmm.

anyway, it's pretty common for mediators to express/imply the extent of a female character's deviance/evil through sexuality. with male characters, it only works if they're pedophiles or prison badasses.

17:22 / 17.08.01

It's about dangerous empowerment, I think. Women are represented as being 'empowered' by becoming more masculine - which is read as 'dominant', 'sexually aggressive' and essentially wanting to shag women. Men on the other hand apparently can't be scary if they are big poofs. Goes to show what THEY know.

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