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No TV/cable

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00:01 / 13.02.02

Not sure this belongs here or in the Conversation Forum. Moderators make your call.
I just moved a week and a half ago. In moving, I no longer have a TV. I am getting one from a friend in the next week, but am seriously debating not getting cable. Without cable I might be able to pick up 2 or 3 local channels. But there's so much crap on TV I don't think I'll miss it much. I haven't missed it at all this past week and a half, but then again this is New Orleans and it's Mardi Gras so that may have some bearing on it.
I am going to try an experiment and not get cable for at least a month or two. I figure I will read and write more, get some more exercise. I still have a DVD player so it's not like I won't watch it at all...just reserve it for movies. But it will keep me from coming home from work and plopping in front of the TV. And save me $60 a month.

Has anyone else tried this? I can't imagine everybody owns a TV. Also, can anyone name one show worth getting cable for? (first one to say Sopranos gets kicked) The only thing I can think of are reruns of Homicide. And Baseball season might weaken my resolve.

And a final thought. How bad is our society when I have to ask "What's it like not having a TV?"

Matthew Fluxington

00:13 / 13.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Ofermod:
Has anyone else tried this? I can't imagine everybody owns a TV. Also, can anyone name one show worth getting cable for? (first one to say Sopranos gets kicked) The only thing I can think of are reruns of Homicide. And Baseball season might weaken my resolve.

I've tried this several times since graduating high school, never voluntarily. I prefer having cable, I prefer having as many entertainment options available to me as possible - I would never prefer to have things I might really like cut off from me.

I love cable - I love Comedy Central, if just for The Daily Show With Jon Stewart. I like the "wedding story/dating story/baby story" shows on Lifetime. I like Biography on A&E, I like the documentaries about NYC that are run all day long on a regional station we have here, the PBS Metro station. The History and science channels are really fun... I like having HBO, I like Bravo, and the Independent Film Channel. I like having the ability to flick to MTV just to see where it's at right now. Cable is nice.

00:17 / 13.02.02

I went for two weeks without TV voluntarily last summer. I got a good deal of stuff done, but the siren song of the television was too strong for me and I soon succumbed to once again watching TV.
I don't know if its worth getting cable for, but if you're a star trek fan then Enterprise is shaping up to be pretty good. Of course, if New Orleans is anything like Tennessee then you may have a chance of getting a UPN affiliate with just some rabbit ears.

Matthew Fluxington

00:27 / 13.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Trijhaos:
but the siren song of the television was too strong for me and I soon succumbed to once again watching TV.

Christ, would anyone say that sort of thing about music? Books? Theatre? I'm not singling you out Trijhaos, it's nothing personal - I just hate to see an entire form of communication and media for an artform maligned in such a total way. It's not *TV* that was the siren song, it was the content - and tv content can be just as good as anything other artforms can offer. It's not as though people read books mostly because they love paper and can't stand to not be touching paper products...

[ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]

01:08 / 13.02.02

I don`t have a TV and I haven`t had it for 2 years now. It`s so strange, you stop understanding the catch-phrases and jargons that everybody gets from TV... you don`t know which comercials are on and which are cool... I don`t really think I`m missing that much - speaking personally, cos I noticed I would lose a lot of time in front of tv waiting to see if something mildly interesting would come up...

01:13 / 13.02.02

I'll admit I missed the pretty moving pictures. I agree that TV content can be just as good if not better than what books or the theater can offer if you're careful what you watch. But that is getting harder as it seems that the most interesting shows are getting canned.

[ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: Trijhaos ]

Matthew Fluxington

01:16 / 13.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Marquee de Jade:
cos I noticed I would lose a lot of time in front of tv waiting to see if something mildly interesting would come up...

Um, have you ever tried looking at the newspaper tv listings?

01:19 / 13.02.02

I haven't had a TV in ten, twelve years. And I didn't have TV as a kid, until I was in junior high.

The thing about TV and me is, I can't seem to control it. I think it's because when we first got a TV it was like a spring being released & I was trying to catch up on everything I had missed. I honestly remember one whole summer I did not leave the house. I have never learned to moderate myself. When we go on vacation, it's pathetic... we were in New York City & had to tear ourselves out of the hotel room. And I'm not enjoying myself is the thing.

The other thing that freaks me out a little bit about TV is I've gotten unused to commercials. I can't wrap my head around the fact that it takes 30 minutes to watch a 22 minute show, say. I'm aware that I'm making myself sound like I'm from Mars here...

(That said, I do actually have a TV on in the house *right now* ...we always rent a TV to watch the Winter Olympics. Why? [Zero Mostel]Tradition![/ZM] So I am getting to watch Enterprise for three weeks.)

TV, as a medium, seems to me to have a rhythm that I never synched up with. I am not sure that I agree that the content is independent of the form. I mean TV shows definitely have a form, don't they?

Anyway, TV doesn't work in my life for a myriad of weird reasons. It's not really about rejecting the medium, it's just not my medium of choice.

01:45 / 13.02.02

(checks newspaper)

WOW!
This is like... I mean, WOW! These newspaper people, they know what`s gonna happen in the TV in advance, it`s ... WOW, dude, I`m hyperventilating here... WOW! I'll just sit over here for a while... WOW!

02:12 / 13.02.02

Didn't have TV for years. Never missed it. Then had one with piss-poor reception - could get public television, Fox and one of the networks at random on a good night. Watched rarely, typically when it seemed like there was news worth knowing. Never missed it. Now we have cable as a by-product of high-speed intenet access and I'll admit that being able to watch baseball every day of the summer, given the desire, isn't bad. But I won't miss it when it's gone. I'd say go without it.

Flux, you can defend the content of TV till yer death, but I'll say this: there is no other medium in which you have to wade through so much crap to get to the 'content'. Music does not try to sell me things or persuade me to a viewpoint other than that of the immediate piece. Same for books. Comics, magazines and movies do try to sell me things, but do so in a way that can be easily bypassed or ignored. Television is a good idea conceptually, but as of right now it exists to sell you things. That's it. If you're willing to put up with that, fine. But there's more undiluted content in books, music and film than I can absorb in my lifetime, so I'll not miss the telly.

The only good thing about television that comes to mind right now is that through VHS, laserdisc and DVD a great amount of attention has been brought to film preservation and restoration. If it weren't for that, I'd be happy to see every television disappear this very instant but as it is, there's films that still need saving.

[ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: videodrome ]

02:13 / 13.02.02

Woo-ha! The great TV debate!

First off, my televison consumption is very sparodic. When it's up to me, the place I'm living in doesn't have cable. When I have roommates who demand it, I always relent, and always chip in because I know I'll be watching my fair share. So, right now, I'm watching quite a bit of televison. And I feel incredibly guilty for it.

I think there's a difference between saying that content isn't the medium, and that all mediums are equal. Television, more than any other medium I can think of, is geared towards keeping you watching. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, and for many people there isn't a problem. They watch what they want and turn it off immediately afterwards. For me, I'll often fall into the trap of watching something good, and since I've settled right in, watching whatever piece of garbage comes on next, or scanning through the channels until I find halfway decent enough to watch. Halfway decent is usually all it takes.

Movies watched in the theatre end. Movies rented end, and can be paused. Books end, and can be put down. Music ends (though with radio, television's second cousin, that's debatable) and can be paused. Comics end, and can be put down. Sex, not necessarily a medium, but still fun, gets sore after awhile and usually has some sort of ending. A night watching a play at the theatre ends.

Television never fucking ends. Unless you make the decision to end it. And for some people, myself included, sometimes it's better never to turn the damned thing on at all.

Matthew Fluxington

02:36 / 13.02.02

The thing that is baffling about some of your arguments is that you seem to be doubting your own abilities to show discretion and selfcontrol - yes, there is a lot of bad programming on television. Yes, there are adverts on tv, and yes, tv never ends. But aren't you all adults? If you are intelligent and disciplined enough to read dense books, then why do you lack faith in your own abilities to show discipline with a television set? TV can be turned off. Listings are made which tell you when programs are on, and what those programs are about. You don't HAVE to watch adverts, you can flick around to other channels, or better yet, get up and do something else in the meantime.

Please, give yourselves a bit more credit than this!

03:10 / 13.02.02

Christ, Flux, don't try to reverse engineer our comments into revelations of our own inability to grasp the potential of the telly. If I'm reading a book or listening to a record, I don't want to just arbitrarily miss the opening of the next chapter or track. But that's what happens when one skips around, physically or via the remote, during commercials.

As for the battle of media, the bottom-line reason that I am interested in any media is that it expresses a particular take on experience. Books and music do this quite well. Film occasionally hits it, but when it doesn't there's often great photography to be had. Television offers this so rarely that I just can't be bothered anymore. The last time I saw television offer a specific perspective was Twin Peaks - ten years ago. There may be other shows with similar intent, but the distraction level of television is just too high. If television could be relied upon to provide an objective rendering of actual events (we'll call it news) then I might be in. As not, I'd rather go without.

[ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: videodrome ]

03:17 / 13.02.02

My big beef was your assertion that television was no different from any other medium. Notice I did not say "worse." Do you actually believe that?

If television is different in the way that it draws you in and tries to keep you glued to the set, and if this is something that someone finds disturbing, then why not disregard televison as a whole?

Like many people, I was raised on television, before I was an adult and before I could make those decisions you speak of. It was such a part of my life that I couldn't look at it objectively. One day, and I can't remember why, I decided to give it a break for a month. That break gave me the silence necessary to form a coherent decision on the matter. Since then my television viewing has never risen past one-fifth what it once was. I have more spare time and I'm more perceptive of my life and my surroundings.

I watch a little bit of television every once in awhile, but whenever I feel myself slipping, I take a break. An addiction never goes away, especially one that was introduced as a toddler. The same could be said for most other mediums. I've gone without all of those too, and not one of them has had the same effect as televison. As a matter of fact, I rarely even listen to music anymore, or at least when I'm doing something else. Too distracting.

I, for one, am impressed by the quality of television programs out there these days. Like you, I'm a big Gilmour Girls watcher. My problem is not with the content. it's with the medium. And just because it doesn't fit me, does not mean that I condemn it outright for others. However, I don't think that anyone who has lived the majority of their life without at least two months straight of being apart from it can objectively evaluate the situation. They're too close.

[ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: moriarty ]

03:32 / 13.02.02

Save the $60; do the other things. TV will be there when you get back. And hey, if you want encouragement: my story includes not only more exciting sex, but better paying jobs and tastier food.

And in case anyone's being deceived by Flux, I'll make a small effort to clear things up. First, folks watch TV, not shows. Not all of 'em, mind you; Flux is the one-in-ten. Second, while the literature on television addiction still relies heavily on anecdotal evidence, Scientific American recently published an article on it; it's hard to turn the shit off. Third, about 98% of homes in the US have one or more television sets. At least one of them is on an average of 4 hours a day.

Finally, it's mostly crap.

quote:Word to moriarty
For me, I'll often fall into the trap of watching something good, and since I've settled right in, watching whatever piece of garbage comes on next

your jargon for the day is "flow"
If Only Futurama and The Simpsons ran back to back...

06:01 / 13.02.02

i gave up watching tv at the beginning of this year - for the reason that where i live i have no choice at all as to what is on, and even if i am watching something i really want to see, the landlady's child has the charming habit of just switching over.

it's been good in that i did used to spend too long just watching anything, esp with the novelty of cable, which i had in my last abode for a couple of months. there are programmes and esp films that i would actively love to see, so i hope to have access again one day, but the sight of the landlady's sprog - a bright kid - sitting one foot away from the screen, completely zombified, is rather frightening.

Regrettable Juvenilia

06:55 / 13.02.02

quote:Originally posted by videodrome:
there is no other medium in which you have to wade through so much crap to get to the 'content'.

The Internet? Since I got net access at home, I've found I watch far less TV... but I'm spending far too much time looking at fairly pointless websites. I think there's a definite comparison to be drawn here: the problem with both mediums is that you go to the screen for the good stuff, but can easily end up staying for the crap.

The Natural Way

07:11 / 13.02.02

Too true, too true. And HOW much crap do I watch? Christ, I think I love poo quiz shows... Weeknights...out in the sticks w/ nothing to do...

The Return Of Rothkoid

07:11 / 13.02.02

Re: gameshows and the like. I asked the internet for advice, and it told me which was better: answer here.

Personally, my TV intake is markedly down on what it was before I moved to London. I watch much more in the way of films, now, and I prefer it that way. While the quality argument exists in pretty much all media, I think that as videodrome points out, TV is where you really have to dig for it - websites are reasonably static, whereas TV is a blink-and-you'll-miss-it kind of affair, so you have to snare what you want pretty precisely.

TV's the sort of thing that I can easily watch because, like most, I was watching it when I was small, and it's an easy habit to fall back into - the sitting down and watching whatever's on - but I feel more of a sense of achievement if I nix that and do something else. And as stupid as it sounds, watching a film instead of a TV show is, to me, more fulfilling.

(That said, there ARE shows that are amazingly worthwhile; I'm just finding that now I'm less cut up about missing them than I would've been previously. If my new flat doesn't have a TV, then I'll make do without, really.)

07:11 / 13.02.02

What about a radio? I don't have a television (and have never been a big fan anyway - it makes me nervy and uncomfortable) or net access at home, but I find the radio an excellent companion.

07:11 / 13.02.02

Just call me media whore... having said that, I rarely give any media my undivided attention- TV on in the background as i surf or radio as i work (don'tcha just love real audio?)...

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

07:11 / 13.02.02

This inspires a redux of a classic thread...

10:06 / 13.02.02

Guess I'm a media whore 2 - last night for example - PS2 running but I'm not playing it - TV is on and the laptop is download "The Secret of the Sword" - I tend to find that all the electrical noise drowns out the voices in my head...

although I haven't really missed Sky that much since moving to London, apart from maybe seeing a few new Simpsons and the WWF - TV for me is just like a comfort blanket, its been a good friend to me and I'm not going to turn me back on it now

Matthew Fluxington

10:27 / 13.02.02

If television is different in the way that it draws you in and tries to keep you glued to the set, and if this is something that someone finds disturbing, then why not disregard televison as a whole?

Because I think that it's unfair to disregard or dismiss a form of communication out hand. It should also be noted that tv is free, and failing that, relatively inexpensive - you certainly get what you pay for. And usually when you pay for it, the content is a bit better and a commercials are not included.

Kit Kat is correct, tv and radio have a lot in common. I love radio too, even in spite of the fact that corporations have destroyed 95% of the airwaves. I'm a very big fan of WFMU and NPR in particular, there's something that I love about the concept/form of radio that I really can't even describe, I've been like that since I was a small child. I certainly don't have that same kind of love for tv, but it being another 'free' entertainment/communication service, it depends greatly upon the taste and discipline of the audience to enjoy it to its fullest.

I still just don't buy the "but I'm a captive audience for their adverts! they pull me in and I can't let go!" rhetoric. I can understand choosing to go without it because the form's limitations put you off - I guess that would be an explanation for why I very seldom see live theatre events. It just seems silly to cut yrself off from a communications medium entirely for that reason.

The arguments here against television sound a lot like the arguments I often here about why comics are a just a flat-out, no good medium, or why the internet is all just garbage.

(It's nice to hear someone, anyone on this board is familiar with and fond of the Gilmore Girls.)

13:09 / 13.02.02

The Gilmore Girls suck.

But on topic...

The difference between TV and other media is that TV is a completely passive activity. A "glass teat," to use Harlan Ellison's trenchant phrase. Try looking at data showing the neural activity of a person watching TV, and then tell me TV is full of stimulating content. There's nothing happening there, folks.

Then look at the developmental differences between a child who grows up watching a lot of TV and a child who, for instance, grows up reading a lot of books.Ever wonder where ADHD comes from?

TV is an inherently mindless medium. I have no qualms about saying that. I also have no qualms about admitting the fact that I do watch TV: I watch the Simpsons, I watch the West Wing with my girlfriend, I watch all the hockey I can find, I've been watching the Olympics.

TV doesn't so much grab your attention as caress it. It's easy: much easier than reading a book (neural activity) after a full day of working, thinking, etc. And when you just sit there taking in information with your mind on "shut-off" mode...isn't that a lot like what they used to call brainwashing?

Take your TV in small, controlled doses, people...

13:28 / 13.02.02

I haven't had TV reception since 1989. I've got a 25-year-old television with no antenna hooked up to a 20-year-old VCR to watch movies. (Both machines are on their last gasp.

) So I don't watch TV, unless I'm at Mom's house or at my local.

The other thing that freaks me out a little bit about TV is I've gotten unused to commercials. – Persephone

I feel the same way. I feel far more conscious and aware of them than people who watch a lot of TV. They tend to be louder than the program, for one thing. And I notice weird things, like news programs will always have a preponderance of medication commercials.

14:33 / 13.02.02

TV isn't "free." Those adverts, captive audience or no, are your job and the shit shows are your wages. (To say nothing of the in-gameshow ads or the rising use of product placements...)

The preponderance of meds ads during the news reflects its primary market demographic.

[offtopic] Those 20-yr-old VCR's can prolly last another 20 with proper maintenance. [/offtopic]

14:51 / 13.02.02

Those 20-yr-old VCR's can prolly last another 20 with proper maintenance. – YNH

Yeah – that's why I'm not throwing them out just yet

I know of a couple of places around here that might be able to fix 'em up, so it's a matter of allocating the funds.

14:55 / 13.02.02

[rot]
Try going somewhere people can vouch for. Mine got destroyed by a hack who seemed to have a lot of business.
[/rot]

15:10 / 13.02.02

Yeah, I kinda get irritated with people that seem supercilious about not having a TV. Like when Michael Moore came here a few years ago, every time he visited a town, he always heard a conversation that went like this:

Wussy Liberal #1: "I LOVE your show--and I don't normally watch television!"
Wussy Liberal #2: "Pfft, I don't even own a television."

15:25 / 13.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Margin Walker:
Yeah, I kinda get irritated with people that seem supercilious about not having a TV.

Well yeah, of course I agree with that. But it's equally annoying when people act like the reason you don't have TV is purposely to put them down.

Because between the two of them you never get to talking about things that you could talk about. Such as, what *is* it about TV as a medium that seems to suck people in, which so many people report as being the case that it seems worth examining & not dismissing? Why is it that loving books as I do, I greatly prefer my sci-fi on television & so I do miss it, even movies don't quite do it the same for me? Or even comparing the ideas of being open to as many forms of media as possible (Flux) and being selective of just a few (me), and how these play out?

15:35 / 13.02.02

personally, I wouldnt have a tv if it werent for other people. my mother made me feel guilty and then bought a tv and vcr for me when I moved into where I am now (a great big one, no less - a christmas gift), and then my ex bought a tv/vcr for my daughter for a gift that year, too. the cable is free because Im in a shared house broken into apartments and the guy downstairs has it, wont take money from me at all

now, I could gladly do without tv, and wouldnt miss it a bit. Ive lived in apartments without television (or a phone, even once without electricity or running water! yay!), and never once thought about it, never missed it.

however - its a wonderful distraction, a pleasant nuisance, the flicker-noise a fantastic diversion

I dont think youd miss it, and think of the money youll save! buy an aquarium instead, not only is it nice to watch and soothing to hear, but the added moisture in the air is a niiiice benefit (I have two in my bedroom)

16:28 / 13.02.02

I'm much happier without it. Living with the finance and her tot, I find myself catching bits of Cartoon Network and lots of Food Network, the occasional fun movie, and the more frequent crap film on SciFi.

I do enjoy the odd Enterprise, but it's more the looking forward than the actual show itself.

TV is a legal drug. Sedative & hypnotic.

Get a VCR and a few good books.

16:28 / 13.02.02

when I have television I watch too much of it and since most of it sucks I watch a lot of sucky television. so I gave mine up. I have tried to watch in moderation on the sets people leave on the street but it doesnt work.

when I watch the stuff my sense of casuality melts. my values warp especially with admiration/lust for the pretty ladies it trots in front of me and I believe that by wishing for something and/or luck I can have anything every day now.

at the moment NPR substitutes for television. I both hate it and love it. for those who don't know it has a smarmy liberal attitude and middlebrow sensibilities and has the same crap-good stuff ratio as television (though I know some will disagree).

radio, television and the 'net seem like siblings to me and I have a sad addiction to the latter.

if Doctor Who goes back on the air I will take my chances though.

[ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: Zen Master Ria ]

16:29 / 13.02.02

I think it's both more fun than television and less hypnotic, but I only really listen in the car. I try to catch This American Life on weekends, but rarely succeed.

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