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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Ghost World, the film - !!SPOILERS!!

Ronald Thomas Clontle

03:45 / 23.07.01

Oh wow! I hate to gush, but I am incredibly impressed by the film adaption by Daniel Clowes and Terry Zwigoff. For fans of the original comic, I can assure you that every character, from the most major (Enid and Rebecca) down to the most trivial (Melorra, the faux-nazi asshole guy, the "weird Al" waiter guy) is absolutely nailed. Every character is just right. Thora Birch, aside from being one of the sexiest creatures on this earth, is perfect as Enid, and Scarlett Johannsen does a great job as Rebecca...which is probably a tough roll to get right, so hats off to her.

In its own way, the film works almost like a sequel to the comic, in that there are several new subplots and stories going on that wasn't in the original. This made me especially happy, because I really love Enid as a character and was thrilled to have a whole new Enid story...the big one is her relationship with a record collector geek guy, who is a reworked version of the "I Saw You" ad guy in the original. This works really well, the character (played by Steve Buscemi) is really interesting, and it makes sense. The other plotline involves Enid going to summer school art classes, and dealing with her horribly pretentious art teacher...all of these sequences were hilarious, especially having been through art school myself since high school...it was all dead-on.

There's a lot of scenes, particularly ones with Enid and Rebecca, which are lifted line for line out of the original... some characters serve more or less the same function as in the comic, but are just worked in a bit differently (Melorra Daniels being a good example...) There's a good amount of things in the comic that were cut out of the film version...the most major being Rebecca being deemphasized quite a bit, and the character Josh becoming a minor supporting character rather than a big part of the plot as in the original.

The film is just great all around, it's very funny, it's very emotionally involving, and there's quite a lot of commentary on the social condition of weirdos and outcasts, and consumer culture. Go see it when it comes to yr town. It's worth it.

[ 19-11-2001: Message edited by: Rothkoid ]

16:34 / 23.07.01

I'm very, very glad to hear that this is a good movie.

17:12 / 23.07.01

I'm so jealous you've gotten to see it!!! That and "Hedwig" I can't wait to see.

Soon, soon...

And hey, did you know that R. Crumb and Aline Kominsky's daughter Sophie does the artwork for Enid in that movie?

[ 23-07-2001: Message edited by: Cherry Bomb ]

Ronald Thomas Clontle

20:26 / 25.07.01

quote:Originally posted by Cherry Bomb:

And hey, did you know that R. Crumb and Aline Kominsky's daughter Sophie does the artwork for Enid in that movie?

[ 23-07-2001: Message edited by: Cherry Bomb ]

Yeah, I did. I'm pretty sure that a few of "Enid"'s drawings of the Steve Buscemi character shown at the end were by Clowes himself though, as it looks just like he did it.

It's been a couple days since I've seen the film now, and it's still swimming around in my mind, it was so good. I'll be seeing it again in a couple days...I very seldom see films more than once in their release. I've got a feeling this movie will have a snowball effect and will eventually become a minor hit, it's a very accessable film and I think that there is a large number of people out there who'd love it.

Also, it's a great advertisement for one of the finest comic creators in the business, and will likely bring a lot of (the right) people into comics shops, which is a far better thing for the industry than anything Marvel is doing at the moment. The film has been selling out every showing, it's really impressive. I think the audience I saw it in was the sexiest film audience I'd ever been in, too.

Also, knowing that Terry Zwigoff and Daniel Clowes will be doing "Art School Confidential" next after seeing the art school scenes in Ghost World is very promising.

Maybe we'll get a David Boring film sometime in the future...

01:39 / 26.07.01

A talented filmmaker friend of mine is currently investigating the possibility of adapting "Caricature" into a short film.

He's one of my conversion victories - he wasn't a comics reader at all but I got him hooked on Clowes...

Ronald Thomas Clontle

01:44 / 26.07.01

quote:Originally posted by CameronStewart:
A talented filmmaker friend of mine is currently investigating the possibility of adapting "Caricature" into a short film.

He's one of my conversion victories - he wasn't a comics reader at all but I got him hooked on Clowes...

Yes, I've found that Daniel Clowes and Adrian Tomine to be hands down the best comics for people who've never read comics. If only more people just wrote comics about normal people sans quirkiness.

[ 02-09-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]

reidcourchie

07:44 / 26.07.01

I keep on thinking of Thora Hird everytime someone mention Thora Birch, this is causing some confusion.

What's Ghostworl about? Also is this an indie? Bcause it's very difficult to get to see anything other than very mainstream films around here.

10:05 / 26.07.01

Ghost World - based on a Dan Clowes story - poignant little comic about two teenage girls growing up and growing away from each other. Having been a teenage girl I can see just how poignant it is. In an interview Clowes said people who are around the main character's age usually think the story is "OK," but it really hits girls who are little older. Just as an aside.

Anyhoo, "Ghost World" has been made into a movie, directed by Terry Zwigoff (he of "Crumb" fame) and is now in limited release.

I hope I helped.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

14:34 / 26.07.01

Just to add on to what Cherry Bomb said... a major part of the story is that the two lead characters have just graduated high school, and are not going to college. They are both figuring out what to do with themselves in the "ghost world" between high school and real life.

Also, both of the lead characters are misfit girls who make an effort to not fit in to regular society...most of the other characters are weirdos and outcasts too. A lot of the story, particularly in the film, is how these sorts of people deal with being that why, and why they choose to be that way. I think one of the best things I've read in a review about the movie is that the film indulges the characters ironic distance and posturing, but does not share it. Does that make sense?

23:37 / 01.09.01

They are both figuring out what to do with themselves in the "ghost world" between high school and real life.

First of all, everybody's right--"Ghost World" is fucking great. It's everything the graphic novel is and more. What I read into the title "Ghost World" was that all of the main charachters are living in the past, this other "Ghost" world that only they can fully realize. Just like the old guy waiting for the bus.

Here's some trivia things I noticed:

--Enid pulls out a Robert Crumb album & Seymour says something like "Eh, that's not very good."
--David Cross (of "Mr. Show"), Crispin Glover's dad & the guy that hosts FOX's "World's Wildest Police Videos" all have cameo roles.
--Robert Crumb's daughter did the sketches in Enid's sketchbook & Dan Clowes did the artwork for the "Coon's/Cook's Kitchen" stuff.
--Is it just a coincidence that the woman Seymour is dating looks a lot like the latest icon for the "Cook's Kitchen"?
--Dan Clowes wrote the lyrics to the excetable "Graduation Rap".

Ronald Thomas Clontle

03:32 / 02.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Margin Walker:

--Dan Clowes wrote the lyrics to the excetable "Graduation Rap".

"we stayed for the duration!/ achieved matriculation!/ and now we are the newest members of the general population!"

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

03:53 / 02.09.01

I saw the sneak preview a few weeks ago. I loved it. It also depressed me in the fact that I can identify too closely with Enid. (And before you vilify me, yes, I have read the comic and I felt the same way, but it was a stronger impact for me when I saw the film. So there.)

Molly Shortcake

04:04 / 02.09.01

I saw this film last night and I was seriously dissapointed. I don't understand why Steve Bushemis character takes the place of the Josh dynamic between the two girls. To sell more tickets?

Yeah, it was obvious that the girls were best friends growing apart, but the relationship wasn't all that intence to begin with since Enid spent all her time with whatshisface.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a good film.
Right behind Blade for best comic movie. I absolutely loved the art class stuff, the teacher was an exzact clone of my AP instructor in high school (minus the closed mindedness and cheesy feminism). Freaked me out.

[ 02-09-2001: Message edited by: Ice Honkey/Grim Rapper ]

Warrington Minge

19:59 / 02.09.01

I also went to see ghost world last night and I am so glad there are people on this sight talking about. really was probably one of the best comic book adaptions I have seen. I love Eightball and both the lead girls were perfect although it did seem to center around Thora Birch which was great but obviously not inline with the comic. I always know When I have seen a good movie when the soundtrack really affects me. I had to rush home and listen to some early blues. luckily I have got some Josh White albums lying around.

Actually loved Steve Buscemi's character. I dont recall it from the comics but it was a very Clowes part. In fact the only disappointing thing for me was that at the showing I went to the Producers of the film were supposed to be there to introduce the film but unfortunatly they didn't show up.

Did any of you guys see the trailer to this movie. I downloaded a while ago. It's really odd because it makes it seem like a very different film. The trailer features loads of clips of that film with the dancers at the begining and hardly anything about the actual film. I must admit when I saw that trailer it almost made me want to give it a miss.

Finally towards the end of the film when enid is hanging out at the bus-stop a lot of the images seemed to be inspired by the artist Edward Hopper ( also an inspiration for the Glengarry Glen Ross film ) did anyone else see this or was it just me and my over active imagination.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

20:44 / 02.09.01

About Seymour, Steve Buscemi's character:

He only sort of appears in the comic - the scene with Enid, Becky, and Josh playing the classified ad prank at the 50s diner is played out nearly verbatim, and the victim of that prank is developed into the Seymour character in the film. According to the screenplay book and several interviews, the Seymour character is written mostly by Terry Zwigoff and is nearly autobiographical. The character is there in part for Zwigoff to vent his personal pet peeves and echo his personality and interests. Steve Buscemi was not cast til long after the script was written, and the studio initially wanted someone even more cartoonishly 'loser'-ish to play him - Buscemi was cast by Clowes and Zwigoff, and I think they chose well. I can't think of anyone more perfect for the role. I think all of the interaction between Seymour and Enid is extremely well done, and believable for both characters. I especially appreciate that Becky dislikes Seymour consistently throughout the film.

If you check out the screenplay book, you'll see that Josh remained a prominent character in the screenplay, but several key scenes featuring him and Enid (she sleeps with him, the whole "I practically LOVE you, Josh" scene), and he and Becky were cut in the end...I agree with their judgement, it would have made the film less coherant. And it's something to look foward to when it comes out on DVD...

15:58 / 07.11.01

It's out in the UK in a couple of week's time.

Anyone know what certificate it's getting?

anyone fancy a Barbelith film evening in the East Midlands when it gets released. I don't suppose we will get the outrageous violence that marked our Chomsky night, but it could be fun.

16:38 / 07.11.01

kooky and i got to see a special preview of this- its cert 15 as i recall...

if you want to know what i thought of it my review is in issue four of borderline ... a summary? go and see it.

Ellis

08:46 / 17.11.01

I saw it last night. Loved it, especially the nunchucks guy. I think we were the only ones in the audience actually laughing though.
The acting was brilliant and Enid/ Seymours relationship was belieavble.

The only thing that jarred with me was the art gallery scene, the taking down of the picture seemed too much like a plot from Hollyoaks for some reason.

I did prefer the comic's ending though.

15:17 / 17.11.01

I'm hoping everyone here stayed in the cinema until the closing credits finished, to be treated to the "alternate" take of Seymour vs. Nunchuk Mullet Guy?

Seymour: "You wanna fuck with me? You wanna fuck with me?!?! HUH??"

[ 17-11-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]

Ronald Thomas Clontle

15:26 / 17.11.01

yeah, the end credits bit is priceless...

re: the art show/art class scenes. I don't know what art classes and art schools are like in the UK, but as a veteran of such things since the age of 15, I can't tell you how true so much of those scenes are... it's uncanny how accurate they are...

Do you have any idea how many girls like "Margaret" I've had to suffer through?

08:48 / 19.11.01

i missed the ending because i was at the end of the row and everyone else was itching to move off. never really understood that: i like to watch credits, i'm a credits geek, why always the rush to leave the cinema at the end of a film? is youre life so busybusybusy that you can't wait 5mins for the houselights to come up, you have to sneak off in the dark? pah.

anyway, ghost world was one of those films i really enjoy whilst i'm watching it, but feel very dissatisfied with when over (cf. american beauty, being john malkovitch, amelie and many others). i read a review online that said that one of the things that was so good about the comic is that it left things open-ended and that fitted the mood of the whole story, and the film resolved all the issues too neatly, which ultimately left one feeling unsatisfied because nothing was really left to the imagination. i have to say i totally agree.

Pin

08:48 / 19.11.01

Oddly enough, the cinema on the isalnd has spent all it's money buying enough reels of Harry Piotter to be able to show it on about half of it's 12 (aprox. seating capacity each, 80) screens simultaneously, and so "overlooked" this. Wankers. They also got rid of The Man Who Wasn't There before I could see it, but that's another point...

11:33 / 19.11.01

quote:Originally posted by Kooky is a bad scamp:

i read a review online that said that one of the things that was so good about the comic is that it left things open-ended and that fitted the mood of the whole story, and the film resolved all the issues too neatly, which ultimately left one feeling unsatisfied because nothing was really left to the imagination. i have to say i totally agree.

*********SPOILERS

Wha? Enid gets on a bus that has never arrived before (perhaps a tad heavy-handed, but nonetheless effective) and goes off to PARTS UNKNOWN. How much more ambiguous and open-ended an ending could there be?

[ 19-11-2001: Message edited by: Clever Clogs Todd ]

11:45 / 19.11.01

Oy you!

Spoilers warning, please!

I mean, I know it's outrageous that I have neither read the comic or seen the film yet, but I *was* hoping to remedy the latter without finding out what the ending was in advance. Humbug.

The Return Of Rothkoid

12:10 / 19.11.01

(Topic header edited to stop ire of those who ain't seen the movie...including me.)

13:07 / 19.11.01

I'm very sorry, Kit-Kat. Consider me chastened.

13:14 / 19.11.01

Aw, that's OK.

I shouldn't really complain - I'm one of those people who read the end of the book first (it stops the agony in the middle, you see).

Ronald Thomas Clontle

16:16 / 19.11.01

The ending of Ghost World is more or less the same in both the film and the book... I like the comic version slightly more, cos it adds in Josh being with Becky, and Enid looking on "you've grown into a beautiful young lady"... it also has the fortune reader guy who isn't in the movie.

Though it is said in a different way in a scene between Enid and Seymour, the ending in the comic also has a bit more weight becuase of the scene where Enid tells Becky about her fantasy to move somewhere and become an entirely new person and never return, and Becky doesn't understand the fantasy, and Enid tells her it is because she (becky) doesn't utterly loathe herself...