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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

rings vs the force

  
 
hanabius yamamura
20:36 / 13.02.02
just been to see the lord of the rings for the second time...fab...having read the books umpteen times , thoroughly enjoy the movie.

my mate who was with me tonight , who has never laid eyes on the books (or the hobbit) raised some interesting points ... re the star wars trilogy

1. 'semi-unseen' main bad guy - sauron and palpatine

2. good-guy goes bad - saruman and darth vader

3. is gandalf the original ben kenobi?

4. reluctant hero ? - frodo and luke

...have to say he peaked my curiousity ... any thoughts ?



[ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: hana_bi ]

[ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: hana_bi ]
 
 
sleazenation
20:53 / 13.02.02
Or you could just Read Vladimir Proop's classic essay 'Morphology of the folk tale' that sets out the key oppertaions common to most folk tales (though he models his essay specifically on Russian folk tales)

basically, the old stories never die... they just assume new forms
 
 
A
00:11 / 14.02.02
you could probably find about a million movies, books, comics etc that share a lot of those points. there are similar elements in everything from Harry Potter to the Invisibles.

Is that Vladimir Proop essay the "12-point" guide to stories that George Lucas supposedly used to come up with Star Wars, or was that something else?
 
 
videodrome
00:15 / 14.02.02
That being the case, there are definite similarities, but I wonder how much of that comes from Star Wars being set firmly in Jackson's mind. I think particularly of the introduction of Strider in the film - so similar to the first shot of Han Solo. I like the idea that things could wrap around like that - LOTR influences SW which in turn hits the new vision of LOTR. Pretty obvious, I guess.

That being said, <rot> I've recently viewed The Hidden Fortress again. Absolutely great film, but there are far more similarities to SW than the oft-mentioned basic plot elements. The opening sequence with the two rogues not only inspired the droids in SW (and Lucas' half-assed attempt to tell the story through them) but was actually lifted shot by shot. There are other dramatic similarities, notably the final shot of the film, which prefigures the medal scene in SW. </rot>
 
 
Rev. Wright
11:58 / 14.02.02
quote: Or you could just Read Vladimir Proop's classic essay 'Morphology of the folk tale' that sets out the key oppertaions common to most folk tales (though he models his essay specifically on Russian folk tales)
having studied this I was also made aware of an article in Sight and Sound, by my lecturer, about the application of the major Arcana of the Tarot as Narrative/Meta-narratve and morphology. Supposedly, as I was unable to access a copy, the article used Star Wars as its example.
Considering that Prof. Tolkein (fanboy bit, I went to uni and was friends with a grand daughter of his, Zoe) was attempting to write a modern mythology for Brtain, sourced from European myths.
I would not be difficult to see that there are 'major' links between the two texts, Lord and Wars, in its narrative construction.
 
 
deja_vroom
15:59 / 14.02.02
Re: Reluctant heroes:



They don't look *that* reluctant from where I stand...
(sorry for this shameless thread-rot. please continue)
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
16:10 / 14.02.02
Seems like fairly standard roles, each with their own message.

A bad guy will always be bad and is a tricky fellow.

Too much power corrupts.

The hero is not always where you expect to find him.

The mentor that follows the true path is bound to be from The British Isles.

But seriously, these roles in are common to myths everywhere.

And keep your hobbit porn to the conversation.
 
 
deja_vroom
18:52 / 14.02.02
Ok, I dug up this page with lots of chewy info about the connections between star wars, LOTR and the mitological sagas that spawned them.
Hope it compensates for my previous thread rot.

here's the link
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
19:06 / 15.02.02
campbell, the soup guy
(actually joseph, the power of myth guy)
 
 
Mpossible
01:32 / 19.02.02
And Hero with a Thousand Faces

... or Masks, whatever it is
 
 
Bill Posters
13:25 / 23.02.02
Yes, I think Lucas got the life work of Campbell reduced into one page (!) and worked with that.

Will, that's fascinating. I know a London mage who has a talk on Star Wars' occult subtext. All I can recall OTOMH is that Luke Skywalker was The Fool and Darth V obviously sounds a bit Kabbalah-oid. Is that article available on-line d'you happen to know?

[ 23-02-2002: Message edited by: Bill Posters ]
 
 
Bill Posters
17:30 / 25.02.02
Oh and I am reading a book called City Magick (forget the author name, can get it) which points out that Dane in The Invisibles is also very much a reluctant hero.
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
17:43 / 25.02.02
Not to mention Darth Vader's brothers Rig and Ayur...
 
 
Ethan Hawke
17:47 / 25.02.02
And "midichlorians" are so obviously Wilhelm Reich's "orgone."

Which means Star War is just a thinly veiled sexual allegory about how evil people really just need to get laid.
 
 
Rev. Wright
18:25 / 25.02.02
Sorry Bill, I've checked the Sight and Sound site but to no avail.
 
 
Bill Posters
15:42 / 27.02.02
Cheers Will. (Um, I'm still intrigued tho'. If by any chance you remember his name and workplace, cd u pm it 2 me?)
 
 
Rev. Wright
16:55 / 27.02.02


sorry Bill, I'm afraid he's a rather busy Head of department, and I would get grief if I give out his details, sorry.
 
 
hanabius yamamura
19:11 / 27.02.02
during a quiet spell at work today ( no laughing , ganesh , i do have them )
... i read empire jan. 2002 empire mag.

re lotr special - elrond as yoda

... eeeehhhh ?

as the poster of this thread ....?????


  
  
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