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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #124

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Math is for suckers!

23:20 / 14.03.02

flipped through the advance copy at the comic shop today, and good god but the art is shit. anyone know who the new artist is. its gotta be some of the worst comic art ive seen in a long time.

Matthew Fluxington

23:33 / 14.03.02

124 is supposed to be by Ethan Van Sciver, who's already done three other issues of the series... I haven't seen 124 yet, but c'mon, he's not THAT bad!

23:39 / 14.03.02

Oh for christ's sake. When will people drop this art thing? Yes, yes I know, to most everybody Quitely is God...blah blah blah.

I want everybody who doesn't like the work of the fill-in artists on NXM to go take a look at the Cyclops mini-series. Yes. that's the one, over there in the quarter bin. See? Now I want you to compare that art to what we see in NXM. Not so bad now is it?

Seriously though, everybody's not going to draw like Quitely. Deal with it. I know art is a big part of comics, but it is not the be all and end all of the damn things.

Stop comparing artist's work. I mean you don't want everybody to try to emulate Liefeld's work do you? No, I didn't think so. Judge their work on its own merits. Don't judge it by the work of other artists.

Matthew Fluxington

00:01 / 15.03.02

Mike Texiera did the Cyke mini, right?

Yeah, that guy is horrible.

Trijhaos is right on... isn't Grant's writing enough? Grant's done some comics with people a lot worse than Igor and Ethan, for sure...and I think both artists are pretty good in their own right. Frank Quitely is a talented guy, but he doesn't make NXM what it is, I don't think.

13:13 / 15.03.02

I think the thing that disappoints me the most about the alternating new xmen artist controversy or whatever is that Morrison and Quitely don't have the opportunity to work on the same project for a set amount of issues, the way that Milligan and Allred are doing it (save for one issue, so far, but I think that one was done pretty well) over at the xforce office.

And plus I really like Quitely's art, and think that Kordey and van Sciver's art looks too dated for the this sort of series.

Murray Hamhandler

14:47 / 15.03.02

I really don't have a problem w/Van Sciver's art, per se, and I seem to be in the extreme minority of people who actually like Kordey's work, but...I personally would be willing to wait several months between issues if Quitely did all of the art. I think it would turn what is a very good book into a great one. I read some of the much-hyped new Hulk issues on Marvel's site the other day and realized how relatively ineffective they would have been w/o the consistency of JRJR's art to hold them together. I think the same holds true with New X-Men to an extent. The Invisibles worked w/different artists because there were noticeable changes in tone. For better or worse, Sciver and Kordey's issues do tend to fall a little flat in comparison w/Quitely's. So my complaint, basically, is the inconsistency. I think I might be all right with, say, just Kordey doing the art. I know, I know. I say that -now-...
Arthur Sudnam, II

Matthew Fluxington

15:04 / 15.03.02

As I've said before, I don't think it's a matter of Kordey and Van Sciver being bad artists, but as Arthur says, just not appropriate for the project. I think that a guy like Phillip Bond would be perfect - his art is different, but still has the same sexy-new vibe that Frank's art often has.

Again, as I've said before, I think that the comic NEEDS to be monthly, if not bi-weekly - it's a serial, it's like tv, it's like old film serials. It's supposed to go fast. Frank is wonderful, but I don't think the comic should be slowed down to suit his snail-pace. I don't resent Frank for his slowness either - when he takes his time, he produces great work. I don't want second-rate Frank, I want to see him get better and better.

I've recently just flat-out fallen in love with John Romita Jr.'s recent work, enough so that I've been buying Hulk and Spider-Man in spite of my disinterest in those characters. I agree with Arthur that those comics have okay writing, but JRJR is what puts them great - I don't think this is the case for NXM. I think that in the long run, Grant's writing on that comic is the important thing, the real draw, and Frank is the secret weapon that makes some issues really magical..

I'm really looking foward to the day when Frank Quitely is as polished as JRJR... I imagine in ten years time, the art we're seeing from Frank now will seem pretty weak compared to what he'll eventually do.

Most of my favorite cartoonists lately are like that...

15:13 / 15.03.02

Kordey's art works wonderfully for the direction Cable's gone recently.

I think instead of Kordey and Van Sciver, they should grab Norm Rapmund from Wolverine. Rapmund's Cyclops is wonderful, unlike Quitley's which looks like Jay Leno dressed up like Cyclops

Of course, here I am comparing two artists works when I just stated that's not the thing to do. I guess its just natural to do so.

I've never read anything of Grant's other than an issue of Skull Kill Krew and seen very little of Quitley's art. And while I do agree that Quitley's art is good and complements Grant's writing rather well, the art is just a part of a comic.

If Quitley can't handle the pace of putting out a monthly book, why not just replace him almost completely, you know just bring him out for certain issues that no other artist could do as well?

[ 15-03-2002: Message edited by: Trijhaos ]

16:19 / 15.03.02

Heh. Had to check the date at the start of this thread in order to convince myself it wasn't the exact same discussion we had this time last month...

16:37 / 15.03.02

Unfortunately, it seems when it comes to the discussion of the art in NXM, we're caught in a time loop.

"Oh God! Quitely's not doing the art, its horrible!! horrible I say!!"

14:40 / 16.03.02

I hate to say it, but someone should really take a gander at the preview images at X-fan or somesuch, because this art truely is the worst that has been seen in this book thus far. I liked Kordey's art before, but he seems to have really dropped the ball here. I'm guessing that he's not so comfortable drawing the hardcore sci-fi stuff, as his Shi'ar characters are incredibly stiff and veer towards a rather lame pastiche on Kirby. Maybe two books a month are really too much for this guy.

Matthew Fluxington

14:54 / 16.03.02

SPOILERS.
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I love the cover. "Tater Chips, Part 3".

The composition is a bit off, but it's rendered nicely.

My honest opinion of the interior art by Kordey for this issue: I think it looks fabulous. I like it a LOT. It's old school 70s Marvel, and I love it. I think it's the best art by Kordey that I've seen anywhere.

For the first four pages, go here.

I want to get a t-shirt with the slogan "What is this world of liars?!?"

[ 16-03-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Phantom Waiting 2 B Gripped ]

16:29 / 16.03.02

I've just checked out those sample pages and I think Kordey's work looks great. See? All you had to do was give the guy a chance.

02:26 / 17.03.02

I want Arthur Adams to take it. He seems to be the only person capable of pulling off the Quitely style. Check recent Authority, yah.

z

Matthew Fluxington

03:15 / 17.03.02

Yeah, and maybe they can bring in Travis Charest and Joe Madureira while they're at it, and we can try to figure out who's the slooooooooooowest penciller in mainstream comics once and for all...

[ 17-03-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Phantom Waiting 2 B Gripped ]

Robot Man Reformed

08:50 / 17.03.02

Why be silly, when Ron Frenz can do the job just fine?

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

13:35 / 17.03.02

You know, since Frenz is pretty much a hired gun to ape whatever artist the editor tells him too (It's Thor, dammit, trace some old Kirby!) if they put him on the book, maybe he could do a good job imitating Quitely?

Oh come on.

Well, he's a nice guy to drink a beer with and watch TV.

The art debate for me comes down to the fact that since Quitely can't do a monthly book, give him a 4 issue story arc at the beginning of the year that you know will fit in at the end of the year. Since Morrison is so far in advance on scripts, would it really be a problem to farm out the art to different art teams?

Maybe the days of a "regular art team" are dead.

Matthew Fluxington

14:38 / 17.03.02

Well, I think Grant is going one better by having each story, even if part of a larger storyarch, have its own "feel". I like the palindrome-artist line up on Imperial, I think it makes sense - Quitely/Van Sciver/Kordey/Van Sciver/Quitely.

It's probably better to treat each individual comic as its own entity - it's better for new readers. New X-Men is supposed to be a serial, not just a graphic novel chopped up into monthly installments...

I would encourage them to bring more artists into the mix...in another thread, I mentioned getting big name artist to do one-off issues when Frank isn't on, rather than just rotating Ethan and Igor. Like, for example one issue could be done by Dave Gibbons, or Phillip Bond, or Steve Yeowell, or Art Adams, etc... and they would be hired for stories that would suit their style best. Take advantage of the situation, make it into something that breaks a mold - why does there have to be a "regular" artist? why should every issue look the same?

18:29 / 17.03.02

I know this topic has been done to death, but I've never entered the fray, largely because I'm not buying the New X-Men.

I just don't understand why it's so hard to co-ordinate something like this. I can name loads of comics that had something like a consistent art roster. Hitman and Sandman Mystery Theatre spring to mind.

One thing I was thinking was neat about comics back in the day was that many of them had a back-up feature. As I've discovered via my Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD tpb, when confronted by an artist who couldn't take the hectic pace of a monthly, they'd couple his contribution with a lengthier story. Even Classic X-Men had something like this, with new stories by Claremont and Bolton. Instead of this proposed bi-weekly schedule the Marvel Bosses are proposing, why not have someone who can make deadlines on the main X-Feature, and Quitely on an 8 page backup?

18:45 / 17.03.02

quote:Originally posted by Flux = Sweet City Woman:
isn't Grant's writing enough?

No, it is not. Comics are a graphic medium and good artists make good comics, not just good writers.

That's not to make any comment on the current artist. Yeah, I don't like it as much as Quitely, but I don't think it is the worst drawing we've ever seen.

You know who I would like to see draw NXM? How's about John J. Muth? mmm...

Like it would ever happen.

Matthew Fluxington

18:51 / 17.03.02

quote:Originally posted by Rev. Jesse:

No, it is not. Comics are a graphic medium and good artists make good comics, not just good writers.

Yeah, but Frank Quitely isn't the only good cartoonist drawing New X-Men. I'm in Igor's corner now: I think he's worthy. If they fired Frank and hired Igor full time, I'd be cool with that.

The Natural Way

07:36 / 18.03.02

I wouldn't.

Squelchy faces.

10:14 / 18.03.02

who's the iron guy with the chips?

The Natural Way

10:27 / 18.03.02

Xorn. He's not made of iron, he's wearing a mask. He has a sun for a brain.

11:02 / 18.03.02

what are the advantages of having a sun for a brain? is it something to brag about?

Matthew Fluxington

12:56 / 18.03.02

Well, it's apparently had no negative effect on his intelligence/sentience. He's a pretty bright, articulate fella. And somehow, he can talk.

He's remarkably well-adjusted for a guy who's been locked up in a Chinese prison cell for about 50 years. Despite Cyclops convincing him not to kill himself (and in effect destroying the rest of the world with him), he's a pretty centered guy. For a 64 year old virgin with little to no contact with other people for many years, who's been tortured, and has no head.

Grant hasn't been too clear on what his capabilities - he's just as capable of massive destruction as he is healing and resurrecting life...

14:36 / 19.03.02

Apart from some of the faces Ivan Kordney arts doesn't look too bad. Some of the pages on popcultureshock have a really sense to movement to them which works well with the head of steam the story is building.

I still maintain that they need to get a decent inker to smooth out the roughness. Someone like Al Milgrom would work.

(BTW one of my first thoughts was that some of the panels looked a little like John Byrnes style. Anybody else see this ?)

The Natural Way

06:48 / 20.03.02

Hmmm. Yes. All of the above.

Matthew Fluxington

12:51 / 20.03.02

Always good for a laugh or two.

"Some sort of freak show that never ends..."

[ 20-03-2002: Message edited by: Flux = No Rock n' Roll Fun ]

14:43 / 20.03.02

Just read it.
Mmmmmmmmmmm.
Can't wait for next issue.

Zoom.

15:08 / 20.03.02

Have always dug Morrison's various takes on alien cultures. Too bad Kordey can't draw gnostic demiurges for shit.

Paper quality was better this time around, too.

The Natural Way

11:34 / 21.03.02

Kordey can't draw anyhting for shit. Just what the fucking fuck is going on here? The art fucking sucks - "70's" my arse! I am so pissed off. Flux, you just can't defend this crap. And he's the "A1 artist" now, is he? And just what made the editorial team think "hey, Quitely fans just might like this guys stuff.." Jesus. And he should definitely stay away from action sequences (which is just great 'cause this was the action ep). Arrrgh. I never moan about NXM - I always enjoy it, but this.... God, I don't know if I can go on reading this book w/ this guy fucking screwing it.

Oh well.

Please, let's gang up, bowl over to the Marvel offices and get Kordey off this title.

[ 21-03-2002: Message edited by: You and Runce ]

17:58 / 21.03.02

Actually, I kinda gotta agree. A couple of the shots of Beast and Wolverine tearing into people seemed very unfinished. I wonder if Mr. Kordey would benefit from having someone else ink him?
Ah, I don't know. I can't draw for shit. But I really didn't enjoy his stuff in this issue.

Zoom.

18:40 / 21.03.02

Was G-Type wearing Air Jordans?

19:02 / 21.03.02

quote:Originally posted by Captain Zoom:
I wonder if Mr. Kordey would benefit from having someone else ink him?

I think you're onto to something there. The art would look a helluva lot nicer if it was just INKED better.

Going from the gorgeous art of Frank to the rough art of Igor is just TOO jarring. I don't feel they complement each other at all. You just feel like you really are getting the fill in artist while the real guy takes a powder.

This is widescreen entertainment, not 70's retro...

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