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John Ney Rieber's Captain America

 
 
Murray Hamhandler
09:56 / 09.02.02
Does anyone know much about this? I probably wouldn't have given it a chance back in the old days of Marvel, but what w/X-Force, New X-Men, Howard The Duck, etc., I'm intrigued. I liked Ney Rieber's run on Books of Magic quite a bit. Not so sure what he could do to make Captain America interesting, but I guess I'll give it a shot.
Arthur Sudnam
 
 
Jenny Constantine
13:43 / 11.02.02
quote:Originally posted by arthur_sudnam:
I liked Ney Rieber's run on Books of Magic quite a bit. Not so sure what he could do to make Captain America interesting, but I guess I'll give it a shot.


Same here. Only Cap I've ever read was Waid's but I also liked early Books of Magic. And Cassaday sounded real passionate about drawing it when he came to Madrid last november for a local convention.
 
 
the Fool
09:22 / 12.02.02
Cassaday? as in John, as in Planetary???

[gleeful giggling] really?

It would be nice to get something regular from him for a change (damn you Ellis!)
 
 
Jenny Constantine
09:22 / 12.02.02
quote:Originally posted by the Fool:
Cassaday? as in John, as in Planetary???

[gleeful giggling] really? !)


Yeah, really. Go have a look at this month's Previews... See?

quote:It would be nice to get something regular from him for a change (damn you Ellis!)

I'm sure Warren Ellis has damned his bad health himself quite a few times this past year. I hope 2002 will see Planetary back on track, not to mention the news that broke yesterday about the prestige project with Jerry Ordway, "Planetary/JLA: Terra Oculta", scheduled for late summer.
 
 
the Fool
22:44 / 12.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Jenny Constantine:
not to mention the news that broke yesterday about the prestige project with Jerry Ordway, "Planetary/JLA: Terra Oculta", scheduled for late summer.


Ekkk! pleasure overload!!!
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
23:13 / 13.03.02
Yeah...after reading the John Ney Rieber interview(s) in this month's Comics Journal and this, I think I'm definitely going to be looking into the new Captain America book. Actually, I'm pretty excited about it. I'd forgotten how much I really like Rieber's work.
Arthur Sudnam, II
 
 
moriarty
00:01 / 14.03.02
From Artur's link in the previous post.



Quitely on Cap.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
01:54 / 14.03.02
It should be noted (for those of you who don't go to the Newsarama story) that the Quitely art is from an upcoming Cap anthology mini and not from the upcoming regular series (art by Cassaday).
Arthur Sudnam, II
 
 
the Fool
02:44 / 14.03.02
Bloody cap! Taking up Frank's time! Stopping him working on NXM!!! Its just not on...
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
00:11 / 19.12.02
First story finally ended. A bit of a let-down, unsurprisingly, although I was really hoping for something great from John Ney Rieber. A bit naïve, too. The beginning of the series had led me to expect an anti-Empire Cap, not the same old apologist-Cap. "We don't do that sort of thing anymore", indeed. Gimme a fucking break...

So, yes. I fail to see the point of the revision now.

Is anyone else even reading this?
 
 
bio k9
06:15 / 19.12.02
I'm not but I can tell you: IT SUCKS!

Hi Duncan.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
12:22 / 19.12.02
I'm always eager to be the underdog, but I really like this title.

It's taken me a while to get around to it, what with the whole Patriotic covers (not much of a patriot myself), it made me feel very odd. I really like Cap, but have avoided the series outside of Waid's run because it looked like more of the same. It's a tough comic to like, really, as it can boil down to tough white guy smiles a lot and beasts up stupid looking dudes.

But in the new series, seeing Cap put into difficult situations both physically and psychologically (using the mines in the church and the child amputees as weapons was brilliant as was the talk on the plane regarding the US bombing civies in WW2), I guess, really pleased me. All I read was Waid's run (which I liked a lot) and the Kirby and Steranko issues. I'm not sure I see any revision, but it is a decent read to me and the art is amazing. I met Cassady at a con and he was the nicest guy. We both talked about our love for Cap (that doesn't sound right) and he drew a sketch for me as well.

The first storyline is a bit dodgy since the WTC references were added at the last minute, but I think the problem, as pointed out is the 'We don't do that anymore' speech which made me feel a bit odd. But essentially, I think the comic was just beating the crap out of a villain trying to justify mass murder by saying the US does it as well. And for once, the story holds together as 6 issues going toward a point and standing well on their own (where else outside of NXM does that happen?).

Remember Cap's speech in issue 2 (I think), 'This is not the act of a nation, but of one man.' So, in a sense, it's saying that you cannot battle ideas with people.

I reccomend people read this and if you didn't like it, give it another try. It might improve with a second read.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:46 / 19.12.02
Paul O'Brien weighs in, over at The X-Axis.

Warning: wear eye protection whilst reading this review.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:16 / 19.12.02
Damn you, Fear. I was just going to link that.

O'Brien's merciless critical beatdown is very severe and justified, I think. God bless him.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
13:21 / 19.12.02
Reiber's off the book

"Probably the simplest way that I can describe what happened is that Joe Quesada has a very clear vision about what he wants Cap to be, and my Cap just wasn’t quite what he was looking for."
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:29 / 19.12.02
Again, eager to be the under-dog, but I want to point out that Cap's argument is not a good one. I'm not sure it is supposed to be.

Look at his interaction with Nick and his superiors. He clearly suspects them of double-dealing with the enemy, otherwise what was the point of the segue?

Someone who says 'we never knew' to the villain's claims on assaults on civilians is lying to themselves. Hence the Dresden conversation on the plane. Cap knows about the wrong that America has done. I think Cap is very confused and his view of America is getting very muddy. He is the shield that protects a nation, but I don't think he's very sure about what he thinks of that nation. Like a soldier, he works toward a goal without thinking. If I'm wrong, we're going to see more obvious logical errors in the comic. If I'm right, we'll see Cap's world get muddier still...

I think the reviewer has taken what is a very easy target for a negative review and gotten it wrong. But, it's just my opinion.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:34 / 19.12.02
Feck.

Well, screw my defense then. From what Reiber is saying, I suspect there was a conflict in where to take the series, hence the patriotic slogan at the end. I dunno. It doesn't really matter now, Austin's taking over.

Feck Feck Feck. I hate that guy.

3 bucks a month saved, I guess.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:41 / 19.12.02
Jeezy creezy - how many crappy comics a month can Austen write? I'm sure he's a dependable hack with the deadlines and so the office loves him, but does anyone really like his bland, generic, and extremely weak writing?
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
19:20 / 19.12.02
Well, Rieber's the only reason I would've stuck w/the book. And, yeah, that bit at the end did seem a bit tacked on and, ummm...completely out of sync w/the rest of the story. So up yer ass, Captain America. See you in the funny papers...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:46 / 07.04.03
Some guy's a bit pissed off with Marvel.
 
 
The Natural Way
14:05 / 07.04.03
Hey! Cool! Way to go Rieber!

Can Cap go after that fuck next?

That column had the hot stink of anti-intellectualism, anti-Europe and anti-free speech all over it.

What a fucking pricockunt.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
14:10 / 07.04.03
From the article:

We might expect such blame-America logic from Hollywood activists, academic apologists, or the angry protesters who regularly fill the streets of European capitals (and many major American cities). When such sentiments turn up, however, hidden within star-spangled, nostalgic packaging of comic books aimed at kids, we need to confront the deep cultural malaise afflicting the nation on the eve of war.

Talk about stating the premise! He's absolutely right. We do need to "confront" it. How did he get this far in his argument and not ask "how?"
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
14:26 / 07.04.03
ALRIGHT!

So my comics are worth more now? And people will be borrowing them? Cool cool cool.

This was my take as well on the comic, which was why I liked it so much. It was also very oddly against the propoganda covers as well.

Negative press like this makes me proud to have liked it.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
16:13 / 07.04.03
Medved's article is very typical for his style of writing, "Everyone hates America, they are wrong and we should never EVER think we aren't the most moral, Godly country on the face of the Earth."

My problem with the new Cap series is that the stories are so delayed as to be confusing, the actual stories themselves seem poorly plotted and they are trying to make Cap too many things at once.

Now, a lot of what I don't like is because the character has been handled so well in the past that I wish Marvel had someone who could step up to what could be one of their best characters. Under Kirby, Cap was an archetype of the 30's Depression view of America (young, active, able to find a way to win despite overwhelming odds). Lee found a good hook for the character (man out of his time) and while he filled the pages with endless bellyaching, the stories moved at a fast pace and never stayed still. Englehart turned Cap into a man who was disillusioned with his country (which Cap felt had lost its way and had become almost his enemy during the Watergate era). Waid went back to Kirby's energy and the idea that Cap always finds a way to win, even when facing an opponant that vastly overpowered him.

The current series is muddled...some good scenes and good ideas, but ultimately empty. The most recent story (about a Native who could be considered a terrorist or a freedom fighter) had potential, but was marred by chaging creative teams, shifts in focus and a lack of defined characterization. I don't think the comic should become "beat on the terrorist of the month" as a lot of fans want...but I do think a series that delves into what is Good about America while having Cap comment on what isn't good would be a nice change of pace.

I dunno. Maybe I sound like the resident old Fogey, but Cap should be the one character who doesn't get to be dark and cynical. It doesn't fit him. If I were the editor, I'd pick a solid mainstream action comix writer like Karl Kessel or Adam Warren to write it.

And I'd keep Chuck Dixon away from the character with a gun.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:16 / 07.04.03
I didn't really like this book, basically because I thought it was a really poor apology for itself (I thought it seemed politically/editorially interfered with). But I don't think Marvel can do this "right." They'd have to do Cap as the man-of-action, a rabid commando, or as the man of conscience, who admits that he can't possibly fight for the American Dream with his fists. Either option will pretty much explode the Cap brand.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
16:21 / 07.04.03
I agree with your points, Solitaire, but I think that Cap is at best a mirror of his times, so yes... confused. I think Reiber sculpted what he wanted to be a Cap questioning his country's motives and being so torn inside that we the reader could not relate to him (not a great idea as a writer, but this is my feeling). Queseda, in my mind, stepped in to make it into a pro-USA comic (hence the propoganda covers, etc) and Austin, from what I've heard, is doing standard action stuff.

Steranko did this as well, as did Kirby in the 70's. In the 80's, all I can recall is numerous pics of Cap riding his Harly, smiling... Urgh. Morrison had a very funny take on Cap in Skrull Kill Krew. But all-in-all, I like a troubled Cap, like in Earth-X. When he is unsure of what he is fighting for, he seems to search for a simpler concept (like children) and fights harder. His endurance is what I admire. And he's just a dude!!! You got Wolverine with his healing factor and Iron Man with his suit... Cap's got a frigging shield and a 'hey notice this guy' outfit to make sure he gets fired upon.

What's best is that we have so many great Cap comics to choose from. I like Waid ands Kirby immensely. Looks like we'll have to wait for the 'perfect' Cap comic.
 
 
fluid_state
23:48 / 07.04.03
I'm still convinced that the best branding of Cap is back on ice, baby. Stick him back in the block, and give the shield/mantle/little head-wings to the only character Marvel has that mirrors the state of America: Rick Jones. Sort of a "James Robinson's Starman" thing, with Rick really pissed off at the idea of having to fight for the biggest bully in the world. Tell the brass at Marvel that it's the best way to teach kids about the harsh realities of global politics, and thell the kids that he's the only rebel worth watching: the spirit of America.
 
 
Harhoo
07:31 / 08.04.03
Not read the book and not really likely to. I do find it a tad interesting, however, that Paul O'Brien's review attacks it for being simplistically pro-American while Medved calls it out for being anti-American. Having not read it, I'm unsure whether it means one of the two has got it wrong or whether it just reiterates that reviewers don't leave their baggage at the door. Something tells me that if there is any ambiguity in the title it's unlikely to survive Chuck Austen's run.
 
 
doctorbeck
08:33 / 08.04.03
i read through the trade of captain america response to 11/9 in forbidden planet a few weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised, for a mainstream american media company to be able to be reflective about american foreign policy and it's impact on supposed terrorism and civilians seemed quite remarkable. okay it stops far short of the kind of critique chomsky might make for example but given the context of rampant jingoism and nationalism in which it was written i have so say i think marvel deserve some respect for putting it out

saying that it would have been a far better book if alan moore has written it.anyone remember his Brought to Light comic book about US foreign policy from about 15 years ago? lovely stuff.


andrew
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:18 / 08.04.03
Yeah, it does show the moral morass America is in right now and around 9-11. But... then it socks the baddie on the jaw anyway.

>sigh< oh well.
 
 
Krug
11:45 / 09.04.03
What the fuck is a pricockunt?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
00:01 / 10.04.03
You are.

No, hah hah, I'm only kidding. It was just such a George and Gracie moment I couldn't help it. ManBoyAtComputer, you ignorant slut...
 
 
The Falcon
01:34 / 10.04.03
Runce's review, 'prickocunt' included, said all that need be said about the article.

While perhaps somewhat simplistic, is it not interesting to have the American icon confront the more questionable elements of what he, as a soldier, represents?

Chuck Austen, well, I've not read very much of at all, but he wrote a very ambiguous scene in the latest issue of Uncanny..., which I flicked through in the shop. I'm not entirely sure how many posters here are wholly justified in their perception and opinion of said writer, who I otherwise make no great claims for.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
02:38 / 10.04.03
I think that Austin is the current Chuck Dixon for Marvel. He can put out generally entertaining action adventure stories that meet deadlines. He'll never write anything brilliant, but he also will rarely write a book that is unreadable.

But then again, that's a pretty low standard for a top of the line high buck book, isn't it?
 
 
The Falcon
03:22 / 10.04.03
It's $2.25, which as cheap as you'll get from Marvel.

I'm just obliquely hinting that some posters may not have actually read Austen.

Oh, I forgot earlier, Adam Warren is far too good for Cap. I'd far rather he wrote Uncanny or X-Treme, because he could make either a worthwhile companion piece to New. His Gen13 is something I think a lot of posters here would or could really enjoy - fast, clever fun.
 
  
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