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Underground > Comic Books >

Is Grant's X-Men any good?

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19:43 / 22.01.02

As a fan of Animal Man, Doom Patrol and Invisibles will I like what Morrison is doing on X-Men? I don't know whether to bother. Is it just another shit super-hero thing or does it have ideas?
Thanks.

19:49 / 22.01.02

I like it, there is definitely more going on there than your average superhero book, but i am enjoying xforce more at the moment (these are the only two regular titles i'm getting from marvel at the moment)

Matthew Fluxington

19:59 / 22.01.02

Well, it's a really good comic, that's for sure. It's mainly a big scifi soap opera, with all kinds of typical Grant high concept ideas thrown in to make it that much better. There's a certain bit of Doom Patrol-ness about it, in the sense that there are some similar themes in both. Second to the scifi soap opera thing, the comic is about schools and pacifist heroism...

It's very interesting. When it's drawn by Frank Quitely, it's without question one of the best things currently being published in the industry, end of sentence. When it's not, (like the Germ Free Generation storyline), it is merely just very good.

uncle retrospective

20:01 / 22.01.02

I'm with Sleaze on this one, New X Men is ok. It's got some good bits but is just not as sexy enough for want of another word.
maybe it's just that at a deep level i learned to hate the X men at some point. Maybe it's just a little dull.

X force on the other hand is sex on legs.

01:10 / 23.01.02

It's a decent enough read. While not up to the standard of The Doom Patrol or Animal Man, its certainly head and shoulders above 95% of the market at the moment. Each issue leaves you waiting for the next which is a talent very few books can master these days.

What's hurting the book is that they don't seem to be able to keep a consistant shipping schedule which is making the pacing awkward. 'Germ Free Generation' would have worked alot better if everything came out four weeks apart.

Also the round robin of artist is another factor against the book. If they could come up with a schedule where by one artist takes care of each arc rather than switching halfway through then everything would be much smoother.

While none of this is Grant's fault it does count against what is otherwise an excellent read.

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: rexpop ]

01:42 / 23.01.02

Eh, it's really not that great. There are better superhero comics to buy if you're going to go that route.

The Natural Way

06:49 / 23.01.02

Like what? Apart from X Force, NXM is, for me, the only thing on the racks: it's as weird as a mainstream book can be, totally fresh - I mean, who else is writing anything like it? It certainly doesn't feel/read like a normal "superhero" book. It reminds me of late eighties/early nineties 2000ad. There's a massive horrorshow element no-one's mentioned yet. Another great thing about Grant: he doesn't compromise. He always uses his mainstream stuff to pump out as much strangeness and novelty as poss.

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: Sgunnice Runcheon 'n' ]

12:49 / 23.01.02

Off the top of my head, I can name two books better than New X-Men: X-Force and Captain Marvel. X-Force has been praised enough here at Barbelith so I don't need to explain why it's so good. As for Captain Marvel, it's fucking hilarious. Grant's NXM might be unique, but for me, this doesn't necessarily make a book worth reading. I also don't think Morrison has as firm a grasp of the X-characters as David does with the cast of Captain Marvel.

Matthew Fluxington

12:54 / 23.01.02

[resorting to blatant childishness]Ugh! Peter David? Oh man. Well, at least you didn't mention anything by Staczynski, Bendis, or Ellis...[/resorting]

15:29 / 23.01.02

Actually, childness isn't too far off. David's run on CM is funny and playful. However, at the same time he'll through in serious moments that make you care about what happens. I prefer it to Morrison's NXM, where the characters seem like little more than vehicles for whatever kooky ideas he's come up with instead of fictional human beings.

15:37 / 23.01.02

Although I should add that NXM seems to be picking up and I'm curious as to how everything will play out.

19:05 / 23.01.02

Grant's X-Men is ok, but I'm not enjoying it as much as I enjoyed Doom Patrol, Animal Man, Flex Mentallo, or The Invisibles. I do, however, enjoy it more than his JLA stuff. (And, by the way, my favourite Morrison JLA story remains the one he did about JLA's first headquarters in Secret Origins back before he was doing the regular series).

Personally, I've read my fill of X-Men stories, I think, and Grant's not impressing me enough to keep me hanging around the same old neighborhood. He comes very close sometimes, but, like I say, the above works are better.

And yes, X-Force is better too.

And yes, I'm looking forward to The Fifth. (For that matter, I'm looking forward to the day when I fully and totally understand The Invisibles).

19:57 / 23.01.02

I must confess, though, the sneak preview of NXM 122 looks pretty damn sweet. Quitely's art is stylized in just the right way (for my tastes anyway), and most mainstream art doesn't turn my crank anymore.

Will I succumb and buy the issue after all? Time will tell (I'll certainly skim through it, that's for sure).

Ahem! Yes. Right. Well, it's still not as good as Doom Patrol, et al. But sometimes...

01:23 / 24.01.02

I just can't seem to relate to Grant's X-mens' agendas because they're all 6-foot tall well-adjusted supermodels with superpowers. The mutant concept always seemed so lame to me. I like the evolution message and I can dig Grant's subversive advertising executive slant but it seems a bit patronising to me and I think X-men is (as it should be) slanted toward teen and pre-teen audiences with budding curiosities toward outside knowledge and sexual awareness.

01:29 / 24.01.02

Actually I take back the sexual awareness part, because quite frankly, Frank QUitely depicts unrealistic representations of women and I believe it's more healthy for young men to masturbate to the sears catalogue than x-men comics and playboy. OK I'll stop now.

03:13 / 24.01.02

Good but not great. Will keep me reading comics for a while but would never have persuaded me to start buying them.

And therefore a bit of a disappointment. (has anyone ever had an appointment in Dis?)

Matthew Fluxington

03:23 / 24.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Levon:
Frank QUitely depicts unrealistic representations of women and I believe it's more healthy for young men to masturbate to the sears catalogue than x-men comics and playboy.

You think so? I think Frank's women, as compared to the vast majority of contemporary comics artists on both the indie and mainstream sides of the industry, is pretty good with drawing women... he tends to exaggerate the tallness and thinness of Jean and Emma, but mostly out of artistic license, and it should be pointed out that tall, thin women do, in fact, NATURALLY EXIST. Tall, thin women are not always the result of an eating disorder, in all fairness. He does not exaggerate breast size, he does not emphasize the hips and thighs. What body parts does Frank exaggerate? The neck, legs, and arms. That's just weird, really.

Also, note that does not draw women in overly sexual poses. He draws women's faces in a way much more realistic than most comic artists, i.e. Jean and Emma do not have perfect flawless faces. Other women who are not Emma or Jean are drawn quite realistically.

And please, please, please note that Emma Frost wears more or less the same 'costume' she's been wearing since her introduction over 20 years ago, because she is a FUCKING DOMINATRIX.

It seems weird to argue that you think that the New X-Men characters are too 'sexy' for you when one of Grant's main objectives was to make them obviously sexy...

yawn - thing's buddy

06:40 / 24.01.02

they're too sexy for this comic, too sexy for this comic it hurrrtttssss.....

The Natural Way

07:34 / 24.01.02

And I just don't agree that Grant's "hanging around the same neighbourhood". I couldn't read this book if it felt anything like the X dross Marvel have been pumping out for the last 10 or so years. But, I must confess, I've always looooved the idea of mutants, and, in Grant's capable hands, they've become a neat little metaphor for novelty. I also really dig the way he plays up the horrific elements: there's something quite, ummmm...sublime about his X geners.

[ 24-01-2002: Message edited by: Sgunnice Runcheon 'n' ]

Lennox The Grey Man

14:01 / 24.01.02

Well, I'm really enjoying Grant's run on the NEWXMEN (god, i love the title)

. But what keeps me really upset about it its the artistic inconsistence. In E IS FOR EXTINCTION, we had a really inspired Quitely, and then in the DANGER ROOMS fill-in ish and G-FGENERATION we find instead a PhilJimenez-esque Van Sciver and then Igor (i'm coming, doctor Frankenstein) Kordey... no comments on this subject.

And then the silent issue... god, i can't stop re-reading it one time after another. It's brilliant. Frank really knows how to bring Grant's ideas into pictures. I love his style...

One more Frank-drawn issue to go... and then: ta-daaaaa!... Van Sciver returns

... It was too good to be true...

Returning to the "is newxmen good..." buzz, Grant keeps saying that his intention is to make a 180 degrees turn during his second (last?) year in the title. Well, when he dropped in Animal Man and Doom Patrol we couldn't possibly manage to imagine they'd become such masterpieces through the pace of the story. So, I really trust Grant...

The question is... after his departure, who could posibly fit his huge shoes?

l e n n o x

Matthew Fluxington

14:06 / 24.01.02

I'd like to see Mark Millar move over to the mainstream X-Men title when Grant leaves.

It would not shock me if Marvel tried to get Alan Moore to follow up Grant on New X-Men.

oh man. A Moore/Sprouse NXM...could you imagine?

yawn - thing's buddy

14:08 / 24.01.02

I would like to see Mark millar removed from Earth.

Lennox The Grey Man

14:12 / 24.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Flux = Hasu Kid:
I'd like to see Mark Millar move over to the mainstream X-Men title when Grant leaves.

Yeah, well. I must say I don't really like Mark's UXMEN. I mean, he's a great writer and i loved his Swampy run, but it doesn't quite convinces me...

quote:Originally posted by Flux = Hasu Kid:
It would not shock me if Marvel tried to get Alan Moore to follow up Grant on New X-Men.

oh man. A Moore/Sprouse NXM...could you imagine?

touche and agreed

l e n n o x

17:51 / 24.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Flux = Hasu Kid:

It seems weird to argue that you think that the New X-Men characters are too 'sexy' for you when one of Grant's main objectives was to make them obviously sexy...

Why is it weird to argue that? I can't disagree with anything Grant does?

Well I see what you mean, and I don't mean to sound like a prude because I'm not. I just think that most of us, as comics readers, have been desensitized toward the fucked up depictions of women. FOr instance, both White Queen and Marvel Girl(I do like their code names) have unusually big tits for their frame size. It seems believable that Emma in her vanity would have several procedures done, particularly breast implants, vaginal rejuvenation, nose job. And I would believe that Jean Grey uses her telekinetic powers to hold up her breasts except that they don't have the purple glowy things on them.

18:15 / 24.01.02

quote:
[QB]And I just don't agree that Grant's "hanging around the same neighbourhood". I couldn't read this book if it felt anything like the X dross Marvel have been pumping out for the last 10 or so years. /QB]

I'm not saying the book feels like the last decades X dross. I just don't feel like hanging around the mansion anymore. I've just seen too many X-stories in X-settings in my lifetime, and am anxious to explore new places. Grant would have to be at the absolute top of his game to keep me around. And he's not. He's done better, much better. Don't get me wrong, I think he's done a great job reinventing a lot of things. Head and shoulders above most (hell, MAYBE all) X-stuff. But it's not enough.

And as for Moore, y'know, I don't think I'd be interested in his X-stuff, either. I'd rather read his more ambitious work, like The Birth Caul or Snakes and Ladders (hell, even Promethea).

But that's just me. I'm an odd duck, I am.

Matthew Fluxington

18:25 / 24.01.02

I think the idea of having all of the action center around the school is a pretty brilliant idea, and I can tell you that no one has ever really done anything like what he is beginning to do/planning to do with the Xavier school. I like that the comic is essentially becoming a warped scifi/Invisibles version of Boston Public. I like that a big part of the comic is about education - what other comic has even a slightly serious interest in education and schools?

18:34 / 24.01.02

So yu've not read the Bash Street Kids then?

The Natural Way

08:06 / 25.01.02

But, Troy, yr not hanging around the same old X mansion. The book has a new writer and the whole thing's been turned on its head: new approach to mutants, new themes, new look.... This book is nothing like the old X stuff. My interest isn't exhausted, precisely because everything, apart from the core characters, is so different (and even they've had a face-lift).

And on the sex theme........

Before we get all hung up on the treatment of the female characters, remember: Wolverine get's his kit off at every available opportunity.

[ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: Sgunnice Runcheon 'n' ]

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:17 / 25.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Levon:
I just can't seem to relate to Grant's X-mens' agendas because they're all 6-foot tall well-adjusted supermodels with superpowers.

Even ignoring the inaccuracy of the '6ft tall supermodels' bit for all of them - surely none of Morrison's X-Men team are 'well-adjusted'? Scott's disturbingly cold and teetering on the edge of a nervous breakdown, Logan's a lunatic, Xavier was deeply, deeply repressed to start with and is now in all likelihood hopelessly fucked up, Hank has a litter in his laboratory and is trying to deal with the conflict between his intellect and his increasing... bestiality (and again, has now been fucked with severely by Cassie), Jean's current stability seems to rely on an almost drug-like feeling she gets from periodically turning into an alien deity, and Emma's a scheming, amoral upper class English dominatrix with a literally murderous past. They're all nutters.

And that's even before we get to the new characters...

[ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: Flyboy ]

16:10 / 25.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Sgunnice Runcheon 'n':
[QB]But, Troy, yr not hanging around the same old X mansion. The book has a new writer and the whole thing's been turned on its head: new approach to mutants, new themes, new look.... This book is nothing like the old X stuff. My interest isn't exhausted, precisely because everything, apart from the core characters, is so different (and even they've had a face-lift).

Agreed. And, I admit, Grant comes VERY close to keeping me around for those very reasons. Who knows, in the coming months Grant might bridge that tiny gap and hook me for good. It's definitely possible (of course, it would also help if we got more Quitely issues too).

Matthew Fluxington

16:17 / 25.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:

Emma's a scheming, amoral upper class English dominatrix with a literally murderous past. They're all nutters.

Actually, Emma's from New England...she just affects a British accent, Madonna-style.

Xorn's been locked up in a Chinese prison camp for 50 years. There's no way that guy could be well-adjusted...

Angel's more or less a Jerry Springer castoff...

By the way, Flyboy, you should be writing the character intros in the upcoming trade paperbacks!

[ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Makes Wack Irrelevant ]

17:26 / 25.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:

Even ignoring the inaccuracy of the '6ft tall supermodels' bit for all of them - surely none of Morrison's X-Men team are 'well-adjusted'? [ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: Flyboy ]

I don't know how you can even begin to feel sorry for these mutants when I'm sure you're well aware of the plight of the Moorlocks.

17:34 / 25.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Flux = Makes Wack Irrelevant:
she just affects a British accent, Madonna-style.

ie. Not very well at all.

Matthew Fluxington

18:20 / 25.01.02

I don't know how you can even begin to feel sorry for these mutants when I'm sure you're well aware of the plight of the Moorlocks.[/QUOTE]

Yes, they pretty much get hunted for sport.

Logan's a lunatic

I think that in the context of his entire existence as a character, this is true, but in the comics that Grant has written, much less so. It seems that in spite of his violence, Logan is the most grounded and stable character in the ensemble, with the possible exception of Jean. But I'm sure Grant will remind us that he essentially a maniac sooner than later...

[ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Makes Wack Irrelevant ]

The Knowledge +1

20:49 / 25.01.02

Logan's a short-ass, and a mean motherfucking mutant.

But is he really a mutant? A-ha!

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