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Underground > Comic Books >

War Machine

The Knowledge +1

20:49 / 02.12.01

So why you all be dissing this series hey man?

I liked it from start to finish. Funny, Clever, innovative, the only complaint was that about 10% of the art was cluttered and difficult to interpret, but I'm intelligent enough to figure out what happened from the panels surrounding the mayhem.

#12 consequently, was brill. Doom vs War Machine and a really neat way to finish the series. Apparently there's a new series next year, which promises to feature War Machine against the (hint, hint) racist Tony Stark as he tries to get his armour back.

Favourite bit of the series: That shield fella with the moustache crying in the heat of combat cause he can't handle war anymore. Unexpected, interesting and completely original.

You should all be paying attention to Chuck Austen. He's cleverer than you give him credit for.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

09:06 / 03.12.01

I notice that you still dodge my questions about you working for Wizard Magazine. You totally have Wizard tastes, and write the way that they do about all the things that they like...

I fail to see how War Machine is in any way 'innovative' - other comics have been made with computer art, and plenty of them have had pointless graphic violence, pointless swearing, and big robots blowing things up. And some people have managed all of the above without looking like total crap.

The Knowledge +1

09:20 / 03.12.01

I don't work for Wizard, I just like quality comics, and its true what Grant Morrison said - Marvel is doing nothing BUT encourage their talent to make brilliant, ground-breaking comics. Two years ago I wouldn't have touched a marvel comic with a bargepole. Trust me, I have impeccable taste, my finger is on the pulse of the current cultural climate, etc etc...

Loved war machine primarily cause of the writing, which was funny and clever and always kept me hooked and guessing. It was innovative because it USED the art to dampen, and therefore, for me, heighten the emotional kicks of the series. That, and cause I liked the cool characterisation. And the sick fucking stuff too...

Ronald Thomas Clontle

09:43 / 03.12.01

quote:Originally posted by The Knowledge +1:
I just like quality comics...to make brilliant, ground-breaking comics...

I get the sense that you like hyberbole even a bit more. Maybe I guessed wrong...are you in fact STAN 'The Man' LEE???

EXCELSIOR!

09:59 / 03.12.01

Wow, knowledge, we sure do have diametrically opposite tastes, especially where this book is concerned.

What you see as 'using the art to dampen... the emotional kick of the series' just stricks me as bad art. Its not just that Austin's grasp of anatomy seems to begin and end at copying poses of GI joe toys, its his utterly lifeless page layouts where even emplied movement comes accross as static. This is all the more noticable because Austin is clearly a gifted technical draftsman look at the pages where he is drawing verhicles. top stuff. unfortunately this talent does not translate into an ability to convincingly narrate a story.

On the script i found the dialogue, unconvincing and so wooden it would not have been out of place on the set of 'sunset beach' (the whole ham fisted i'm just trying to be politically correct bit from issue one for example). Even the plot implausible suddlenly negligence leading to the death of a hostige, far from being a bad thing is seen as a posative boon on the road to career advancement within shield.

Where i do agree with you is how fantastic it is to see marvel striving to support its talent and create the best comics it can possibly put out. They don't always succeed but who does? In short despite lacklustre titles such as US WARMACHINEs Marvel is producing the best stuff it has in a decade and more power to 'em.

The Knowledge +1

09:59 / 03.12.01

You wanna throw down with ME, motherfucker?

09:59 / 03.12.01

In my personal opinion, Max's stuff have been dissapointing so far, and War Machine is not an exception. It's amazing how art and script compete to see which one is the worst; it's a bit like Signal To Noise but in reverse. And from what I've seen of Chuck Austen so far, he's no good at writing dialogues; he's not skilled at making a good plot; he's not even an average artist. Whenever I see that comic I can't help thinking "What were they thinking about?".
It's obvious that this Max thing hasn't been a well planned thing; it's more something like Bill Jemas woke up one morning and decided they should go with mature readers stuff, no matter what will they have to publish. All of the initial releases from Max are horrible; Alias is just Powers 2; Fury is just another comic from Ennis who hasn't released a good thing since Jesse Custer came back from Masada in "Crusaders" (well, maybe Hitman had some good moments but that's it), and War Machine, well...Marvel's best stuff is on their PG line; maybe Howard The Duck will be Max's first good thing.
Anyway, kudos to Marvel for letting their writers free; the next step for them should be to let these guys write good non-superheroes stuff; not superheroes with lots of swearing disguised as groundbreaking stuff(like Max's stuff has been so far).

[ 03-12-2001: Message edited by: [N.O.B.O.D.Y.] -Thank You C.A.B.J.- ]

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

09:59 / 03.12.01

Stan Lee's Welsh?

Professor Silly

15:35 / 05.12.01

I too read the whole series, and I agree that the artist's concept of anatomy sucked. I felt excited at the prospect of a weekly book, and now I wish they would have taken the time to make the product better.

Look at the tits, man! They just aren't right!!! The pages had horrible flow, and I can't help but think they could have condensed the whole thing down to six issues, gaining coherancy in the process.

It'll be a long while before I consider getting anything by Chuck Austin--blech blech blech.

Of course, if you liked it more power to you--enjoy the monthly dose of crap when it comes out...I'll stick to quality, like Planetary.

Matthew Fluxington

16:55 / 05.12.01

The thing I don't understand about MAX is why everything is crime/spy/superhero oriented. What's the fucking point of having a more violent/slightlier racier version of what they already do...why didn't they take advantage of having a mature readers line by doing things more along the lines of classic Vertigo (Shade, Doom Patrol, Sandman, Death, Books of Magic, Animal Man) than just more standard issue Bendis-y crap? Does the world really need more of that shit?

Or why not just say "fuck it, let's publish the sorta thing Fantagraphics and Drawn & Quarterly do and see what happens..."...?

The Knowledge +1

20:24 / 05.12.01

I think they should avoid doing vertigoish titles, if only cause they'd get a lot of flack for that and it wouldn't be as challenging for them.

I'd argue that what they're currently doing is taking the obvious choices for maturisation and injecting them to the forefront of the line. War Machine and Fury obviously attract a lot of violence in their books, and swearing, and it's also a kick seeing these well-known pc marvel characters say things like "fucking cunt" etc etc.

Alias - Classic Bendis writing and interesting use of existing characters.

War machine - Innovative and funny, plus all the above comments.

Fury - Ennis having a fucking riotous ball. Funny as fuck and cool as ten. With gorgeous art by Darick Robertson.

For the first three titles to be released, I'd say Marvel have done incredibly well so far.

I'll pick up Cage too, which looks like Marvels take on Shaft, but I'll give Howard the duck a miss, cause I don't like the idea of talking animals. It freaks me out.

Plus I'm looking forward to the new Blade series. Check the first cover by regular cover atrist Tim Bradsheet:

[ 05-12-2001: Message edited by: The Knowledge +1 ]

Matthew Fluxington

20:44 / 05.12.01

So, basically, yr saying you like the MAX comics because they are more or less just crasser versions of what Marvel Knights already publishes. It's more like an R-rated action movie than anything of substance. Nice.

It would be a mistake to go after that weird dresses in black/likes wicca market that Vertigo has always favored, but it would be brave for them to move in the D&Q sort of direction...something more general interest, no magic, no guns, no superheroes, no crime...you know, mainstream fiction stuff. They should give it a shot. If they were serious about being industry leaders, they would.

By the way, personally, seeing the words "gorgeous art" describe the art of Darick Robertson makes me cringe.

Also, what exactly is "innovative" about War Machine, again?

Running down the list...

computer generated comics art: done before

comics about fighting robot men: done before

comics with nudity, extreme violence and swearing: done before

comics which come out weekly and are black & white: done before

fill us all in...

[ 05-12-2001: Message edited by: FLUX = reborn ]

The Knowledge +1

09:14 / 06.12.01

I'll fucking fill you in now you cunt.

But seriously, I thought the War Machine, was innovative because beneath the trashy piss-poor outward appearance of the book, there was a lot of originality and humour - it took the piss out of itself and managed to hold emotional impact, which I thought was a consequence of the juxtaposition of the trashy look with the story, and I've rarely seen that done in comics before. Maybe it was original for me.

09:16 / 06.12.01

again Brian Azerello doing another 'street' comic with Cage does not does not strike me as bold or innovative.

But then again maybe i was expecting too much out of marvel max. I was hoping for mature titles that would stretch beyond the narrow superhero remit mavel has clung to like a drowning man since epic shut up shop in the early ninties.

maybe its really all about producing lowest common denominator pap - the apothesis of the 'comics done in the mould of a hollywood blockbuster' set out by The Authority, without any of the self critiquing subtext of that title.

Maybe it was only ever meant to be 'tits and ass and swearing' like you've never seen it before.

Maybe.

but that's not really much of an achievement is it. I can get that anywhere. I was hoping for something a little more 'mature'.

The Knowledge +1

09:24 / 06.12.01

yeah but what about that fucking cover man???

Maybe you're right about the mature thing, but I'm a young un yet and so my opinion is different. i.e. I like this shit.

Matthew Fluxington

09:27 / 06.12.01

Knowledge, I think yr confusing the words "innovative" and "good".

Yr describing something that is good. Innovative suggests, well, innovation. All of those things yr citing happen all the fucking time in superhero comics, it's no big deal.

Professor Silly

14:15 / 06.12.01

quote:Alias - Classic Bendis writing and interesting use of existing characters.

War machine - Innovative and funny, plus all the above comments.

Fury - Ennis having a fucking riotous ball. Funny as fuck and cool as ten. With gorgeous art by Darick Robertson.

While we obviously disagree on War Machine, I admit I'm still hold hope for Fury (the last panel of the last issue kept me from cancelling the book from my subscription service), and I've really been enjoying Alias. With the latter book, I particularly like the overall feeling of paranoia, and the realism to the main character's actions in dealing with an invisible enemy.

I too had high hopes for the Marvel Max line...as it turns out it the line of mature books has its gems as well as its birdcage liners.

As a final note, I have enjoyed CA's art work on Elektra...which just goes to show that perhaps it's not his ability in question here. Perhaps it's more a matter of how much time and effort he's putting into his work....