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WOW! Comics!

 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
19:46 / 07.11.01
put a pile of Chris Ware, Daniel Clowes, Jessica Abel, Adrian Tomine, Julie Doucet, Charles Burns, Ted Rall, etc comics on a table.

watch people's preconceived notions change dramatically.

it's pretty easy. try it.

PS: post 1000!

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Flux = R.A.D. ]
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
19:48 / 07.11.01
Of course, if they get into comics from that point, they will have to get you to procure them, as the minute they step into an actual fucking comic shop all that good work is going straight down the drain...
Except Gosh, I suppose.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
20:37 / 07.11.01
well, it helps that I live in NYC, where shops like Forbidden Planet, St Marks Comics, etc don't exist for the sole purpose of scaring those who don't play roleplaying games or collect dolls.
 
 
sleazenation
09:19 / 08.11.01
well ltes face it that comic shop opposite the empire state building is hardlythe paragon of comics shops... not to sound snarky but unless the comicshop looks less like an androids dungeon most 'normal people' woun't go there.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:19 / 08.11.01
quote:Originally posted by sleazenation:
well ltes face it that comic shop opposite the empire state building is hardlythe paragon of comics shops...



I've never been there. There's gotta be at least 20 different shops in Manhattan alone, plus a few in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, etc... some fit the 'fatbeard' mold, some are pretty progressive. yr not going to find a lot of the comics I mentioned at the ones that aren't progressive.

somehow, Forbidden Planet just outside of Union Square manages to work every angle, and it works. Easily, it has the highest number of normal and/or cool people shopping there...

either way, I'd just as well people order their comics from Amazon, direct from publisher, or at a Barnes & Noble or Virgin Megastore... I think that buying from outlets like that does the industry a hell of a lot more good than by supporting hobby shops, as perverse at that sounds. I'd rather comics be pushed through as many mainstream channels as possible.
I love the fact that the Virgin Megastore in Union Square and Time Square regularly puts comics on display in the front of the store along with the new cd and dvd releases --- comics by Chris Ware, Daniel Clowes, R. Crumb, Grant Morrison, Julie Doucet, things like the Ultimate comics, Authority trade paperbacks....

[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: Flux = R.A.D. ]
 
 
rizla mission
10:55 / 08.11.01
quote:Originally posted by sleazenation:
not to sound snarky but unless the comicshop looks less like an androids dungeon most 'normal people' woun't go there.


I dunno, I recently visited Nottingham and Page 45 looks so unlike my pre-concieved idea of a comics shop that I walked past it twice thinking it was a fashion boutique..
 
 
Johnny Mother
17:03 / 08.11.01
Yeah, but did you go into the comics shop a door up from it?
 
 
Captain Zoom
17:31 / 08.11.01
My comic store is a very nice place.

Zoom.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
17:53 / 08.11.01
i heard about a comic store in, i think it's georgetown, that is built inside the a second floor walk up that used to be a used book store -- with a fireplace, woodfloors, low ceiling, wooden shelves; it's 85% trade paperbacks and all the monthly stuff is in the back.

that sounds like the goddamn way to do it.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
18:21 / 08.11.01
Captain Zoom, how do you organize yr store?

Do you only stock comics, or do you indulge in the toys and trinkets and video games et al?
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
18:39 / 08.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Gypt:
i heard about a comic store in, i think it's georgetown, that is built inside the a second floor walk up that used to be a used book store
that sounds like the goddamn way to do it.


Shit, I'm in Georgetown right now!
I'll check it out.
 
 
Locust No longer
19:25 / 08.11.01
I know the reason we want "normal" people to buy comics is so that there will be an increased revenue thus the creation of more comics, as well as respect for this amazing art form. But I've realized that I hate "normal" people. The people you want to read comics are the people that made fun of me all through out school for wearing a THB shirt or reading Neuromancer and not being cool enough to go to "alt" shows. This may sound completely irrational but if comics somehow became "cool" to the mainstream It would probably loose a lot of what makes them good. You would get comics more like MTV's The Real World than Acme Novelty Library. Fuck the "normal." People shouldn't have to change what they like, people shouldn't have to feel embarrassed if they enjoy superheros or fantasy books. That's not the problem. The problem is the "normal" people who can't handle anything different. I'm rambling but I'm pissed off about constantly having to change things for the acceptance of people who don't give a shit about any one or anything different anyway. If we lose super heros or the so-called nerdy element of comic books we lose a fundamental part of what comics are and where they come from. Sure, I sometimes want other people to know how amazing comics like Eightball, The Invisibles, and THB are but I'm just sick to death of having to clue people in. Sometimes you just have swallow your fucking pride and "coolness" and just take a chance. If people can't do that, fuck 'em.
 
 
Captain Zoom
09:26 / 09.11.01
Flux, right now it's a little bit of everything. I've got about a fifty/fifty split between used books and comic/rpg related stuff. I've a few toys, but mostly it's monthlies and an ever-increasing TPB shelf. Actually, it's a flipping work in progress every month, but what are ya gonna do?

Zoom.
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:26 / 09.11.01
There's a newish comic Cafe in San Fransisco...

They serve all the Cafe fare... snack and such as well as having Monthly's and TPB's for sale...

There's couchs & tables with books available for perusial...music & such...

about the only thing they need is an internet connection!!!

this is where the Comic shop could go!!!

Mui Hip!!!
 
 
mondo a-go-go
09:26 / 09.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Locustcrashsthorax:
This may sound completely irrational but if comics somehow became "cool" to the mainstream It would probably loose a lot of what makes them good. You would get comics more like MTV's The Real World than Acme Novelty Library.


i disagree. there's a place for everything in comics, and that's why i love the medium so much.

as for the real world, in a way, judd winick's pedro & me has already done that, being both by and about people who were on the show. it's a book that did an excellent job of introducing people to a medium that they had prejudices about, though of course it probably helped that it was published by a book publisher rather than a specialist comics publisher, at least from a distribution angle.

quote: Fuck the "normal." People shouldn't have to change what they like, people shouldn't have to feel embarrassed if they enjoy superheros or fantasy books.

i don't think that's what flux is saying. i think he's saying that there are some books out there (mostly independent, non-superhero titles) that can make people sit up and say "wow. i didn't realise there was so much to comics." i've done this myself recently: one of my friends loves crime/thriller fiction, so i've introduced her to ed brubaker's scene of the crime and the fall, and reccomended that she pick up stray bullets and berlin, since she liked jason lutes' artwork. her boyfriend really liked the stuff i gave her, and is now interested in picking up other books. they've even asked me about local comic stores, so that they can go and investigate stuff for themselves. it's a small step, but they aren't the first people i know who've reacted that way, and they won't be the last.

it's not even about being against superhero/mainstream stuff, it's about clueing people in to stuff they don't know existed. it's about saying: here, there's more to this, and more to me than you thought. you can make your own decision on it, but i know you probably wouldn't have the opportunity if i hadn't left these lying on my coffee table/work desk/subway seat. like he said, it's not hard work. you leave the stuff there and let it work for you.

it helps that a lot of the independent books especially have a better idea of design than mainstream books. anything from drawn & quarterly is always beautiful, right down to the paper stock, and stuff by chris ware, charles burns, evan dorkin, mike mignola etc are all iconic enough that people might find they recognise them, or at least like the look of them.

most of the stores need cleaning up, though. i did a fantastic retailer's corner interview with the guys from page 45 in tart, but it was one of the pieces that disappeared when we got hacked basically, stephen holland is a savvy man, who knows what makes a store appealing to people who don't usually buy comics, and they have a hefty female customer-base as a result.
 
 
CameronStewart
10:31 / 09.11.01
>>>well ltes face it that comic shop opposite the empire state building is hardlythe paragon of comics shops...<<<

If you're talking about Jim Hanley's Universe, I actually think that's one of the better comics shops I've been to - it's bright and clean, there's helpful staff ( I was trying to find some old Jack Kirby book and not only did they phone their other branches, but several competing stores in NY to help me find it), they stock a lot of alternative books and in many cases they organize the books according to genre and/or creator. True, there's a bunch of crap superhero merchandise all over the walls and in the window, but compared to some of the truly embarrassing comics shops I've been in, Hanley's is just fine by me.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
Locust No longer
17:05 / 09.11.01
Kooky,
I'm not saying Flux is saying that, and I understand your point. No, it isn't hard to just leave some comic books about to see if it interests people. However, I still believe that it isn't worth my time or effort trying to convince people of somethings worth if they are too "cool" for it. Don't you ever get bored with having to validate your interests for other people? I sure do. I like punk rock, comic books, free jazz and a whole lot of things "uncool," and I just don't care about convincing them that, yes, it is ok and it does have worth. I'd imagine this may be a different subject altogether and probably not germaine to this thread. Sorry.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
17:18 / 09.11.01
Kooky seems to get what I'm on about... it's about just exposing people to things. I am adamant that if more people were just exposed to a lot of comics, they'd love them. I've gotten a LOT of folks into comics just by leaving them around my place (I used to live in a quasi-communal setting in Brooklyn), having one in my bag when I go out, etc. The comics I mention don't deal with fantasy or scifi or superheroes, and while those aren't always bad things, they are part of a negative stereotype of the medium, and aren't exactly general interest topics.

There's always been this accepted wisdom that superhero/fantasy/crime/horror/sci-fi is the mainstream of the medium because that's what sells the best historically, but I think that's only because the medium has always been a marginalized trash entertainment - I think that if marketed properly and put in the hands of the general population, the general interest, comedy, and literary comics would emerge as the most popular overall, just as in every other entertainment medium...

Why does no one ever think of the fact that superhero comics sell less and less with every passing year as having something to do with the majority of people out there simply NOT WANTING TO READ SUPERHERO COMICS?

I mean, think of it in a different context: jazz music used to be the top selling music in the US, but then was slowly stripped out by rock and r+b etc....the major record labels didn't stubbornly stick to only putting jazz acting against the market...they continued releasing jazz to the niche market that still wanted it, and put out records to satisfy the mass market as the bulk of their operation...

Comics are cool, and beautiful, exciting and smart. It's where the counterculture is, and will be. It's direct expression. It's our job to spread the word. Grant Morrison and Peter Milligan and Mike Allred and Mark Millar etc are doing their missionary work in the mainstream superhero comics, but that's only half of the equation: we need to bring the 'alternative' comics to the point where they outsell the superheroes. That should be the goal, I think. Still, it's not trying to validate what you like to others...it's more about letting people know things exist and make up their own minds, and drawing conclusions about 'coolness' on their own. Locust was going on about how he dislikes 'normal' people, and I can't say I feel so different...they aren't really who I'm talking about. I'm talking about exposing comics to cool, smart, well-read, artsy folks...it's amazing how many of these people are out there, people who are very much the target market for a lot of the comics discussed in this and other threads, and they don't even know these things EXIST.

What a lot of the comics I listed above have in common is that they are well crafted beautiful art objects, and look nice and pretty and attractive. Think of Chris Ware...this man could wow anybody with his attention to craft, detail, presentation, design, color, writing, etc. There's no reason why every kid in every art school in the country shouldn't have a big stack of comics in their room. It's amazing, I know so many illustration and fine art type people who bellyache constantly about how they don't have a venue anymore, that illustration doesn't matter to people, and they are totally ignorant of comics, the one medium where they can shine, let alone by innovative and relevant... I mean, going into commercial magazines or galleries is just asking to become bitter and fucked over, you know?

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Flux = R.A.D. ]
 
 
moriarty
03:29 / 10.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Locustcrashsthorax:
I like punk rock, comic books, free jazz and a whole lot of things "uncool," and I just don't care about convincing them that, yes, it is ok and it does have worth.


I love comic theory, so I'll no doubt enter the fray with something more substantial later. But I'd just like to point out that punk rock and free jazz are genres. Comics are a medium. It would make more sense if you said "I like music, comic books, movies and a whole lot of things "uncool," and I just don't care about convincing them that, yes, it is ok and it does have worth."
 
 
Jackie Susann
21:14 / 12.11.01
Okay, so I've never read anything but superhero comics. Mostly Vertigo-type hipster stuff, but basically superheroes. Can someone please recommend something else because I just don't give a shit about superheroes anymore, no matter how cool they are, but I would still like to read some comics. I'm pretty open-minded about genres and stuff...

...but I do want whole stories, not just instalments (so don't say, like, pick up a copy of 'Arty Comics'; say, get 'Arty Comics' 14-17, or the 'Arty Comics' tpb, so i can read a whole story). And bear in mind that comics are expensive as fuck in Australia.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
14:03 / 13.11.01
actually, i've been posting links about comics up in my blog all day online strips and graphic novels.

today's recc's

old recc's

dunno if that'll be any help to you.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
14:14 / 13.11.01
I would recommend getting these. You can order them all via Amazon or any other respectable online bookseller.

Mirror Window by Jessica Abel

Kill Your Boyfriend by Grant Morrison

Jimmy Corrigan by Chris Ware

Ghost World and Caricature by Daniel Clowes

Sleepwalk by Adrian Tomine

You can order more recent issues of Tomine's Optic Nerve, along with material by Julie Doucet, Joe Matt, Jason Lutes, Archer Prewitt et al directly from Drawn & Quarterly
 
  
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