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creating a super hero lecture

 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:22 / 28.09.01
Today I was asked by a former professor of mine to help her put together a session lecture about superheroes and comic books as a part of her class about fairy tales.

I'm not sure exactly how to fill up two hours or so of lecture time at the moment...there's so much that could be said, I'm trying to figure out how to approach this - I'm fairly certain that I'll try to focus the discussion on early Marvel comics, the Stan and Jack era, as that seems to not only be the most fertile ground for discussion and interpretation, but also something most people have some knowledge of...Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, the Incredible Hulk, the X-Men. All of the sexuality metaphors, adolescent angst, and cold war era politics are right there, you know?

I'm open to any suggestions and ideas you may have...
 
 
Ganesh
09:35 / 28.09.01
You could try breaking it up into 'Ages', as Morrison did with 'FLex Mentallo': the 1950s/60s Golden Age, bright with newly-minted innocence; the Silver Age of the 1970s, trippier plotlines, space-age battles; the 1980s 'Dark Age' with all the 'gritty' reinvention; postmodern NOW, with eclecticism but no particular movement or 'direction'. These Ages correspond with childhood, puberty, post-adolescence, etc., etc.

Okay, maybe not such a good idea...
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:51 / 28.09.01
That is one way of doing it, and it occured to me straight away, but I'm thinking that it's too much information for a lecture that would be under three hours... if I was to put together a course on the subject matter, I would certainly do it that way. I think the trick is to integrate it into the course as easily and obviously as possible... if we are coming at this as being a modern form of mythology and fairy tale as I know that she wants to, it doesn't make a lot of sense to get bogged down in the technicalities of history so much as key tropes are recognized, and good character/story examples are talked up - going about it the way you've suggested brings the creators and the marketplace into the equation when it isn't necessary. Still, I think the idea of a comic book universe should be stressed, as it has an interesting relationship to the oral tradition, and the concept of having a world in which many different people create and mantain a 'world' of characters and concepts that serves itself as well as being a weird democrative collective sort of thing...
 
 
Ofermod
09:51 / 28.09.01
Eco wrote an essay on the early Superman stories regarding the way time passed and (if I recall correctly) how this passage of time was similar to that of mythological stories. I think I still have the book it is from, but I'm at work and it is at home. I'll take a look at it and let you know the name of the essay tomorrow.

[ 28-09-2001: Message edited by: Ofermod ]
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:51 / 28.09.01
hey thanks, man...

if anyone can think of any essays of some kind of reasonable length (under 30 pages in length...these are art students!) that can maybe be given to the class a week in advance to bring them up to speed on the history of comics, let me know about that too...
 
 
Saint Keggers
09:51 / 28.09.01
I saw something on PBS with Joseph Campbell being interviewed by Bill Moyers and he talked about comic books being the natural evolution of mythology. How every superhero can be traced back to a mythological counterpart. I think it was called Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myths.
 
 
Ofermod
09:51 / 28.09.01
Yeah, the Campell/Moyers interview was published as a book titled The Power of Myth. It should still be in print as an oversized soft cover. I know he makes Star Wars references in it, maybe a superman reference also.
 
 
DrDee
09:51 / 28.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Ofermod:
Eco wrote an essay on the early Superman]


There's a whole set of essays about popular icons (including Superman and Batman) in Eco's "Apocaliptic and Integrated" - which should be easily available through academic libraries (as it's Eco's best work).

Hope this helps
 
 
sleazenation
09:51 / 28.09.01
Roland Barthes book of short essays (each around 3-4 pages long) entitled mythologies could well be helpful especially the chapter on the rocketman...

and of course there is the Russian Formalist Vladimir Propp whose analysis of the plot devices of russian folktales is equally applicable to superhero narratives.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
09:51 / 28.09.01
Um, nick a copy of whathisnames 'Understanding Comics' and plagiarise that?
 
 
grant
16:39 / 28.09.01
See if you can get Steramko's "History of Comics" - it details the development of Golden Age Comics of the 30s/40s (sorry, you're off, Ganesh, by a decade or so) out of the pulps, into the weird flowering of (Marvel-led) Silver Age sci-fi weirdness in the 50s & 60s.
Two volumes of large format magazine/booklet things. Sometimes, the discussion of business decisions & interpersonal conflicts gets a bit dry, but it gives a window onto the early days of comics socially AND psychologically. And it mentions bajillions of characters you hardly ever see any more (like the Human Bomb, the original Marvel Boy, Bulletman... all kinds weird characters).

(Note: a lot of the early superhero stuff seems rather adolescent because it was, in fact, created by adolescents - 16-18 year old kids, eager to become "writers" or "artists".)

Wish-fulfillment, the dreams of fascism, pulp action & imagination (which was much more taboo then than now).
 
 
Ofermod
19:40 / 28.09.01
The Eco essay I was thinking of is "The Myth of Superman." I have it in a compilation of theory and criticism book called The Critical Tradition from 1989. It is also in Eco's The Role of the Reader: Explorations in the Semiotics of Texts from 1979. Hope this helps.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
22:36 / 28.09.01
Scott Mcloud's understanding comics

Warren Ellis's 'From the desk of Warren Ellis' is good.

Any Grant Morrison interviews are ripe with possiblr quotations.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
01:20 / 29.09.01
The kid's making sense for a change...
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
03:56 / 29.09.01
quote:Originally posted by The Knowledge +1:

Warren Ellis's 'From the desk of Warren Ellis' is good.


Are you serious? I've got the collected volume (Come In Alone), and I can't imagine ANY of that making sense to *anyone* who isn't extremely up on their history and the detailed politics on the industry, it's so insider that it boggles the mind at times...

and on top of that, I'd hardly want to potentially introduce people to an entire artform via the curmudgeonly rantings of a man like Ellis...

[ 29-09-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]
 
 
Hush
07:34 / 29.09.01
I hate Lectures, and I used to hate sitting thru them even more.

And it seems very odd to stand up and talk at length for a period of time about a medium that works best in high intensity short flashes.

And although there are many good books around to discuss ideas from the best source material is your own enthusiasm.

And the better format would be one in which the audience breakdown into small groups, have a look at something good (could be technical: like the use of lettering in Sandman, or the use of page layouts to create suspense or the way Grant Morrison always gives you the punchline real quick cos he's just so keen to get onto the next idea) or something ideational, or something you love and ask them to guess why you like it:- Then give feedback to a reconvened large group.

And give them a follow up activity, and a reading list, which ought to include great comics and the books mentioned above. And this website.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
05:47 / 30.09.01
I am inclined to agree that the more you stick with the characters that absolutely everyone knows something about, the better. Spiderman, The Hulk, Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman... given the movie, you could get away with some X-Men too, if you speak generally. If you stick with characters that you can expect your audience to have a good grasp of, you can add weirdnesses around them without losing too much in trying to explain things; for example, everyone knows who Superman is already, so you can explain the story arc in which he's killed without losing people, and from there you would get to compare the Man of Steel to Christ or Mithras if you felt like it. (Although, Watchmen might be worth explaining if you can give broad strokes and discuss primarily how the fantastic elements of comics rub shoulders with a realistic setting and things get ugly.)

You might organize themes or periods by nailing each one to a single character. For example, discuss Golden Age by talking about Superman, the Silver Age with Spider-Man, the Dark Age with Batman. That could help to make the transitions more obvious to laypeople.

And while it might be fun to talk about modern comics, I think that if you don't expect your audience to be very comic-savvy, I think you could still impress them with Sandman as "new(er)", less kid-associated comics. Midsummer Night's Dream would be ideal.

Ooh... it occurs to me that you could make a nice little circle by starting with folk and fairy-tale heroes that are reminiscent of comic heroes, like Hercules or Cuchulain (or Thor might be an obvious choice, I don't know what he's like in comics), then segue from there into comic book heroes (most of the lecture), and from there into Sandman and Midsummer Night's Dream which runs you right back into fairy-tales about honest-to-God fairies.

Just thinking out loud, hope some of that might be useful.

PS - Scott McCloud compared Egyptian hieroglyphics to comics, if I remember right... then there's the Stations of the Cross (right?)... so if you so desire, you have ancient superheroic folk heroes + ancient sequential art that tells a story = the inevitability of modern comics, rawr!

[ 30-09-2001: Message edited by: doubting thomas ]

[ 30-09-2001: Message edited by: doubting thomas ]
 
 
grant
14:58 / 01.10.01
Oh God, I just thought of it...
those mind-bending bits in Chris Ware's Acme Novelty Library where the young Jimmy Corrigan meets Super Man in the mall and then catches him sneaking out on his mother the next morning. I'm sure that sequence is short-story sized, and would make excellent homework reading.

Ooo - and maybe one of the short Barry Ween stories in that recently published collection. Judd Winick - he writes the heroes, and then he writes the funny stuff.

I suppose these all fall in the category of "post modern myths".

It might also be worth spending some time discussing the concept of continuity - you could relate it both to them Norse sagas and to soap operas. Maybe even draw a thread to Dreamtime, although that'd be more tenuous.

[ 01-10-2001: Message edited by: grant ]
 
 
matsya
12:55 / 02.10.01
yeah WAAAAY more tenuous, given that I can't imagine what kind of connections you think you're drawing there...

oh, hi, grant. owe youa mix tape, don't i?

m.
 
 
grant
17:19 / 02.10.01
the tenuous connection would be that both comics continuity and Dreamtime are cyclical, in a way: at one time episodic and static. Superman has adventures. But he never gets old. At least not for very long.
Spiderman never turns 40. That sort of thing.

And I don't know if you owe me one or not, but I'm always willing to solicit the Australian independent pop.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:44 / 02.10.01
Um... well I would surly push for some of the Power of Myth or even Hero with a Thousand faces to pull some of the Hero's quest aspects of Comics...

Possible equivilants between the fariey tale's Magic items i.e. Sword, lamp, ring, etc... and the comic equivilant of "super" technology Iron Man's suit, Green lanturn's ring, Batman's utility belt...

Perhaps also a parrallel between Faries & Aliens...

I think a mention of the "MEDIUM" of the comic book ala Understanding comics or Eisner's Sequential Art could also be of value...

I would guess alot of it would depend on what's been covered already in the context of a study of Fariey Tales already...

sounds like a fun class...

Can you use Slides? The Pictures are a must...

Plus... make sure they read [i]The Invisibles[/b] for homework!!!

 
  
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