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Underground > Comic Books >

How Caitlin Kiernan Killed The Dreaming

Ellis

19:57 / 27.07.01

From Ninth Art

quote: Brothers and sisters, sit with me and I will tell you tale. This tale is a lament to a dream conquered and an ode to an age long past. What you read now is a heartfelt dedication to an idea, which has suffered a painful death. Yes, I speak to you of THE DREAMING.

THE DREAMING was a monthly comic book series from DC Vertigo that ran for 60 issues between June 1996 and May 2001. The series was an attempt to creatively describe the place that we all go to when we sleep. It was an artistic endeavour to walk around the uncharted territory that lies behind our eyes. THE DREAMING tried to graphically examine the subconscious, by representing the unrepresentable. It was an imaginary place, which was "a fertile plain... for writers and artists to explore" (THE DREAMING #1).

Neil Gaiman (AMERICAN GODS, NEVERWHERE) originally created the Dreaming as a vast landscape to be partially explored in his monthly, eponymous comic series THE SANDMAN. The Sandman, or Morpheus, as he is otherwise known, was the ruler of this magnificent kingdom. Gaiman gradually developed the Dreaming through Morpheus' various interactions with dreamers. Depending on where the dreamer had come from, the style and content of that particular tale varied. Just as we all are very different people and have very different dreams, Gaiman made sure that the Dreaming reflected individual desires. After all, no two dreams are alike.

More in link

07:17 / 28.07.01

Interesting article on Alan Moore and Prometha on the same zine.
I can't really comment only having read the first TP but has the book become a vehicle for Alan Moore to lecture us on his personal philosphys, I hope not. What do people think?

uncle retrospective

08:11 / 28.07.01

Caitlin Kiernan didn't kill the dreaming it was still born.
I loved Sandman lots so I put my order in my local comic shop.

And it sucked, the first story was rubbish, the art was rubbish and I hated the way the comic became nothing but Cain and Able monthly. I'd stopped by issue 8 and glad to be rid of it.

08:18 / 28.07.01

quote:Originally posted by invisible_al:
Interesting article on Alan Moore and Prometha on the same zine.
I can't really comment only having read the first TP but has the book become a vehicle for Alan Moore to lecture us on his personal philosphys, I hope not. What do people think?

I've also only read the first trade, but this idea doesn't bother me much - I quite enjoy all of Moore's meta-physical magickal shit.

08:34 / 28.07.01

I agree with the article in some respects- Echo, Echo, Echo, everywhere with Echo! I tried to follow the book in the begining, but eventually started buying it only when I needed a fix of the gothic. Then I started to realize it was always in the same story arc as when I'd last picked it up. Feh.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:40 / 28.07.01

I agree with Uncle Retro- The idea of the dreaming was crap before they decided to give it to Kiernan. And I feel the criticism of her work is unfair, not because I think she's a good writer but seems to be more of the 'Kiernan is not a good writer because she's not neil Gaiman'.

Ganesh

20:14 / 28.07.01

What surprises me is that some people were apparently surprised. There's certainly an established tradition within comics of encouraging lesser writers to develop derivative spin-offs of the original story or character; it was so blatantly apparent, though, with 'Sandman' that it wasn't going to work. Clothe it in all the McKean covers you like, but was 'The Dreaming' ever not gonna be crap?

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

04:03 / 29.07.01

Oh fuck.

Cait did not "kill" the Dreaming. For God's sake, it was already a mess before she got to it. She was asked to supply some continuity and when she did as they asked and actually gave it somewhat of an arc, then I am sure those who were hoping against hope that it would be Gaiman-like (which is to say, most of the readers), then they were sorely disappointed.

Ganesh

07:50 / 29.07.01

Yeah, because it plainly wasn't gonna be 'Gaiman-like', whoever they brought in. You'd think they might've learned from similar travesties ('Doom Patrol', 'Animal Man') where less able writers tried to be 'Morrison-like' - with hilarious consequences.

11:05 / 30.07.01

Bah. I liked the original idea, but stopped caring once it had continuity. I hope Sandman Presents works out, though... it's what I wanted The Dreaming to be.

15:04 / 30.07.01

That's an interesting point. Isn't "Sandman Presents" just The Dreaming repackaged and given over to a rotating series of creators? I never did get into reading The Dreaming, so I don't really know the difference.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

16:36 / 30.07.01

You've pretty got that right, sir. The Sandman Presents....is just the Dreaming was in the beginning, a rotating series of artists and writers venturing into different minor characters from the Sandman.

Still hasn't stopped me from submitting my script, though.....

16:48 / 30.07.01

It shouldn't. I think it's a great idea, at the core - the exploration of an essentially infinite realm, packed full of the symbolism of dreams.

15:36 / 31.07.01

Word to Ray. Great idea, poorly carried out, then set on fire.

15:36 / 31.07.01

What's teh submission info, by the way?

17:48 / 31.07.01

I only sat down to read two issues. one, the first part of a storyline by a creator who I really admire... and did that dissapoint... to a shocking degree.

the other by Jeff Nicholson (written, drawn and colored) I surprisingly loved. I can't recall the title but it featured Jack Pumpkinhead... if that helps...

00:07 / 01.08.01

The only Pumpkinhead-related Sandman Presents I can think of was "Merv Pumpkinhead: Agent of Dream" (Bill Willingham - writer, Mark Buckingham - pencils, John Stokes - ink). I liked it, though I liked the Lucifer miniseries better. Haven't looked at the ongoing Lucifer.

And, yeah, Sandman Presents is basically The Dreaming as intended, except it's an every-so-often book rather than a monthly title. I want an Eblis O'Shaughnessy story, goddammit.

00:07 / 01.08.01

quote:Originally posted by Kali:
Still hasn't stopped me from submitting my script, though.....

I've been having a few ideas for a possible Sandman presents - been kinda scribbling them down rather directionlessly for a while. Any chance one of you kind people could give me the address for submissions - if I pull my finger out my arse and get down to it I might have something worth considering, so wouldn't mind sending it off, for the hell of it.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

12:00 / 02.08.01

quote:Originally posted by doubting thomas:
And, yeah, Sandman Presents is basically The Dreaming as intended, except it's an every-so-often book rather than a monthly title. I want an Eblis O'Shaughnessy story, goddammit.

Eblis did make an interesting appearance in Cait's miniseries, The Girl Who Would Be Death.

And submission info is somewhere on the DC/Vertigo website, I believe.