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Miracleman - The Plot Thickens

 
 
moriarty
18:10 / 23.07.01
About a week ago I posted a topic about Public Domain superheroes. I was wondering how people would feel about the use of a character that was no longer in use, and if this was morally wrong. I mistakenly used Miracleman as a point of reference, stating something to the effect that if it was up in the air, anyone could use the character. The replies were interesting, and helped me form my views on this possibility. However, I found that the topic was veering into becoming a Miracleman thread. I was told that not only would using a public domain character be morally wrong, seeing as someone who was no doubt underpaid and unappreciated and I would effectively be robbing them again, but to do so on Miracleman would be a big ol' slap in the face to Neil Gaiman. I saw this stance as being a bit odd, and tried to present my case, but found that I really should get some actual evidence to back it up. So here's a proper Miracleman thread.

If you need to bone up on the tangled history of Miracleman, you could do worse than to check here.

1) Moore (or Gaiman) was the creator of Miracleman.

Gaiman did not create Miracleman. Moore did not create Miracleman. In fact, Gaiman was not even born before the creation of Miracleman, and Alan Moore would have to have been a one year old genius to have invented the character. A man named Mick Anglo created the character in 1953. The idea that Neil Gaiman holds the rights to Miracleman because Alan Moore gave them to him ignores the fact that Alan Moore got those rights from someone else. If your definition of "creator" is so broad as to include people who worked on the title as it progressed, fair enough. But neither of the writers on the 80's version of Miracleman were the "original creators".

2) Gaiman legally owns Miracleman

No creative person has ever owned a majority of the modern version of the character Miracleman. Gaiman currently owns half of one-third. He also has temporary control of Buckingham's half of one-third. McFarlane owns two thirds, which he bought entirely legally, just as legally (supposedly; see below) as Dez Skinn, the first publisher of the modern day Miracleman bought his.

3) Dez Skinn acquired Miracleman legally

It is unknown whether Dez Skinn actually bought the rights to Miracleman from Mick Anglo, or if he just assumed that the rights were up in the air and picked them up for nothing. Either way, there is the possibility that Dez Skinn never actually had the rights to Miracleman, and therefore neither did Moore, Gaiman, McFarlane, or any of the other creators on this project. Technically, Anglo's rights may be cast aside due to the fact that he has not fought to reclaim them. Morally, however, what has happened to Mick Anglo is just a little dubious, and has been almost completely ignored.

4) Gaiman agreed to exchange Angela for Miracleman, but McFarlane backed out.

According to the Neil Gaiman, “Todd promised, in writing, that he would give me all his rights to Miracleman, pay me for his use of Angela, Medieval Spawn and Cogliostro, pay for the reprints of the stories I'd written in graphic novel form in the U.S. and all over the world and so forth. I was relieved there was some kind of agreement.”
The writer says he still has the written agreement. “He sent the film for all the Miracleman graphic novels over," Gaiman said. "I put it in the basement, and sent him a fax asking for a transfer of rights in writing and for him to clarify that he held clear title to Miracleman through Eclipse, so I could do something with it. I never heard anything from him. And I should have figured out something was wrong when the payments stopped.
”In February of 1999 I got a letter from him out of the blue saying he'd thought better of the agreement and would give me the rights to Miracleman in exchange for me giving him all the rights for Angela. This seemed kind of weird, as he'd already given me the rights to Miracleman. Either way, he's never replied to any other letters from me or from my lawyers trying to get to the bottom of any of this.”
As far as Gaiman is concerned, the agreements are still in effect even though McFarlane has not responded to requests for clarification.
“Yes, I have agreements on this from Todd, and yes, I have the film in the basement. Whether these are worth anything is anybody's guess."

Gaiman would later state that "He gave me his share of the rights in exchange for all my share in the Cogliostro character in 1997."

This seems to be a pretty sneaky tactic on McFarlane's part, if it is true. He seemed to have changed his mind about the exact terms of the trade midway through, and upped the ante. While this may be morally dubious, let it be noted that Gaiman could have conducted a trade between Angela and Miracleman but chose not to. This isn't to suggest that Gaiman made a bad decision, but to show that this whole mess could have been sorted out if he had taken the deal.

I realize that this may be a little too detail conscious, but this situation is like a comics JFK conspiracy. The more I read, the more I learn, and the more I want to learn. I'm finding that the business of comics is becoming almost as fascinating to me as the comics themselves. So, sorry if I've bored you.

The reason I've posted all this is because I find the overwhelming positivity towards Gaiman to be a little on the ridiculous side. It seems that the reason most people want Gaiman to claim (not reclaim) the rights is simply because he's a good writer and McFarlane is not. The same people who protest Mcfarlane's buying Miracleman instead of having those rights given to him by Gaiman forget that Dez Skinn, and by association Moore and Gaiman, bought those rights themselves. Or they just took them because they were there and no one was using them. The same people who say that McFarlane should not hold the rights to Miracleman because he will change the character to something other than what Moore and Gaiman had planned forget that Moore and Gaiman did the exact same thing to Anglo's version of Miracleman, and to an extent that was probably more radical than McFarlane's treatment will be. And those same people go on to say that if McFarlane wanted a Miracleman-like character, he should have just left Miracleman alone and made a copy. Of course, Moore had that same option when he purloined Miracleman himself in the 80s.

None of this is to suggest that Moore and Gaiman are morally in the wrong. Only that they seem to be on the same moral footing as Mcarlane as regards this character. I dislike McFarlane for his previous dirty dealings with Gaiman and other creators. And I would hope that he would not only pay the other co-owners a share of the profits from his recent recreation of Miracleman, or better yet, wait to publish new Miracleman stories until after this mess has been sorted out in the courts. So, yes, I do believe McFarlane should not be publishing the issue of Hellspwan with Miracleman, and I will not be purchasing this issue. But this does not mean that I believe his case is totally without merit.
 
 
Ganesh
18:28 / 23.07.01
Cheers, Moriarty, it's surprisingly compelling stuff - as you say, as murky and convoluted as any conspiracy theory. I suspect many people (myself included) allow their ethical judgment in these matters to be clouded by anticipatory fanboy drooling at the thought of what Alan Moore, say, or Neil Gaiman could actually do with the character, conveniently turning a blind eye to the little maybe-hypocrasies involved.
 
 
Templar
19:36 / 23.07.01
I'm hoping they'll sort it out with a Celebrity Deathmatch style fight to the finish:

In the red corner, weighing a little over 9 ounces, using only the power of the wyrd, Neil Gaiiiiiman.....

And in the blue corner, weighing about the same as a small South American country, with powers gifted to him to Satan himself, Todd Spawn Mcfarlane...

McFarlane finally gets Gaiman pinned down ("Or have I only let you think that you've won?") only to have Alan Moore jump in at the last minute and use his living beard (actually an alien skin graft) to thrown McFarlane out of the ring.

The winner: Alan Moore.
 
 
sleazenation
07:48 / 24.07.01
A little bit more info

Dez skinn in his current comics magazine Comics International stated earlier this year that he paid Mick Angelo a reprint fee for the work of his reprinted but didn't pay to use the character assuming ownership through use or a slightly visually different marvelman. (the same thing that McFarlane is doing)

But before anyone starts to feel too sorry for mick Angelo his marvelman resulted from a dispute in america between DC and Charlton (then a seperate company) DC alleged that Capt. Marvel (Shazam) was a rip off of superman. I believe Charlton settled out of court. In the UK Capt. Marvel reprints were doing a roaring trade and with the american source set to dry up (and the possibility of legal action from DC) the UK reprinter turned to Mick Angelo to create a version of Capt. Marvel in all but name and look- a deliberate carbon copy of an existing hero rather than a creation in its own right.
 
 
moriarty
11:38 / 24.07.01
The Superman/Captain Marvel thing is what interestd me in Miracleman in the first place. This situation stretches back all the way to the advent of superheroes. It's like a little history of comics in a way.

The DC/Fawcett thing was a real tragedy. Captain Marvel was by far different enough to merit being considered a completely different creation. Someone posted on this board before that Superman/Captain Marvel/Miracleman were all based loosely on the same superhero types, and therefore copying was fair game, so long as there were differences.

All that said, I think Anglo made enough changes to Miracleman, in costume if not in origin, to merit him being a completely different character. If not, then DC, the current owner of Captain Marvel, has a legal right to go after the current rights to Miracleman.

The changes Moore, then McFarlane, have brought on Miracleman are so minute as to be neglible. They are relying on the past history of previous incarnations of Miracleman to fuel their versions.
 
 
sleazenation
15:31 / 24.07.01
I'd agree that McFarlane is attempting to flog hellspawn (while its sister title spawn has recently slipped out of the top 10 comics) on the back of Moore and Gaiman's work - which is what really has caused the interest in the character.

But Moore took a pretty obscure character (certainly unknown to american readers) that had been out of print for almost 20 years and made him relevent.

The difference, i guess, is that Moore's run was the one that generated interest in the comic- if his and gaiman's run's had not occured then no-one would care about MM.
 
 
King Mob
19:17 / 24.07.01
Wait...

So is it morally wrong of me to buy the Hellspawn comic with MiracleMan in it just because i want to see ashley woods' art?
 
 
sleazenation
07:29 / 25.07.01
weither you buy hellspawn, as with any other product is entirely up to you.

If you feel strongly that you don't want your money to go to a publisher you might view as morally questionable that is entirely up to you.

Its an interesting question--

Personally I plan to at least look at the issue in the shop when it comes out but don't plan to spend money on it - mainly because I believe that the story will be stbstandard an derrivative.
 
 
moriarty
12:33 / 25.07.01
What Sleazenation said.

Gaiman has called a boycott, if not for his sake, then for Buckingham's.

I'm not picking it up because, unlike you, I never pick it up. Purchasing it for Miracleman alone seems a little too much like morbid curiosity to me. But I would be lying if I didn't say I was very tempted and will probably leaf through it in the shop.

If I knew that Gaiman and Buckingham were getting a portion of the profits I might think differently.

quote:Originally posted by sleazenation:
The difference, i guess, is that Moore's run was the one that generated interest in the comic- if his and gaiman's run's had not occured then no-one would care about MM.


I agree with what you're saying, Sleaze, but I think it's just a matter of degrees. No one would care about MM? Alan Moore obviously did, or he wouldn't have used him. And I'm sure the kids of his generation had a fondness for Miracleman, as well. There's even a website devoted solely to the original Miraclman. These fans (or former fans) just aren't as vocal as the nu-fanboys. It doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
 
Funktion
05:44 / 13.02.03
It's a shame that all this drama is preventing a re-publishing of Miracleman....

Alan Moore's work was such a classic in-depth view of the super-hero concept written with a concise and powerful story...

Gaiman's Golden Age , which some old fans didnt like, was great for totally different reasons in my opinion...

---------------------
then all delight was ironic, satirical,
glory the mIracle...
 
 
matsya
00:21 / 17.02.03
anyone know anything about recent issues of hellspawn solicited as "the battle between miracleman and hellspawn"?

m.
 
 
dlotemp
18:50 / 17.02.03
Moriarty -

I just wanted to point out an error in one of your earlier statements. You wrote - "[McFarlane} seemed to have changed his mind about the exact terms of the trade midway through, and upped the ante. While this may be morally dubious, let it be noted that Gaiman could have conducted a trade between Angela and Miracleman but chose not to. This isn't to suggest that Gaiman made a bad decision, but to show that this whole mess could have been sorted out if he had taken the deal." That's not exactly true. You quite rightly acknowledged that Gaiman and his lawyers allege to have attempted to contact Mcfarlane several times for clarification on the matter and never received feedback. Consequently, there is no way he could have taken the deal; furthermore, it would have been unwise to accept a revised deal when the co-dealer has changed their minds once already. This doesn't change the major points of your post, but I thought you'd appreciate someone pointing out the inconsistency.


"The reason I've posted all this is because I find the overwhelming positivity towards Gaiman to be a little on the ridiculous side. It seems that the reason most people want Gaiman to claim (not reclaim) the rights is simply because he's a good writer and McFarlane is not."

Personally, I wanted Gaiman to win because I hate a welcher. ;-) But Gaiman wants the profits from his court case to go to the CBLDF. It's hard not to root for a guy who gives of himself like that. Of course, Mcfarlane may be involved with charities but who knows?

"The same people who protest Mcfarlane's buying Miracleman instead of having those rights given to him by Gaiman forget that Dez Skinn, and by association Moore and Gaiman, bought those rights themselves."

Are people really protesting Mcfarlane's purchase? That does seem a bit naive since just about any commerical product, like Miracleman, is for sale.
 
 
PatrickMM
20:58 / 25.02.04
The Miracleman case looks like it's basically been resolved, as judges seem to have sided in Gaiman's favor, while simultaneously finding out that McFarlane never actually had any rights to Miracleman. I'm not really sure, but Gaiman seems quite happy, and it looks like the book will be back in print.

Even though this means the $100 I spent on the Alan Moore run was basically wasted, I'm still really happy, becuase the book deserves to be read by more people. Plus, I really want to read The Silver Age and the end of Gaiman's run. And, from there, it would be cool to see other top creators take on the title. I know GM wanted to write it back in the 80's, and I'd love to see what'd he do with the title now.

Also, I think Miracleman is one of the few top tier comic books that really lends itself to a film adaptation. Matrix: Revolutions showed that the level of superhero fighting needed to adapt it is doable now. Unlike most comic book series, it's fairly short, and I think a two movie set, one for Books I and II of Alan Moore's run, and a second for Book III would work quite well.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
21:06 / 25.02.04
Patrick, I wouldn't worry about wasting your cash as it's very possible the version you own will remain unique. I recall that Gaiman and Marvel wanted to return MM to MarvelMan instead of MiracleMan and make him a staple of the Marvel Universe.

This would mean a 'special edition'-ing of the material and not a strict re-release. For fans of the Gaiman version, it's great because they get to read the rest of his tale, but it's very possible the Alan Moore books would be changed and the chracter in general dumped into the Marvel Universe in some maxi-crossover.

Does anyone else recall this news?
 
 
PatrickMM
21:31 / 25.02.04
I belive they are going to publish the material through Marvel (as part of Gaiman's deal for 1602), but I don't think it's as Marvel universe stuff. I believe it'll be a straight reprint, and then Gaiman will continue with his stuff.

As for whether he'll be Marvelman again, I think that's what Moore wanted, but we'll see.
 
 
■
21:57 / 25.02.04
If Marvel had any sense at all (sssshhhhhhyeaaah right) what they would do would be to turn the whole event into an attempt to salvage some credibility. To be able to package the whole Moore and Gaiman run would be a coup. The only way they will manage this is to make a BIIIIG payment to the CBLDF. Big enough to make sure that any artist they try to screw later will be able to beat them. Let's hope they go for the prestige and the honour rather than the business. Oh, well. I guess we'll never see the full run.
 
 
sleazenation
06:54 / 26.02.04
Interestingly, while Gaiman has mentioned the reversion clause, which effectively means that McFarlane couldn't buy any Miracleman rights from Eclipse, he hasn't mentioned all the people those rights reverted to... Way back in 2001 Dez Skinn (publisher and comissioning editor for the original Alan Moore/Alan Davis Marvelman) mentioned the reversion clause in the Eclipse contract... I believe Skinn owned some of the rights at that time and if those rights have reverted Skinn might have some influence over the reprint of the first two marvelman books (those that appeared in part or whole in Warrior, Marvelman's orginal home) and some rights over any new stories Gaiman and Buckie might create (such as the rest of the silver and dark ages).

Now, Dez is a businessman first and foremost - I can see a deal being struck, but I don't think Marvelman is out of the woods yet...
 
 
FinderWolf
14:29 / 27.02.04
from Gaiman's blog:

----
With the victory regarding the three characters introduced in Spawn # 9, Gaiman is now speaking out on the next step with McFarlane regarding the Miracleman character. He has this to say on his journal:

"So one thing that the court case did establish was that (McFarlane) obviously didn't, as he had been claiming, own all of Miracleman. As far as I can tell, or any of the lawyers working with us on the case could tell, (McFarlane) probably doesn't actually own any share of Miracleman. He certainly has no copyright in any of the existing work.

"Currently (as of late 2001) (McFarlane) has another trademark application in on Miracleman, on the grounds that it was an abandoned trademark, which we've opposed.

"There may well need to be a final court case to tie up some of the last loose ends on Miracleman, which may wind up going to some very fun places indeed. At least with '1602,' there's the money there to fight it. And there are a lot of places that want to republish the work that's been done on Miracleman, and the new work that Mark and I hope to do."

-----

Hey, then at least 1602, for all its crappiness, has done some good.
 
  
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