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Spider-Man - love him or hate him?

 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
14:15 / 19.07.01
Come on, be honest! Be brutal!

I can't help this habit of mine, where I buy the comic every month. It just has to be done. It's not a crime!

I'm ready.... do your worst!
 
 
Jack Fear
15:35 / 19.07.01
Passionately indifferent.
Let me tell you a story:

Back in 1990? 1991?—I was 25 or so—I wandered into my local comics shop, bored and at a loss. So I asked the clerk, "What's new and exciting in comics these days?"

He grinned and held up a triple-bagged platinum-coated-cover variant of SUPERMAN #75 and said, "Death of Superman!"

Sez I, "For me, Superman died about ten years ago, when I was fifteen."

Spider-Man, too.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:50 / 19.07.01
Awwww man.

I guess I'm still a kid at heart.

I only started buying it again recently. It's actually good. I'm sure it is. Honestly.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
15:55 / 19.07.01
I've never liked Spider-Man. Maybe, if they killed the concept around the time all of the potential for new growth faded away in the early 70s, I'd have more respect for Spider-Man...it seems that the only thing to do with Spider-Man is to rehash the same old stories and ideas, because the character isn't strong enough to exist beyond the premise of a nebbishy teen with an overbearing sense of responsibility.
 
 
The Packard Goose
16:03 / 19.07.01
Love him.
Nothing wrong with being a kid at heart, methinks.
I still have the autographed black&white 8x10 glossy I got when I was three and got to meet "Spider-Man" at the grand opening of a mall near home.
Like every other comic book icon, the web-slinger's been frequently mishandled by various hacks (thinking of that mid-90's clone crap still gets me mad), but when done right, nobody can touch Spider-Man.
 
 
z3r0
17:31 / 19.07.01
It was one of my favorite comics. But I have no idea of what's going on theses days, been years since I don't read it. Can't stand most of the art on them...

That little fascist web-head, I remember him beating the hell out of a poor fella who was giving (or selling, can't remember) LSD to one of his friends... hee hee...
 
 
bio k9
18:45 / 19.07.01
Spiderman has always been my favorite. The idea of Spiderman anyway. I hadn't read any of the comics in years until Ultimate Spiderman, which I really like. I bought the Jenkins trade and thought it was horrible and JMS is yet to impress with Amazing (but I'm not really impressed with most of Rising Stars either...)

It seems to me that the problem with Spiderman is that Marvel had him grow up. All of the Marvel characters are now the same age. Peter Parker should be a kid. Johnny Storm should be just a little older (and a lot cooler)- someone for Peter to look up to. Spiderman should be a kid in a world of grown up superheros. The idea that the characters should grow up with the reader is the stupidest one ever- the readers shouldn't expect the characters to change as they (the readers) grow up. The characters should stay the same, they should be timeless and treated like myths instead of corporate assets.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
19:28 / 19.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Biologic K-9:

It seems to me that the problem with Spiderman is that Marvel had him grow up. All of the Marvel characters are now the same age. Peter Parker should be a kid. Johnny Storm should be just a little older (and a lot cooler)- someone for Peter to look up to. Spiderman should be a kid in a world of grown up superheros. The idea that the characters should grow up with the reader is the stupidest one ever- the readers shouldn't expect the characters to change as they (the readers) grow up. The characters should stay the same, they should be timeless and treated like myths instead of corporate assets.


Well, don't you think it would have been even better off if they just stopped with Spider-Man at some point instead of freezing him in time? Doing that just recognizes the inherant limitations to the character... I honestly don't think there's anymore really good stories left in Spider-Man. That well is dried up...
 
 
Ellis
19:38 / 19.07.01
Spiderman works only as a teenage hero, he doesnt work at all as a wise cracking thirty year old teacher.

And the clone saga?? What the fuck was that about?

(It was a shame too because a story was starting to develop in the storyline before that where he became simply "The Spider" and hung out in his cocoon... Damn that was spooky.
And I cried when Aunt May died.
Apparently she is back and alive now...)
 
 
Templar
19:47 / 19.07.01
Marvel should have just let go a while back, although I'm getting to like the JMS stuff, but I'm a JMS fan in general so maybe that doesn't matter. (Rising Stars, at least the first volume, rocked, even if it was particularly remeniscent of The New Statesmen).
I took a vow against buying Marvel years ago that I had to break when they had their relaunch a few months back, and started using decent writers. However, it's only Morrison's X-men that makes the grade (and X-force is fairly amusing) and that's probably because I never read X-men as a kid, so I don't have any enourmous bag catalogue of narrative problems to get caught up in.
Has there ever been a serial, open-ended story that was concluded successfully? I don't think so - part of the problem with big business comics not wanting to let go of their money-spinning titles. They go half-way with things like Death of Superman to boost sales, but it's always a let-down because they won't give you the pay-off that you want - the actual final absolute death of the lead.
 
 
bio k9
20:10 / 19.07.01
I don't think that freezing a character in time reveals inherant limitations in the charcter, it just reveals the character. Spiderman is (or should be) about a young boy trying to deal with adversity, find his way, and do the right thing. And while all of the great Spiderman stories may have already been told I don't see any problem updating them for the new generation. After all, if Marvel comics were stopped at the high-water mark Stan and Jack would have wrapped up all of the stories themselves... oh, wait, that would have been a good thing... but I would have missed out on the Marvel Universe completely just because of my date of birth.
 
 
Sandfarmer
20:18 / 19.07.01
I've always loved the character but the comics have pretty much sucked for the past 15 years or so. Just a long series of bad writers. I blame it mainly on Howard Mackie and Tom DeFalco.

Currently, I love Paul Jenkins "Peter Parker: Spider-Man". Paul Jenkins is a great writer and the Peter Parker comic is one of the best costumed hero comics out there right now. It's not able to do what a Wildstorm or ABC comic can do but its a good, well written comic month after month.
 
 
bio k9
20:19 / 19.07.01
Templar: >>they woln't give you the pay-off that you want-the actual final absolute death of the lead.<<

Shit, man. I'd be happy with a nice ride into the sunset every once in a while
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:59 / 19.07.01
Spiderman was totally a childhood favorate... Was picking it up before I could read!!!

Just started checking out the JMS run & so far it's enjoyable....

Most of the past 10 years WAS shit!!!

Still... the Movie will of course stimulate interest. For better or worse!!!
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:50 / 20.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Biologic K-9:
After all, if Marvel comics were stopped at the high-water mark Stan and Jack would have wrapped up all of the stories themselves... oh, wait, that would have been a good thing... but I would have missed out on the Marvel Universe completely just because of my date of birth.


Well, not the Marvel Universe..just certain characters who have run their course, like Spider-Man and Fantastic Four (has a single new idea graced the pages of FF since 1972?)
X-Men has always been successful because it has always been able to change and mutate...it may have been horribly dense and difficult to jump into, but it changed many times over the course of the past 30 years.

Now, what you're saying, about missing out on the Marvel characters if their series had stopped at logical points....that's mostly to do with the inadequecies of the way the industry has always worked, isn't it? Let's say they ended the story of Spider-Man with grace somewhere in the late 60s/early 70s, and then reissued all the old issues in a series of trades, a la Preacher, and kept them in print. People wouldn't really have missed out, right? It would have been like how in the record industry, just because a Rolling Stones album came out 67, you can still go get it today along with any new release.

Forgive me my utopian fantasies, but that's the way it SHOULD have been, I say.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:53 / 20.07.01
oh...out of curiosity, what has JMS and Jenkins been doing with Spider-Man?
 
 
Templar
09:53 / 20.07.01
JMS, not being able to just scrap the whole concept and start again, had a mentor figure pop up and tell PP that he didn't get his powers because he was bitten by a radioactive spider... but that he bitten by a spider that just happened to be radioactive.
Okay, not much of a difference. But at least interesting.
So he rewrites the origin, introduces a mysterious mentor guy, has PP so upset at the state of the school system that he takes a job as chemistry teacher at (his old?) school. Oh, and there's an apparently unstoppable vampire-gothic-looking villain who says nothing for long stretches of fight, which is kind of a novelty.
And the writing's tight.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:53 / 20.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Templar:
tell PP that he didn't get his powers because he was bitten by a radioactive spider... but that he bitten by a spider that just happened to be radioactive.
Okay, not much of a difference. But at least interesting..


Wait, how does that minor change make any difference? All it does it make it so that Peter didn't irradiate the bug himself...so what? Are they implying that he was a latent mutant or something?

I've never liked anything JMS has done...I think Babylon 5 was really schlocky crap, and I've read through the first Rising Stars (ugh, what a terrible title...) at a store once, and I thought it was standard superhero crap with godawful art.
 
 
Templar
09:53 / 20.07.01
Rising Stars is wicked.
Fight?
From what I remember, JMS posits a whole kind of shamanistic thing with the spider, giving the "Spiderman" gig a history that he can now explore, rather than it being a one off event.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:04 / 20.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Clontle:
Well, don't you think it would have been even better off if they just stopped with Spider-Man at some point instead of freezing him in time? Doing that just recognizes the inherant limitations to the character... I honestly don't think there's anymore really good stories left in Spider-Man. That well is dried up...


Ore maybe if you'd stopped reading fucking Spider-Man when your balls dropped...

The character is not supposed to change.

The audience is supposed to roll over every three to five years—and those "Same old stories" will be fresh news to a new crop of readers.

If the books have nothing to say to you any more, that says more about you than it does about Spider-Man.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
14:52 / 20.07.01
Well, I haven't read a Spider-Man comic since I was 12. My position is: why bother updating and retelling the stories? Is there something wrong with the hundreds of Spider-Man comics that already exist for their to be a constant supply of nearly identical new issues?
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:12 / 21.07.01
OF COURSE

. . . Advertising!!!

Yeah... JMS is pushing the Shamic thing... the Spider was going to bite PP anyway & give him those powers... maybe teach him of it's mysterious history if the radiation hadn't poisoned it.

not a bad premis...
 
 
bio k9
09:12 / 21.07.01
The original Spiderman stories had Peter and the gang wearing button-up shirts with collars and sweater vests so yeah, there is something wrong with them as far as the new generation is concerned. And as the times change the storylines don't always hold up well. And how do you know when a comic has run its course? X-men was nothing but reprints for years before Claremont took over. And its been god-awful for years before Morrisons run (can two issues be considered a run?)
 
 
Tom Coates
10:24 / 21.07.01
I simply don't agree that a character like Spiderman shouldn't develop and should be frozen in time. Most decent stories - most decent plotlines are about an advance or a change in a character. It's been a trope of superhero comics that often the most substantial change or development happens in their origin issues and they remain RELATIVELY static after that. Seems to me that if Peter remains a teenager forever, then the stories that can be told about him will become simple retreads. There are many axes of interest in Spiderman - the whole sense of responsibility one is just that - only ONE of the options. Other ones that people have played with are the 'weirdness' and 'creepiness' of the spider-powers, the geekiness of the character, the fact that he was one of the few superheroes that was systematically being attacked by the media. All these things (and many more) are interesting and can be explored over time better than just as a teenager.

I have to confess though that I both started and stopped reading Spidey during the whole Todd MacFarlane run on Amazing. They were just good comics and Venom was an admirable foe. Pity it went so downhill so quickly afterwards.
 
 
RexMonday
09:02 / 22.07.01
i've never paid any attention to spider-man until ultimate s-m came out. that first issue didn't interest me, but i tried the ultimate team-up book a couple of weeks ago and thought those books were fun to read.
 
  
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