Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

On the road...

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

00:19 / 31.01.02

Feeling a bit silly starting a topic on this, but thinking we don't have to stick to just this one book.

Now, I'm half way through reading it, and it's not quite as mind blowing as I imagined it. Now, this probably comes from reading other things first, wheras this is quite clearly "the beginning" (am shaky on any 'facts', so feel free to correct). I didn't read a great deal before starting On the Road but had read bits of Ginsberg, Burroghes, and The Electric Kool-aid Acid Test (which is probably in part why this book, in some ways, feels like a let down).

I think I expected a different sort of style in On the Road, but the style feels somewhat ordinary now - yet I guess it was in the ideas that everything developed from here, and people started experimenting more within the writing. A bit like Kesey moving on from things like 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'(that right?) perhaps?

However, it's still a cracking read - I mean, anything with Cassady in it is bound to be entertaining... (although getting unnerving feeling that I have met people like him from this book, and is not quite so amazing...)

Anyone else? Opinions? Just make it a beat free for all. Did I phrase that badly? You know what I mean, any reccomendations would be nice too... or random ramblings. Whatever.
Man.

02:46 / 31.01.02

i was for a long time a huge kerouac fan, must have read around 15 or 20 of his books, found out of print / unpublished stuff at the columbia university library, read 3 or 4 of his biographies, went to lowell mass and checked out his whole childhood there... all of this just to say that i think he is a brilliant writer, and On The Road was by far the least interesting of his books. i think he went more and more out there, to a point, and refined being able to hit pure poetry using that method.

favorites? Visions of Cody, the very fractured on the road rewrite; Big Sur, the late in the game book detailing his getting old and having a nightmarish breakdown; Dharma Bums, and Some of the Dharma, his collection of writings to ginsberg outlining his cosmology and understanding of buddhism which uses a remarkable array of typographical innovations.

08:19 / 31.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Mystery Gypt:
i was for a long time a huge kerouac fan, must have read around 15 or 20 of his books, found out of print / unpublished stuff at the columbia university library, read 3 or 4 of his biographies, went to lowell mass and checked out his whole childhood there... all of this just to say that i think he is a brilliant writer, and On The Road was by far the least interesting of his books. i think he went more and more out there, to a point, and refined being able to hit pure poetry using that method.

favorites? Visions of Cody, the very fractured on the road rewrite; Big Sur, the late in the game book detailing his getting old and having a nightmarish breakdown; Dharma Bums, and Some of the Dharma, his collection of writings to ginsberg outlining his cosmology and understanding of buddhism which uses a remarkable array of typographical innovations.

Ditto to every single thing in there, including the Lowell visit. I also like Desolation Angels, which is quite a nice marriage of the lonely mystic and the San Francisco beat-boy.

11:41 / 31.01.02

I've only made it to 'On the Road' and 'The Subterranians'... the latter being unimpressive for me.

On the Road of course being one of those books that became my inspiration for years when I was in high school... and I don't mean that as a put down; I just think the book is more impressive if read young.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

09:09 / 01.02.02

Definately. Especially if you haven't read anything like that before. Those are ideas are really contagious and gripping to an unprepared mind. Reading it later on was like comparing ganja to coke or acid. It's an old favorite, nice to have around, but it won't mess you up the way this stuff will.

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Johnny the Zen bastard ]

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

10:47 / 01.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Johnny the Zen bastard:
but it won't mess you up the way this stuff will.

Which stuff?

On the Road defnitely gets more interesting nearing the end, more carefree. I'd agree with what everyone else said about it, really. Those kind of ideas and thinking are pretty contagious, specially on the young and impressionable. Which is good.

Defnitely seek out more, any others to reccomend from the same "group"?

The Return Of Rothkoid

10:52 / 01.02.02

I think I have to read some other Kerouac; On The Road was the only one I've read, and it took two tries for me to get through it - though that must be about five years ago, now. For some reason, it just didn't grip me: it sort of waffled on, I guess. I felt massively let down by it; perhaps the other novels won't be as disappointing as there's not as much a cult of "cool" built upon them?

10:57 / 01.02.02

An infectous book? I would go with the Illuminatus trilogy, as well as Ficciones by Jorge Luis Borges and V. by Thomas Pynchon.

Crenshaw

04:17 / 02.02.02

I read Doctor Sax. Can't say I remember much of it. Can't say I remember whether or not I liked much of it. It's only been a few years, too.

Utterly unmemorable.

08:53 / 02.02.02

Watchoo talkin' about, Willis?

Crenshaw

09:02 / 03.02.02

Not you, Sax. Jack Kerouac's Doctor Sax.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

15:54 / 05.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Sweet Jane:

Which stuff?

Fair enough. When I read On the Road in high school, I loved it. A good friend recommended it to me, saying it changed her life (we were high school kids, alright? Give her a break). It was great, I thought things like "wow, what freedom! So many zany adventures! Those beats had the right idea, I tell you..." Reading much later on, I saw it not as a "guide to having lots of fun with your friends on the road" but more as an insight into what Kerouac was really like.
Not long after that, I started studying mysticism and magic(k), Zen and Taoism, and all sorts of stuff like that. It bent my head in all sorts of new directions. That was the good stuff.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

20:57 / 06.02.02

Ah yes, that makes more sense to me, but I had to ask which stuff...

On the whole, I found 'On the road' a tad underwhelming, but entertaining and thought provoking at points.

I will definitely delve further in to this era of writings though...

22:48 / 12.02.02

<threadrot>I keep telling myself I have to read On the Road one of these days. I'm probably too old for it now according to some comments here, but I feel obligated as I used to hang out at a bar Kerouac went to in his later years in Northport, NY and always had a good time there. (Of course that probably had a lot to do with my sex-oozing friend who would grift drinks for us both off unsuspecting patrons) Now back to your normal thread... </threadrot>

02:43 / 03.02.03

I just finished Big Sur on the subway tonight, and I really liked it. It can't compare to On the Road in my opinion, but it was great to see Kerouac as very human. He has to escape the east coast because of the fans crawling in through his windows, and loses it out west. He just seemed sad and old.
There used to be a thread with the title "Jack Kerouac: Dharma bum or Drunken bum" or something along those lines, with a debate from someone arguing that Kerouac was an asshole deep down. Reading Big Sur I just felt so sorry for him. Even if he treated some people badly, he seemed so full of genuine remorse for his life, and the drinking and harm he's done to people.
There was also a note by him in the front of the book saying that all the characters in his novels are the same, but the publishers refused to have the same names throughout, so before he dies he wants to rewrite all of them so they can be read all through with uniform names. In this book he seemed to ditch any efforts to disguise the characters other than the names. He even tells the reader throughout which person was which character in On the Road.

04:45 / 03.02.03

some parts of On the Road are pure gold, other bits feel like ole uncle jack masturbating at our expense. On the whole its an excellent book, though I first read it in high school, and that probably had a lot to do with it. Big Sur was good, although really should be read last so as to be the conclusion to all his writing.

Apparently, and I'm not 100% sure of this, he did a television interview where he was really drunk just before he died. Its supposed to be quite revealing. Has anyone seen this?

13:24 / 03.02.03

He was apparently really drunk before he died. But yeah, I know the one you're talking about. Ed Allen show or something like that (does that even exist? It sounds like it should). I'll have a reference to it somewhere, I'll dig it out when I get home.

He also went very anti-semitic, intolerant and ultra-patriotic just before he died - there's a story about Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters rolling up at his home to see this hero of the counter-culture. Kesey was pricking about with a stars and stripes and Kerouac quietly took it off him, reverently folded it, and put it away, before going back indoors and ignoring the Pranksters, who also had Jack's old buddy Neal Cassady driving for them.

19:01 / 03.02.03

Well, the reason he could afford to go bumming around the country was that he was getting checks from the VA. (Veteran's Administration.)

09:53 / 04.02.03

Was he a vet? I thought he was a merchant seaman. Or is that the same thing in the US?

Twig the Wonder Kid

15:45 / 05.02.03

I think for decent "beat" writing you should start with Bukowski.

"On the Road" is just Hollywood.

16:51 / 05.02.03

Hollywood how?

I've only read "Tales of Ordinary Madness" by Bukowski, and I loved it. Bukowski seems more like an early Tom Waits song, sad and old, while Kerouac travelled and had friends. Maybe it's the travelling that I love of On The Road, but I still think it's a great story.

When reading "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" it was great to see Cassady driving the bus. From the end of "On The Road" you feel like his life's falling apart and he's about to die..... but then he goes on to outlive Kerouac and inspire the Hippies. Hee hee.

21:17 / 05.02.03

Apparently so:

He broke his leg during his first football season and quit the team and Columbia not long before World War II. During the war, he lost several good friends from high school, including his best friend Sebastian Sampas, who died in 1944 while in the service. Kerouac joined the Merchant Marine in 1942 and the Navy in 1943, but was later drummed out of the military on "psychiatric grounds;" he refused to handle a gun.

13:49 / 06.02.03

Oh, yeah. Wasn't sure if he was military, though.

Despite earlier comments, I can heartily recommend Doctor Sax (and not just so you'll think of me). Nice bit of childhood crossing-the-boundaries-between-fantasy-and-reality stuff, with some good pulp imagery.

Dharma Bums is also good, in a jumping up and down on mountains kind of way, and Desolation Angels is a pretty mix of the crazy Catholic mystic Buddhist side of Ti Jean and the groovy San Francisco go-daddio hipster scene.

God, I love Kerouac.

16:29 / 06.11.07

Bump

This is the first time that I've read this or any Kerouac. Always knew about it as an influence on stuff but never really bothered to dig into it. I was more hooked on music than books as an adolescent, and it never got passed to me by an older and "wiser" teenager.

And so far I'm really enjoying it. Re-reading this thread it seems that people were disappointed that the book wasn't craaaazy and way out there, but I'm getting more of a feeling of nostalgia from it. The feeling of being 20 or so and a bit of an idiot, but up for everything is very strong. I certainly hung out with a group of people with whom I did stupid, entertaining, frustrating and occasionally beautiful things, but when seen from an outside (adult) perspective the only reason for being together was that we were the only ones who could stand each other. We certainly don't see each other now, 20 years later.

As I said, this is the first of his books that I've read, so I've got nothing to compare it with but the writing is good enough for me to get a strong flavour of America at the time. I'm only half way through, but the first chunk when Sal is hoboing I really liked.

I imagined the story as one long road trip with some kind of purpose, but Sal just pops all over the place for whatever reason comes into his head at any moment, and that seems a good summation of the young man's mind in general. Is this really the book that codified a way of thinking about being a teenager/young adult, and thereby helped to create the idea, or was it just jumping on the bandwagon of an emerging cultural shift? Does anyone know how the book was promoted (if at all) when it was first released? Was it a big event or a slow grower that has gathered importance over the decades?

00:52 / 17.11.07

bizarre to chance upon this thread having not popped by this forum for a l'il while... am also re-reading OTR at the moment and have cited it as an inspiration in an application to go back to school to get a doctorate in communications next year!

this has to be my favourite physical book - my copy is battered and beaten like dean's poor old hudson and i have read it a dozen times, each time getting new mysteries explained and whooping at the crazy serenity of the characters so richly drawn. i dig it, man.

that said, agree with other remarks upthread on his other work - satori in paris is also wonderful (on top of dharma bums, desolation angels, etc) and kerouac, i think, captures an essence of what his place was his time was his people were in a way that film or music can't access. OTR is quite timeless, even if some of the language and imagery accasionally feels dated... (and astoundingly this read, a line leapt out at me from somewhere early-ish in the book when they're driving to NYC, dean with a towel round his head, sal remarks 'we were like a mob or arabs coming to blow up new york'!! this in 1948!!

00:53 / 17.11.07

)

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:38 / 24.09.08

Bumpski. Just gone through an audiobook of this with David Carradine, other than the final section when they are driving south to Mexico none of it managed to stay with me once I heard it. Is it just considered great because it was the first in a genre that has been used so often since that it no longer seems to stand out?

12:44 / 24.09.08

Weeeelllll, a couple of things here.

First of all, the language and pacing of the book is a massive wash of imagery by design, so it does make for a somewhat unique experience on first read (or listen). My first read-through had a very similar result. There wasn't much of the actual book that stuck with me, but there was a feeling/viewpoint that held my consciousness for days afterward; an urge to poeticize everything I did and saw. Granted, I was at an impressionable age at the time, but subsequent readings have had a very similar effect. Maybe I'm still very impressionable.

Secondly, and do understand that I'm a horrid purist about these things, I'm not sure an OTR audiobook read by someone other than Kerouac is the ideal first exposure. I've found that reading Kerouac (and Ginsberg and Burroughs) is enhanced by having had exposure to readings done by the author himself. I'm not sure why this should be, except to say it makes it easier to "hear" the text in a cadence closer to what the author might have intended. This little pet theory applies to the Beats specifically, as their style of writing is more closely aligned with a conversational style. To read OTR is to enter into a conversation with Kerouac, as one-sided as it might be.

Have a listen to Kerouac laying it down

YouSendIt - Readings from 'On the Road' and 'Visions of Cody'

and see if it doesn't change your perspective on the text. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Or you'll think I'm full of it.

David Carradine, BTW, seems an odd choice for the OTR audiobook. Any idea as to why he was picked?