BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Who's Philip K. Dick?

 
  

Page: (1)234

 
 
Tamayyurt
18:16 / 23.01.02
I've been hearing his name a lot (here and in other places) and I've never read anything by the guy so I figured I should pick something up. What's the best book to start me on Mr. Dick?
 
 
Billy Corgan
18:22 / 23.01.02
He's only the greatest sci fi writer OF ALL TIME!!!

He's the man who wrote the short story "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" which became the film Blade Runner.

He's also the genius behind such books as VALIS, A Scanner Darkly, and Radio Free Albemuth.
 
 
NotBlue
18:25 / 23.01.02
"The man in the high castle" is an excellent alternate history book and a good introduction which isn't too heavy on the mental disorder theme prevelant in his later works.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
18:26 / 23.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Billy Corgan:
He's only the greatest sci fi writer OF ALL TIME!!!


Bit of a hefty claim. One that I think is subject to personal opinion.

Certainly for his time and sub-genre he was at the forefront though.


Start with either Man in the High Castle or Ubik.

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: Wisdom of idiots ]
 
 
Billy Corgan
18:31 / 23.01.02
Of course, this is the "wisdom of idiots"! Such an appropriate name.

I will argue the greatness of Mr. Dick til my dying breath if need be... If you can tell me ONE sci-fi writer who deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as PKD, try me...

And please, for the love of God, don't bring up Asimov...what a hack!

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: Billy Corgan ]
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
18:34 / 23.01.02
I'll revert to Gibson as a man of equal greatness. Just because he isn't backed with the same volume of output or years of fanly lauding, doesn't mean he isn't great.

Yes, Asimov is less great. Not sure if he deserves the title of hack though.

Orwell's 1984 is also science fiction equal in stature to Dick's writing.

For the Wisdom of Idiots title, refer to sufism.
 
 
Billy Corgan
18:39 / 23.01.02
Gibson? You must be joking.

I think the only people who can touch PKD are Ray Bradbury and Michael Crichton.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
18:54 / 23.01.02
Thus shows a difference in taste.
 
 
tSuibhne
19:18 / 23.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Billy Corgan:
He's the man who wrote the short story "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" which became the film Blade Runner.


Um, for someone who supposedly loves PKD so much, this was a pretty dumb mistake to make. Do Androids... is a full length novel. We'll Remember It For You Wholesale, which was turned into Total Recall, was the short story.

Do Androids... is starting to be released under it's own name again, which is nice. For years it was released under the name, Bladerunner. Note though, it's best not to really think of the movie and the book having anything to do with each other. If you get to caught up in the connection between the two, the movie turns into a steaming pile of shit, IMHO.

quote:He's also the genius behind such books as VALIS, A Scanner Darkly, and Radio Free Albemuth.

Acctually, Albemuth is just a rewrite of VALIS with elements of The Transmigration of Timothy Archer and Divine Invasion (the other two books in the VALIS trilogy) thrown in for the hell of it. It's possible that the book was never even meant for publication, since it was found amoung PKD's papers after his death. It's still a fun book, but should be looked at in context.

As for reccomendations:

VALIS, Divine Invasion, and The Transmigration of Timothy Archer, are probably the ones you are going to run into most in these circles (with emphasis on VALIS). These three books were written after PKD went through a "mystical" experience. He spent the rest of his life trying to make sense of it. The three books are basically him bouncing around various ideas.

Do Androids... is possibly his most famous straight sci-fi book, mostly because of the Bladerunner connection.

Scanner Darkly was a fun paranoid drugged out book. The closest thing to a anti-drug book that PKD could write.

The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldrich is another really good straight sci-fi book. I prefer it to Do Androids..

You also might want to look into PKD's short stories. He wrote a shit load of them, and they're all kinds of twisted fun.

PKD is the only writer I've ever come across that could pull of a short story about how insects are acctually aliens trying to take over the world, and spiders are acctually defending man kind.

The worst PKD novels are fun, strange little trinkets to waste a day with. The best, will keep you thinking long after you've read them. Just pick something up.

edited to say: when I say straight fiction I'm making a seperation between PKD's early work, which was written for sci-fi audiences, and his later work. Which bordered on reguliar fiction at times, and tends to be thrown around as his most serious work.
Personally, I'm much more interested in the discussions of the nature of humanity and reality in his sci-fi stuff, then in his, "am I going mad?" stuff later on. They're still great books, but not as fun as his previous stuff, IMHO.

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: I Am ]
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
19:32 / 23.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Billy Corgan:
Gibson? You must be joking.

I think the only people who can touch PKD are Ray Bradbury and Michael Crichton.



This is presumably supposed to be a joke. Bradbury's not too bad, but Crichton? The Tom Clancy of SF? The man's books are as exciting as a Japanese electrical manual and just as rambling.
Ok, ok, so it's a matter of personal taste, but I just felt like being bitchy about Crichton right now.

 
 
NotBlue
20:20 / 23.01.02
quote:Originally posted by I Am:

PKD is the only writer I've ever come across that could pull of a short story about how insects are acctually aliens trying to take over the world, and spiders are acctually defending man kind.[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: I Am ]



What collection was that story in? I'd like to read it.
 
 
sleazenation
20:24 / 23.01.02
Currently doing the research for an artilce on Dick that i'm thinking of writing...

In the course of the research i've turned up lots of interesting tidbits on the composition of various books (for example RFA was actually written BEFORE Valis, Dick offered RFA to a publisher who requested a few minor rewrites and Dick went off and rewrote the book... which is a pity really because in many ways RFA is a more effective novel )

Dick is acclaimed as being one of the least well regarded writer of Science fiction in America, despite being as john Brunner states "the most consistantly brilliant SF writer in the world". Fay Weldon describes him as her literary hero. Yet he was poor most of his life and it was only his amazingly high output (around 3 novels per year at his hight) that enabled him to survive.

His Novel "the man in the high castle" won the coverted Hugo award for excellence in SF but mainstream success always eluded him

His work can be split into two distince phases. In the first he was the author of metaphysical science fiction with the underlying questions what makes anauthentic human and what is real.
second phase had Dick attempting to understand the visions he had between february and march 1974.

almost all the novels he wrote after 1974 were coloured by his experience Sometimes dick thought of it as meeting god, othertimes as reciving information tfrom a large orbiting satelite. But he never quite found an explanation he believed.

If you are interested in Dick's influence on the invisibles, morrison has read Valis so that might be a plaxce to start.
 
 
tSuibhne
09:01 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Duncan disorderly:

What collection was that story in? I'd like to read it.


Don't have the name for you since all my books are in boxes untill I move in two weeks. But, I beleave it's the collection of his early short stories. The story is mentioned in the blurb on the back. If you can't find it, ask me after the 8th once I've had a chance to unpack my books.

Sleaze: If you write this article, and please do so, let us know where we can find a copy. From what you just mentioned, I think I'd be really interested in reading it.
 
 
ill tonic
09:23 / 24.01.02
Gibson (although I love him) was a one hit wonder ... Crichton??? You're out of your mind -- he's airport fodder, a two-bit Grisham.

Impulsivelad - check out Phillip K. Dick - although his prose doesn't age well his ideas definately do ... A Scanner Darkly, Valis, Ubik, Devine Invasions are all good places to start ...
 
 
—| x |—
09:23 / 24.01.02
A tin full of UBIK will cure ALL that ails you.



quote:Originally posted by I Am:
We'll Remember It For You Wholesale, which was turned into Total Recall, was the short story.


Don't forget the story "Second Variety" which became the movie Screamers. The movie could have been saved if they had kept the location on Earth (like in the story).

Phil, he was one wacked out motha'...(shut yo' mouth)!
77 + 33 = 0 (mod 5)

[ 24-01-2002: Message edited by: modfive ]
 
 
Knight's Move
09:23 / 24.01.02
Crichton is shit.

Gibson is not a one hit wonder. Although most people only remember Neuromancer. Anyone who has not read Count Zero and attempts to argue about Gibson is not playing with a full deck. It has the superb correspondence between the concept of the Loas and AIs, The net and the unconcious. It has a RAW view of life as illusion because the illusion of cyberspace is presented as an allegorical astral plane. He is superb.

I now unfortunately cannot remember the story about the flies and spiders but it also involves a man who goes back to his old town and finds it's not the same and reality does not exist. So much like lots of Dick. He took fuck loads of speed to write and began to doubt reality in his books and in his life. Everything he writes is imbued with a worry as to the main character's existence or that of the world around him or that of the people around him. The story incidentally features the ancient Babylonian (I think) gods of chaos and order.But I still can't remember what it's called. The one problem with Dick's writing is that he took fuck loads of speed so it is all poorly edited and occasionally seriouly confused. But it is still fucking brilliant.
 
 
—| x |—
09:23 / 24.01.02
And speaking of RAW, have any of you read his screenplay, "And the Walls Came Tumbling Down"? It appears to be a story about PKD's life, but RAW doesn't acknowledge this in any way. Makes me not know what to think about RAW: is it an intentional rip-off, or did RAW have better motives...

ZEBRA is our Saviour,
2 + 2 = 3 (mod 5)
 
 
videodrome
09:23 / 24.01.02
Prepare for a year of PKD awareness - Spielberg's Minority Report is based on a Dick story. Haven't had any exposure to the script, but I'm assuming the worst.

I'm typically a fan of working through a writer's output, beginning to end, so's I can trace the development of ideas. But in the case of PKD, I'd say to go straight to A Scanner Darkly as it's a great meeting ground between his straight sci-fi and later revelation-based work. It's also the book that I think would be most ripe for cinematic adaptation, even though it would just get buggered all the same. Cronenberg's Naked Lunch is pretty close, though.

Beyond that, I found the final trilogy (Valis, Divine and Archer) to be compelling and enthralling in a unique way. If you get into those, there's further reading worth doing.
 
 
moriarty
09:23 / 24.01.02
I can't believe I just read a thread where people argue with Billy Corgan concerning the works of PKD. You do realize you were arguing with Billy Corgan don't you?

I only ever buy books at used book stores, and PKD is a damn hot commodity. So the only novels I've read of his tend to be his earlier, more standard sci-fi work. I should probably hit the library to sample his later works.

We've had a couple threads devoted to the author, impusivelad. You might want to seek them out. All very interesting.
 
 
Hush
09:23 / 24.01.02
quote: 2 + 2 = 3 (mod 5)


Are you sure about that?
 
 
Opalfruit
09:23 / 24.01.02
My personal favorite PDK book so far has been "Flow My Tears The Policeman, said" it was the first book of his I read when I was about 11. It blew me away, I've only read a few short stories, "The Man in the High Castle" and "The Penultimate Truth" all of which I've enjoyed, oh and of course the "Wub" short-story.

Also I've read "Phillip K Dick Is Dead Alas", which is a very strange novel with the ghost of PKD floating around being mysteriously alive and weird at people...
 
 
DaveBCooper
10:18 / 24.01.02
Good timing for this thread: just started reading Valis last night, and it’s extremely good stuff, I’d have to say.

But Dick the greatest SF writer of all time? Not so sure… I’d have to agree with the opinion of many other SF writers (they should know, after all), and the folks who dish out Hugos, Nebulae and all that guff, and say : Harlan Ellison.

DBC
 
 
tSuibhne
13:13 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by modfive:
And speaking of RAW, have any of you read his screenplay, "And the Walls Came Tumbling Down"? It appears to be a story about PKD's life, but RAW doesn't acknowledge this in any way. Makes me not know what to think about RAW: is it an intentional rip-off, or did RAW have better motives...


How so? I've not read the screenplay you refer to, but if "about PKD's life" you mean the VALIS incident. RAW talks about the similarities between PKD's VALIS incident, and his own experiences, in the intro to Cosmic Trigger Vol. 1 (which offers a great theory as to what the VALIS incident was) He also says that he was unaware of the connection between the two for years.

As for the reality thing being because of the speed. Correct me if I'm wroung, but wasn't PKD schizophranic? I'm sure the drugs would make this worse, but it was my impression that this was the main source of the "what is reality?" questions.

Oh, and on the subject of PKD and reality. PKD wrote a great essay entitled something like Schizophrania, Drugs, and Hallucinations. Or something like that. It's collected in The Shifting Realities of Philip K. Dick. Highly reccomended. The book also has a section of his Exegis, several speeches/lectures, some notes, and other assorted odds and ends.
 
 
rizla mission
13:50 / 24.01.02
I'm absolutely NOT going to start obsessing about PKD again .. I've only just managed to get the bastard out of my system..

Regarding the claim that he's the best science fiction writer ever:

As far as writing a good yarn, or creating decent characters and storylines, goes - he clearly isn't. But in terms of exploring new and mind blowing concepts (which is largely the point of SF) he bestrides the literary world like a colossus.

He's one of those writers - like HP Lovecraft or William Burroughs - who is never gonna be taught in English classes, but will always, always be deeply fascinating and confusing and brilliant to those of us who 'get' him..
 
 
videodrome
13:55 / 24.01.02
Oh, one other recommendation. Do not, under any circumstances, see the (cough) film, The Gospel According To Philip K Dick. It's just plain embarrassing. My dog could have done a more insightful job.
 
 
Knight's Move
16:57 / 24.01.02
You might be right about the schizophrenia. He was riddles with insecurites and phobias (he couldn't eat in front of people). He went into therapy after his twin sister died at birth and his father left when he was six.
The amphet lead to rampant paranoia - Dick believed he was being followed/spied on/bugged by the FBI/CIA but it is merely speculation based on things I think I heard about the reality influence.
 
 
Darkside of the Moo
16:58 / 24.01.02
Moo...

I know there was a compiled version of his cryptica scritura or exegesis released...anyone know where I can grab a copy (besides at the ass end of Valis)??
 
 
tSuibhne
17:03 / 24.01.02
Paranoia:
The fun story though is the people who broke into his house and used dynamite to get into his safe. Nothing else in the house was touched. He was convinced it was either the CIA or the FBI. Berekely might not have been the best place for him to live.

Exegis:
Ebay is your best bet. The book is called In Persuit of VALIS. And is out of print. But, if you get in a bidding war with me over it, I'm going to hunt you down. My copy was given off when I needed a wedding present fast. So, I got to pick a new one up. Get yours before March, and we should be OK.
 
 
—| x |—
20:24 / 24.01.02
[Thread rot]

quote:Originally posted by Jawbone:
Are you sure about that?


I think that some lyrics from a song by TAR fit this occasion best:

"There is no
such thing
as a sure thing.
And of this, I'm sure."

[/Thread rot]

2 + 2 = 4 (mod 5)

[ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: modfive ]
 
 
—| x |—
20:38 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by I Am:
How so? I've not read the screenplay you refer to, but if "about PKD's life" you mean the VALIS incident. RAW talks about the similarities between PKD's VALIS incident, and his own experiences, in the intro to Cosmic Trigger Vol. 1 (which offers a great theory as to what the VALIS incident was) He also says that he was unaware of the connection between the two for years.


Ohhhh. I've read Cosmic Trigger, but these later versions that are divided up into volumes confuse me. Are they the same as Cosmic Trigger, or a further elaboration?

And I wasn't really trying to knock RAW 'cause I've read many of his books, and generally I've enjoyed them and can appreciate their value. However, it bothered me when reading [And] The Walls Came Tumbling Down (I'm not sure if 'And' is in the title or not) because it sounded exactly like PKD's experiences (re: Valis), and yet, (bear in mind that The Walls... is a more recent release than Cosmic Trigger Vol. 1) there is no mention of any connection to PKD at all: RAW coulda' at least mentioned the similarities in the introduction or something.

Pull it!
3^3 = 2 (mod 5)

[ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: modfive ]
 
 
—| x |—
20:52 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:
(1)As far as writing a good yarn, or creating decent characters and storylines, goes - he clearly isn't.

(2)But in terms of exploring new and mind blowing concepts (which is largely the point of SF) he bestrides the literary world like a colossus.

(3)He's one of those writers...who is never gonna be taught in English classes...


As far a (2) goes I've gotta' say I agree! He appears to have tackled difficult topics (schizophrenia and such) in his SF that no other SF writers had gone anywhere near.

As to (1), I think this is relative to the particular book. Some of his stories and characters are amazing, while others are flat and lifeless. I imagine it might have something to do with whether or not he was trying to write to get money so he could eat more than dog food; that is, some works seem hurried, forced, and formulaic, where as others seem like they came right from that satellite in the sky (or in his head, or from ZEBRA, or from the Russians, or...).

And for (3), there is an instructor at the university I attend who includes PKD in his English class.

1 + 2 * 3 = 2 (mod 5)

[ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: modfive ]
 
 
Saveloy
12:01 / 25.01.02
Re: schizophrenia
I thought that PKD was never actually diagnosed as schizophrenic, but that he suspected himself that he might be.

I Am:
"Acctually, Albemuth is just a rewrite of VALIS with elements of The Transmigration of Timothy Archer and Divine Invasion (the other two books in the VALIS trilogy) thrown in for the hell of it. It's possible that the book was never even meant for publication, since it was found amoung PKD's papers after his death. It's still a fun book, but should be
looked at in context."


Hmm, I'd say that Albemuth is a superior re-write of the original. Whether or not it has to be looked at in context depends upon how deeply you want to get into the world of PKD. For a first-timer I would recommend reading Radio Free Albemuth first and Valis second (and only at all if you want to explore the concepts that are introduced by Albemuth more deeply).

I started re-reading Valis again just recently, to find out why I hadn't particularly enjoyed it the first time. I suddenly remembered a couple of chapters in - it's the frigging exegesis. It's inserted in a really clumsy manner and it totally upsets the pace of the book. All of a sudden you're wading through treacle.

Obviously it depends what you're looking for; I can well imagine the complexity of the theory/philosophy bit itself would appeal to some, but I ended up not caring about half way through. Which didn't happen at all with Albemuth.
 
 
Hush
12:33 / 25.01.02
More Thread rot

quote: 1 + 2 * 3 = 2 (mod 5)

No. You mean

1 + (2 * 3) = 2 (mod 5)

Because
1 + 2 * 3 = 1 (mod 5) using left to right evaluation. But a computer would agree your version.

I can't help it. But I have thoroughly enjoyed this. Why not turn back the Clock and be ModTwelve next week?

PS Does anyoe know how fictional Timothy Archer was?

[ 25-01-2002: Message edited by: Jawbone ]
 
 
sleazenation
12:42 / 25.01.02
Tim Archer was probably based on Dick's friend Tim Powers, but i'd be extremely reluctant to reduce Dick's work - even his later stories to simple Romains a clefs...

Sav - see my earlier post about the composition of RFA and Valis...
 
 
kid coagulant
13:16 / 25.01.02
I thought that Archer was based on Bishop James Pike http://www.gracecathedral.org/church/crypt/cry_20011114.shtml

<<<Personal problems caught up with Bishop Pike as the 1960s reached their turbulent climax. A chain smoker with an active attention-seeking personality, he had overcome a drinking problem in 1964. The suicide of his oldest son in 1966, and subsequent paranormal events, led him on a long and highly public search, aided by noted psychics and mediums, to reach and reconcile with his son. In 1967 he divorced Esther Pike, and the following year married his secretary, Diane Kennedy. On a visit to Israel's occupied West Bank in 1969 to research Christian origins, Pike and his new wife took a wrong turn in the desolate Judaean Desert, southeast of Bethlehem. They left their car and became separated. Mrs. Pike stumbled down a canyon and managed to reach help at the Dead Sea shore. After an extensive four-day search by the Israeli army in rugged desert terrain, James Pike's body was found in the deep Wadi Duraja canyon.>>>

Pretty much what happened in the book. Dick knew this guy, right?
 
  

Page: (1)234

 
  
Add Your Reply