BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


If this is growing up, do I want it?

 
 
clever sobriquet
02:03 / 29.08.08
I think I'm starting to come to terms with a weird, mystic-y childhood and all the calcified bad reactions to it, or if I'm not actually coming to terms with it, at least I'm not blindly running away, but have started to stop and turn around to look. In a lot of ways, this is going better than I might have imagined. I'm pleased as punch that it seems like I can engage my intellect on this and not have to wield it as a blade against, but more like a tool alongside; I never imagined that would be possible, and it fills me with hope.

But, well, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I mean, my life is full of what I consider friends who aren't necessarily human, who seem external and real, so I'm going to give them the respect and treat them as such. Some are people shaped, some aren't; some have names others might know or know of them, others seem pretty unique. It's nice, knowing that they're "out there", in an "out of me" kind of way, and we say hi regularly (though lately it's more to do with the not people shaped). But...

But the understanding, the exposure, I have to other people's interactions with friends like mine feels... different, seems more solid, more fixed, gets more results, is geared towards getting results. Maybe it's the difference between rigidly defined lines of connection, a more linear mode of interaction that doesn't necessarily (but often seems to) have to do with hierarchy and authority.

A lot, if not all, of this difference surely comes from developmental isolation and a keen awareness of my own alienation. To me, it always seemed sad that, for example, Athena may have lots of worshipers, but how many people take the time to ring her up just to ask how she's doing? There have been points in my life where I felt like all connections were based on what others wanted from me, and it sucked; it makes me want to just like my friends for who they are, because isn't that enough?

It doesn't seem to work that way for others, though, and they have structure, shared language and shared experience that makes me question myself, my approach. I feel very much like a country hayseed hanging out with the elegantly educated. And, there is the question of results. I've always had it presented to me that magic is working one's will, which is what prompted me to assume I'd never be a magician, because I didn't want to relate to my friends in such ways. I don't compel or beg, because it doesn't seem to be a basis for any kind of friendship. I don't sacrifice things, but I'll share experiences, and most of the time I'll share at least the first swallow of any alcohol with whoever wants to drink it with me (I have what I think of as an open door policy), but pouring on the ground seems less savory than sharing the feel, the taste.

I've recently started to wonder, though; what if they want to be asked? I mean, I'll occasionally ask for a favor for a friend, and it seems to go well, but that feels different, some how, and I never ask for anything for myself. In any of my dealings, with anyone, I really don't want to get into the mindset of tit for tat, of record keeping and accounting, because obligation is a shit way of maintaining a satisfying connection, as far as I'm concerned. But still, some human friends even like being asked for things some times... don't they?

And, despite knowing that my nonhuman friends are there, they feel less immediate lately than they used to. I mean, sure, there are times the wind or sun still very much want my attention, but it's good natured and playful, with nothing of orders or punishments. It could be that I'm getting used to the idea that this is my world, but I really don't think that's all of it, and that makes me wonder if I'm coasting, if maybe I'm supposed to be doing something else, something more, something different.

Add that in with the insecurity I feel around those who speak with the confidence of structure and tradition behind them, and I can't help wondering if maybe I'm doing something wrong, or worse, squandering gifts and connections due to inaction.

I've searched the Temple for what seemed related, including but not limited to the magic vs mysticism thread, the various entries on the planing out of one's practice, the many repetitions of the importance of practice and diligence, as well as a marginally greater than cursory browsing of the aspects of various traditions presented here. While some seem to maybe be topically pertinent or adjacent to the inchoate rambling above, I still find myself searching for... something. Maybe I'm too caught up in the idea of my own special snowflake exceptionalism, or maybe it's just time for me to put aside ferality and consider the value of community. Maybe all I'm really asking, though, is if any of this sounds familiar to anyone?
 
 
electric monk
12:49 / 29.08.08
But still, some human friends even like being asked for things some times... don't they?

Absolutely. In fact, a friend might even feel hurt if you are in need and don't ask.

Look, I speak with a lot less experience than your average Temple denizen, but it's my belief that these Friends of ours actively want to help us. We don't have to demand action or bind them to our magical will or tremble and prostrate ourselves before their mighty presences. We just need to build relationships with them, as best we can. We may not begin the relationship knowing the formalized structure of their traditional rituals or their preferred sacraments, but we can't let that be a barrier to striking up a conversation and beginning (or maintaining, in this case) a relationship. We can learn about their particular modes of veneration through research and study, and this can help deepen our relationships over time. Hell, you can just ask Them if there's anything they might like to have next time they drop by or what might make them more comfortable. As you would with any guest. They'll tell you.

And don't be intimidated by the way others practice their Art. It can be instructive to learn about their practice, but their practice does not automatically invalidate your own. You might learn better ways to do the things you want to do or discover something that you may want to try. You may be forced to question what exactly it is you're doing or how you're going about things. It happens. So question. Find out what works and what doesn't. Find out where you'd like to go and where you might need to go. Talk with your friends and your Friends. Seek advice. And in the end, decide for yourself what your next step should be.

It seems, to me, that you've established some healthy relationships already and that you've got a good basis for working with your Friends in whatever capacity you choose. Don't be afraid to ask for things, and likewise don't be afraid to ask what They need from you.

I hope this helps to answer some of your questions.
 
 
clever sobriquet
14:38 / 29.08.08
Thanks, FINKLESTEIN, that's much appreciated.
 
 
Quantum
15:47 / 29.08.08
maybe I'm doing something wrong

You're not. Think of it like making music- someone else might be rocking out like a metal guru while you are playing Nick Drake style sounds, their rawk does not invalidate your folk.

Or like gardening, if your garden is growing (and it sounds like it is, stretched metaphors aside) you're doing alright, don't look over the fence and sweat that the neighbour's Azalias are so different to your Fuschias.

If that makes sense.
 
 
Neon Snake
16:58 / 29.08.08
I have a couple of different perspectives on this, so I'll present them both.

Caveat, caveat, caveat: My magic practice is entirely without the benefit of what you refer to as 'friends'. I'm going to use the word 'friends' in quotes if I refer to spirits etc to differentiate from friends as in the human kind, since I don't have a better word; please, please, please don't think that the quotes means I'm patronising you! Also, since I don't have those kind of relationships, if someone else comes in after me and contradicts me with the benefit of experience, then ignore me - their advice will trump mine.

OK, now I've hopefully covered my arse...

Point one.

I recently lost my job, and one of the pieces of advice that I recieved was to network like a bastard and speak to all my friends (non-quotes=human), letting them know that I was out of work and looking for a job. I balked slightly at this, since it felt a little rude. "Hi, Jim. How are you? The wife? Great! Anyway, listen, I'm out of work - can I have a job?"

What I found was that, actually, people are flattered massively if you ask for their help and advice. Maybe not if you phoned them up and asked straight out for a job, but for advice. If they are genuinely in a position to help, then it shows that you're using your brain, for one thing; it also shows that you value what they, specifically, can offer that other people maybe cannot.

As with most magic, it's often the case that what you might 'want' is not what you actually 'need'; so advice on helping to achieve that 'need' is usually less crass and yields better results.

Worth a try?

(Old friend of mine phoned me up yesterday and asked for some help with a project. End result, I have a job. Winner.)

Point two.

My entire magical practice is done without the benefit of 'friends'. If you are looking simply to expand the 'results' side of things, could you look into ways that don't bring your 'friends' into the equation? For example, sigils, to bring the obvious one to the table?

That way, you can experiment with magic without worrying about whether you are offending your 'friends' by asking them to do stuff for you?
 
 
Ticker
17:16 / 29.08.08
Neon, I got me an analogy for you. Maybe it will work maybe not.

Imagine you live in a shared house with a few of your roommates on night shift while you are on day shift. Sometimes you are more likely to see signs of their comings and goings or run into them at odd hours in the kitchen on weekends. The toilet backs up and you're there all alone so you call the plumber she fixes it and presents you with a bill. Maybe you decide to leave the bill on the counter for the roommates along with a note, maybe you camp out in the hallway on the weekend to chat with them, or maybe you decide to foot the bill. Possibly one of them may even own the house which dramatically changes the dynamics of if you ask before you call the plumber or whatever.

My rambly point is for many of us our Powers are not the plumber coming in to fix things and we have to pay for their services. Some of Them maybe sharing the space and already have a vested interested, hell maybe They are a plumber as well as a roommmate! Often times with ancestral stuff I feel like I have a house full of People with Opinions Who Want to Help. Some of Them start fixing things without being asked and like a roommate you find a note on the table saying They called the plumber in and picked up the tab. Please don't flush unmentionables in the toilet anymore, thanks.
 
 
Neon Snake
17:24 / 29.08.08
*nods*

Like I say, it's something entirely out of my realm of experience, so I could very well be wrong, and would be very happy to bow to superior knowledge on this one.
 
 
clever sobriquet
17:55 / 29.08.08
Quantum, thanks, yes that makes sense. I suppose part of the issue is that, after years of self-imposed mystic-y isolation, I've finally accumulated enough experience and comfort make contact with others and (attempt to) engage these topics. While I can intellectually anticipate perspectival and linguistic difficulties, the emotional punch is quite different, and I've managed to work myself into quite a knot about it.
 
 
clever sobriquet
18:08 / 29.08.08
Neon: Unsurprisingly, I have issues asking human friends for things as well, so when coupled with the general shakiness I still reflexively carry around for anything magic flavored, it makes me even more reluctant to ask. Rejection or indifference would certainly be bad (though my gut suggests it would be unlikely), the most heartbreaking potential result would be genuine,warm assistance offered in a way that I completely missed and subsequently interpreted as rejection or indifference. Clearly, I have trust issue.

The benefit of exposure to those for whom rigid scientific materialism is not the only option is that I'm realizing many of the small everyday things I already do fall into the results category. A small, but recently utilized, example is that I find the quality of music I get when I hit the 'play all random tracks' button on my mp3 player greatly increases when I think, "Honey, play me a song" first.
 
 
clever sobriquet
17:56 / 03.09.08
Though it's only been a little while, I feel like I need to update. I took the suggestions of several and instead of just sensing and enjoying the presences, actually talked (or wrote) to them, very much with an eye towards communication in their presence. I thanked them for sticking with me, and asked that they let me know if they need or want anything, or if they need or want anything for me as well.

I feel ill equipped to explain the difference that has made, but have already received some pretty clear, bright communications from several, and it's profoundly lightened my outlook and sense of burden. Thanks very much for the insights and suggestions offered here.
 
 
Quantum
15:30 / 05.09.08
See, you weren't doing it wrong. Result!
 
  
Add Your Reply