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US Democratic National Convention 2008

  
 
Ticker
16:47 / 28.08.08
As an American I'm hip deep in the thrum of the US media cranking out the rara machine noise. Yet the speeches so far have been strangely resonate for a jaded broken political system. Ok, with way too much God and Country flag waving for my taste but you know, that's me.
What do you think?

See 'em here:

Democratic National Convention website

There are non plugin needing chunks on youtube as well.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:55 / 28.08.08
Unfortunately they sort of depend on the God & Country flag-waving, it's a kind of verbal shorthand and a bit of misdirection from policy. If you're not talking up the U.S. your patriotism can be questioned, and that can lose votes. After awhile it can become background noise, though, so just focus on that.

Still going through the chunks at the moment. More later.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
17:03 / 28.08.08
I've watched Michelle Obama and Hilary Clinton.

Michelle Obama's speech was interesting but essentially it was the speech of a spouse rather than a politician. She came across as an interesting and capable person, someone who would make a good politician actually but there's not much point in reading the speech critically because her position is not that of someone in public office or the Presidential race.

I'm a Clinton fan. Her speech was beautifully timed, her points made very coherently and balanced with good humour. No way, no how, no McCain was a good soundbite particularly considering the way that some of Hillary Clinton's supporters have been behaving since she stepped out of the nomination process.

The rhetoric is a little annoying, the way that sympathy steps up as a crux of US political speeches, the sentimentality of the business of election is astounding and a little sick at times. It's a language though that needs to be decoded by people listening and what you end up with is we need a federal system that works for the disadvantaged and that should be the primary purpose of the government. Basically it seems like the standard political fodder anyone should expect from the DNC.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
17:06 / 28.08.08
Unfortunately they sort of depend on the God & Country flag-waving

Do you think that the flag waving is really to make the audience seem more interactive and responsive for the cameras?

(That's a question for everyone and anyone to answer by the way)
 
 
electric monk
17:51 / 28.08.08
I've seen most of the major speeches (Michelle Obama, both Clintons, Kerry, and Biden), and a few of the also rans (Tammy Duckworth from Illinois Veteran's Affairs was spectacular). Overall, I think the pacing and tone of the messages has been well thought out. Mrs. Obama's speech talked up the Obama's lives, accomplishments, and family histories in a compelling and skillful way. Both Clinton speeches emphasized uniting behind the candidate, with Hillary's call to unanimously nominate Obama as the candidate in the middle of the roll call acting as a wonderful exclamation point to their praise of the candidate. John Kerry took the gloves off and hammered McCain and the Rove-Swift Boater Slime Machine, while contrasting him with Obama (and where was that John Kerry in '04?!?). Finally, Biden went full steam after his friend, John, and really tore some holes in the attacks the McCain camp has been launching against Obama. It's been like watching a skillful poker player control the action at the table, and I'm feeling pretty confident in the Obama staff and the candidate himself. Dare I say it, they seem to actually know what they're doing!

I watched the proceedings last night on CSPAN, as I just couldn't take the over-analysis from the pundits any longer. I am so tired of hearing them question and re-question if Hillary means what she says. I thought her speech was brilliant, especially when she asked her supporters if they voted for her or the policies and ideals that she stood for. That should have done it, but then the 'heads bring in a body language expert to break down her gestures and such so they can continue the story they want to tell. Sadly, I don't think she'll ever have a hope of shutting them up.

Do you think that the flag waving is really to make the audience seem more interactive and responsive for the cameras?

Oh, it absolutely is. It's not just the American flags either. There's a vast array of signage on display out there, if you watch the crowd shots closely. Obama '08 signs, vertical Biden signs, Hillary signs, 2-sided No McCain/Obama for President signs. All deployed at the proper time for the proper speech in between camera shots. Watch for the floor crews that distribute and collect the things between and during speeches. I'm pretty sure they're the dudes in the neon-green mesh-vests. It's spectacle, specifically designed for broadcast and dissemination. Just like the staging and the seating arrangements and every other detail of the convention.

But, even knowing all that, and the references to God and Country and Patriotism and suchlike... I'm enjoying watching the whole thing. I'm enjoying the punches that are landing on McCain's metaphorical nose. I'm enjoying the optimism and the calls for unity and action and involvement. I've shed a quiet tear or two at the stories of combat veterans and the repeated calls for universal healthcare. I'm feeling the hope, simple-minded sucker that I am. And I cannot wait for Barack Obama's speech tonight.

Thanks for starting this thread, XK. I'd been tempted to start something similar myself, but wasn't sure how much interest it would generate. I'm glad you took the initiative.
 
 
grant
17:53 / 28.08.08
I think they waved little flags before cameras were invented, didn't they? Just to express enthusiasm?
 
 
Ticker
17:57 / 28.08.08
For the flag waving I meant the symbolic more than the actual. The actual was sort of cute 'hey we're at a party WEE' the embedded stuff in the speeches just jars my outraged 'holy crap my country is full of selfish fearmongers' sensibility.

I appreciate the Dems trying to not go mudslinging scumbaggery at the coronation of their shiny shiny candidate but sometimes I want to tune into Keith Olbermann's ranting.
Life in the US right now SUCKS and is made vastly worse by knowing that we've exported our douchery Pax Americana bullshit worldwide. I think the Dems have poked that with a stick but I'd to see it broken open a bit more. The Republicans are going to pull a big ass fear festival and I'd like to see that brutally undermined.

Hillary's speech made me sad that she's not the candidate. Before that I was pretty meh about her. That was a fantastic speech to give in terms of putting McCain's ad campaign using her words against Obama to bed. I also am super excited to have a powerful female politician getting massive air time.

I've been torn about avoiding the speeches and focusing on track records but between Joe Biden and Bill Clinton's speeches I have had this mad urge to hope for a non slack witted sock puppet corporate profiteer scumbag in office. (YMMV)
 
 
Ticker
18:24 / 28.08.08
I just watched Kerry's 'remarks'. Yeah where was *that* dude in '04? Maybe we and he weren't yet truly mortified enough to get uppity. No, screw that we totally were. He was doing the same high road back then that everyone else is doing now.

His whole mini rant on Candidate McCain vs. Senator McCain was fucking brilliant. Maybe the only people who can safely display bitterness are the people who are a few degrees removed from the Obama campaign. Dignity seems to be a big motivator for them.

Problem is I live next to an asshat with a huge garage sized (not exaggerating) McCain sign with more neighbors with 'em down the street. Seems like a lot of the big money houses have a McCain sign. Whatever with them, I'm worried about the smaller families who are voting for McCain. I want to know why they would and so far I haven't felt that the Dems have addressed those reasons.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
18:42 / 28.08.08
I think they waved little flags before cameras were invented, didn't they?

I don't know. We don't wave flags at political events, only at Last Night of the Proms and even then a lot of mockery is involved.
 
 
Ticker
18:48 / 28.08.08
Also isn't considered in poor taste to talk about religion personal faith as a political platform in the UK?

Also fishing convention commentary for links I heart Maddow.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:52 / 28.08.08
I was more referring to metaphorical flag-waving but pretty much -- wave "flag" or flag and crowd will respond, it's a cheap and quick way of getting audience members whipped into a frenzy. It's become pretty standard, it seems, in American politics -- and it probably has an important role, if you look at it in terms of low voter turn-out... (that probably needs to be unpacked, but I'll have to think about it)
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
19:07 / 28.08.08
Don't literal and metaphorical flag waving go hand in hand in US election campaigning? They are essentially the same thing, one is just more verbal than the other and the crowd basically reflects the metaphorical back to the stage and puts emphasis on it through action. Additionally in election campaigns you have to play up the bond between the people you're targetting to vote and the only real common bond is the nation state.

If you talk about religious experience in relation to getting elected in the UK you get soundly insulted by the press. Trying to offload your political responsibility onto a deity is a bit rich, it's fine to have faith but that shouldn't be related to the House of Commons. However the Church of England is basically part of our political system and integral to the role of our Head of State. We have the Queen and Bishops for that kind of thing, it isn't surprising that in a country that elects its Head of State the issue of religion is given more prominence in elections. You have a battle ground for religion, we have religion built into our political system.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
19:22 / 28.08.08
Thanks to GWB, we have Harper saying "God Bless Canada" here. I cringe.
We wave our flags too.
Watching Obama and McCain from up here is interesting, and most Canadians pray for Obama, but I'm afraid that he may be a disappointment. He did vote against making the communications companies retroactively liable for illegal wiretapping. I wonder how many favours he owes and how much crap he'll inherit that he'll have to deal with before he can even think of changing things...
I guess I'm feeling a bit cynical: We may be up for an election here in Canada this fall and we can choose between an evil bastard and a limp noodle. No way the New Democrats will get in... At least we have more than two choices (On paper...)
 
 
Mug Chum
19:43 / 28.08.08
I think it should perhaps be relevant to mention the protests here (and the reaction to them). It's been somewhat hot, no? I've only seen bits here and there, but I caught Iraq vets re-enacting raids, one of Fox News' field guy baiting for more violent reaction (and getting panicked amidst protesters that repeatedly shouted en masse "Fuck Fox News!" live on air), a Code Pink protester being treated with ridiculously extreme force by an officer, photos of the detention areas (some, I believe, called "Freedom Cage"), "free speech zones", etc

Naomi Klein recently talked a great deal on the progressive movement behind Obama needing to apply pressure so the business aspect of the party doesn't co-opt that flow entirely (how Obama is a campaign and a man, that it can serve as a tool for progressive movement, but at the moment that progressive base is being taken for granted). You can also see her more on that in the "The Real News" channel on youtube (as well as a nice 40 min conversation on Obama's 'Kerryfying' on matters of race, poverty and foreign policies and some other good material outside the predominant network/ cable news outlook -- tending more to the side of Maddow and Olbermann, albeit more to the left and less forgiving).

Jeremy Scahill has been reporting for Amy Goodman's Democracy Now and poking around the DNC asking politicians about Biden's (as well as Obama's -- but mostly Biden's) dubious stances and record (his Clinton years, pre-Iraq-War effort, associates etc). And reporting broadly on the overall corporate/showbiz aspect of the convention ("Pepsi Center"?) as well as the hiring of non-unionized workers in Denver and the issue of protesters and excessive security forces.

Al Jazeera has some nice material skimming on the poorer constituency (with less reach and associations) receiving less lip-service on things like the DNC as the elections come closer and away from the primaries' foccus on its base (and how possibly that cooling off and turn to the right, like Kerry, could perhaps be the reason why you see McCain coming closer in the polls).

I just wish Obama did a speech like he did when Clinton stepped out months ago and he became the presumed nominee. It was... pretty awesome.
 
 
Char Aina
20:03 / 28.08.08
there's not much point in reading the speech critically because her position is not that of someone in public office or the Presidential race.

Unless you think a candidate comes as a team with their partner. That certainly seemed to be a selling point of Hillary, and of Bill back in the day. I think it makes sense; a well supported candidate can do more. I think if Michelle has no effect on her partner's work, he and she aren't doing it right.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:05 / 28.08.08
As ever the best commentary has been from 'The Daily Show' where John Stewart said something along the lines of "Democrats always have to prove they love their country, Republicans, everyone knows they love their country, they just hate most of the people in it."

What I want to know is whether the Hillary supporters who will now support McCain are a real problem or more of a media concoction. Are they just a literal few kooks who are being given undue prominence by a right-wing media eagerly looking for any conflict they can pump up to fill their schedules?
 
 
FinderWolf
20:41 / 28.08.08
Watched last night (previously I had only read news reports & speeches the following day from the DNC) and it was pretty great... was good to see Madeleine Albright up there. Bill Clinton really wowed 'em; most of the speeches were examples of excellent rhetoric, delivered by compelling speakers. Biden nailed it... after a while, though, I'd had enough and turned it off about 3/4 into Biden's speech. And yes, Kerry did indeed come alive and his speech was exceedingly well-written, and he spoke with considerable passion that recalled his Vietnman war protesting days.

McCain's campaign is actually going to come out with an ad for today and perhaps the first half of tomorrow commending Obama on being the nation's first black Presidential nominee (coming as it does on the 45th anniversary of the "I have a dream" MLK speech). McCain's ad says something like "Too often an opponent's achievements go unnoticed; today is a great day for America. Tomorrow we'll be back at it, but for today... job well done, Senator Obama." Kinda cool. Obviously, it may be solely something that his advisors said 'you should do this and it will make you seem like less of a prick' but still, doing it is a decent gesture even if it may have selfish motivations. It reminds me of the apocryphal tale of the Germans and American forces sharing drink & singing Christmas songs for one night before going back to war with each other the very next day.
 
 
Mug Chum
20:54 / 28.08.08
who are being given undue prominence by a right-wing media eagerly looking for any conflict they can pump up to fill their schedules?

From what I've been reading lately on blogs like Hullabaloo that seems to be the case, just blown out of proportion like most cable news' issues. Specially given that those are, IIRC, what are usually called "Reagan Democrats". That can't be a lot of people, right? Wouldn't that be like "Hitler Zionists"? Don't they just implode out of the fabric of time and space for negating itself? Wouldn't Reaganites be the sort of republicans that have a firm hatred for the Clintons?

The description that most made sense to me was one I read months ago (don't ask me where), that they fit as the people who voted for Bush, thought Iraq was correct at the time, who wouldn't go for McCain's Bushisms. And Clinton sort of fit in that sense for the notion that Iraq was a right call at the time and wouldn't really admit it was a mistake now (since that would be something a dirty fucking peace hippie would do), but believe it is time to pull out (and I guess some are also folks that couldn't believe the amount of sexism in how Clinton was treated).
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
20:57 / 28.08.08
Unless you think a candidate comes as a team with their partner. That certainly seemed to be a selling point of Hillary, and of Bill back in the day. I think it makes sense; a well supported candidate can do more.

Well the Spouse of the President can choose how much he or she wants to be involved in the activity of the government or matters surrounding governance. However that person is not elected and if I was a member of the US electorate I would not want to elect someone on the basis of the actions or words of their spouse because that would indicate that I felt the actions of that person made a difference to their performance as the Head of State of the US. I don't think that's necessarily the case and furthermore I think that I personally would be happy to elect a person whose partner suffered from some kind of illness or who was single or who was homosexual. Having an expectation of the personal life of the President is not acceptable to me outside of their politics and on that basis I am unwilling to treat Michelle Obama's speech as a political statement.

I think that's how I feel about it anyway.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
21:25 / 28.08.08
Apart from some clips on BBC et al I've haven't seen much of this, but judging from the amount of international press it gets, I'm guessing it's perceived as a helluva lot more interesting and important in the US than it has been for yonks?

As for the role of M. Obama - I don't see how any public appearance she makes in her capacity as the spouse of the (presumed) Democratic presidential nominee can be treated as anything but political? If anything, she's there to try and get more people to vote for her husband, no? And surely that's a political act, whether or not the content of her speech (which I do not know) was particularly political or not. I think.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:32 / 28.08.08
If anything, she's there to try and get more people to vote for her husband, no? And surely that's a political act, whether or not the content of her speech (which I do not know) was particularly political or not. I think.

That pretty much sums it up -- she's a political figure by virtue of being connected to a political figure -- she's running for office (First Lady) in a very real way as well.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
21:36 / 28.08.08
Just for the record I agree with with Fear Anna in that I think that ideally the spouse of the Commander-in-Chief should be totally irrelevant to the electorate. Unfortunately that's not been the case for as long as I can remember, neither in the US or anywhere else I have come across.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
21:46 / 28.08.08
But it's possible for any individual member of the electorate to vote for the President rather than the President and his/her romantic partner. Ideally people would vote without relying on the press for their information regarding political candidates. This is more difficult in the US because it's a country where cake recipes seem to list the brands of products but you have to hope that some small proportion of people look at a candidate's voting record.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:50 / 28.08.08
Anna sums it up pretty well, but the big but is that in this instance, Obama has a spouse, and they've choosen to play her up as a factor--particularly given that politician's personal lives are treated with a great deal of scrutiny right now, I think it's a safe assumption they couldn't get away from her being a political figure. The American population (or the American media, anyway) make it difficult not to view political decisions and opinions without the lens of personal life over top -- for good or ill, really.

For what it's worth, a few of my meatspace friends who are following American politics (well, Canadian politics as well, but American in this instance) have said they'd prefer to vote for Michelle Obama for president, though I haven't had a chance to look at her speech myself.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
22:03 / 28.08.08
I think it wouldn't be overstating the mark to say that being a single person with no children at the age of 50 would not help you in a US Presidential campaign. If you got there. So the fact that they've put Michelle Obama out there... well Laura Bush in 2004, even Barbara Bush was active on the campaign trail, even if she seemed incredibly benign. As a potential First you're going to be used and abused.
 
 
Tsuga
22:15 / 28.08.08
There's a concerted attempt to show that Barack Obama and his family are normal human beings that it's okay to vote for, many conservatives have been trying to portray Barack as a radical (see: Wright and Ayers) and Michelle as "angry". And ultimately, that's a perception that they've actually got to fight, I mean, many people are so fearful and uncreative that if it's not a white man, it kind of freaks them out.
As far as Hilary supporters going for McCain, I believe the last polling showed 20 percent or more saying that they would vote for McCain, with a larger percentage undecided. That is statistically a significant amount, and an important voting bloc to go for.
My favorite speech so far was Bill, but I missed Biden. Bill did such a wonderful job of laying it out plainly, without too much stiff rhetoric. Say what you want about the guy, but he's just such a good orator sometimes.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:47 / 29.08.08
Hmm, so now there's rumblings that McCain will choose a female Republican VP candidate to appear more progressive and get the female vote... should be interesting to see how this all plays out. I feel that if McCain chooses Romney as his VP, Obama is very likely to win.
 
 
Ticker
14:05 / 29.08.08
The spouse pointed out either you dig Bill or you don't but if you do when he gets up there it's showtime.

We had a mini debate about if Bill's public scandal caused a backlash or if it was all smoke and mirrors anyway as Gore technically won. But I tanget-ess.


What did you think of Obama's speech? There was definitely a moment when he ref'd MLK where my cynicism took a back seat to a random (ok highly orchestrated) feeling of patriotic pride in my people. I dug Obama's point that change doesn't come from Washington it goes to Washington. I wasn't quite entirely swayed into believing we could get a progressive helpful government (for more than a brief flashback to Heinleinian fantasy) but you know Iliked him as a candidate. I liked him calling shit as I saw it in the world, I liked him wagging his finger and being pissed off. I'm not sure if having him as President will in fact bring about a solar powered shiny future (he had guts to mention clean nuclear power) but you know hey I'm going to vote for him. (Originally I was a Kucinich voter but the two party system is not kind.)

As for Michelle Obama I firmly believe the stereotypical misogyny showed up trying to tear her down presenting her as a angry black woman. It was total bullshit over the 'terrorist fistbump' claptrap and the whole love of country shite. When she said it was the first time she felt pride her country I was right there with her. I mean it is shameful what the US gets up to with its own people let alone out in the world. yikes how could a sane person not be mortified most of the time? Americans want people they can relate to in the White House, or people they think are like them only better. so the First Mate gets plenty of scrutiny as does the family because the voters want to see what your personal life says about you. It's stupid considering how much spin there is anyway. But I think it was genius to mention that Michelle and Barack could only have been there because they received an education from the blood and sweat of their families support. That's what resonates with many people.

I'm glad Obama ref's NOLA, Iraq, and other pieces of heinousness. The 'protect Israel' line was like the pinch on the arm that yeah I'm not dreaming because some American fictions need to be preserved.

As for the McCain ad on MLK/Obama ref he has got to cover his ass as people see him as just one more rich white dude who would probably have little black jockeys holding lanterns on the lawn if some adviser didn't come replace them with potted mums. Mind you McCain voted against MLK day in '83 and the ACLU tracks him as voting against civil rights legislation.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:36 / 29.08.08
Hmm, so now there's rumblings that McCain will choose a female Republican VP candidate to appear more progressive and get the female vote... should be interesting to see how this all plays out. I feel that if McCain chooses Romney as his VP, Obama is very likely to win.

And, he did.

Which makes me think "You evil genius, I just hope people see through this obvious ploy."

What's interesting about this choice is that the Dems are immediately pointing out that this makes the experience issue moot. It's typical Republican Use and Abuse tactics that hopefully will blow up in their face given all the downsides: Experience double-standard, Obvious grab at disgruntled Hillary supporters, etc.

Coming off the high of Obama's speech last night, this makes me even more angry at the McCain camp.
 
 
Ticker
17:47 / 29.08.08
It also renders an extra ugly image of what the GOP think women want in politics, sort of a stand in as Palin as been called "a young female McCain". You know folks that even if that is true a young female McCain has nothing on Hillary, right?

I should however direct this rant to the McCain/Palin thread, shouldn't I...

As for the Dem Con, the long and short of it was I wished there could have been an Obama/Hillary ticket. I understand why it couldn't happen but I still wish it did.
 
  
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