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Italy

 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:41 / 28.07.08
So this is a thread to discuss current affairs in Italy, which have just taken a huge turn for the worse:

Italy targets illegal immigrants

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has won parliamentary backing for a crime package critics say discriminates against immigrants.

Under new laws approved by the Senate, illegal immigrants convicted of crimes will now face jail sentences a third longer than those for Italians.

Courts will be able to jail illegal immigrants for up to four years rather than simply deport them.

Property rented to illegal immigrants can also be confiscated.

Both the Catholic Church and Italy's left-wing opposition say that, as well as targeting immigrants unfairly, the new laws may also encourage racism.


This comes after the recent case where the bodies of two gypsy girls were left on a beach while sunbathers carried on as normal around them:

It's another balmy weekend on the beach in Naples. By the rocks, a couple soak up the southern Italian sun. A few metres away, their feet poking from under beach towels that cover their faces and bodies, lie two drowned Roma children.

The girls, Cristina, aged 16, and Violetta, 14, were buried last night as the fallout from the circumstances of their death reverberated throughout Italy.

It is an image that has crystallised the mounting disquiet in the country over the treatment of Roma, coming after camps have been burnt and the government has embarked on a bid to fingerprint every member of the minority. Two young Roma sisters had drowned at Torregaveta beach after taking a dip in treacherous waters. Their corpses were recovered from the sea – then left on the beach for hours while holidaymakers continued to sunbathe and picnic around them.


And of course the case we discussed a few weeks ago, Tunisian fishermen face 15 years' jail in Italy for saving migrants from rough seas.

What do we think of this, and what's to be done about it?
 
 
Closed for Business Time
14:07 / 28.07.08
It's shit and we can do fuck all? Or,

It's shit and we can boycott all things Italian. Or,

It's shit, and they thoroughly deserve what they asked for in the first place (ie Berlusconi's empire, neo-fascism, mafia/corruption/legal nihilism).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:20 / 28.07.08
Erm, I'm pretty sure neither the Roma nor the immigrants asked for that...
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
22:43 / 28.07.08
It reminds me of the corpse that reclined casually against a tree in Central Park for three days a few years ago.

What's the cut-off when seeing a motionless figure before we have to prod them?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:13 / 29.07.08
One difference being that the people on this beach had seen these girls getting into trouble, had attempted to save them and thus at least those on the beach at that point knew perfectly well that they were dead. Having said which, the beachgoers did try to save them, by other accounts - it's not totally open and shut.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
10:10 / 29.07.08
Yeah, you're right Stoatie. The Roma (whether immigrant or not) and other minorities certainly don't deserve the treatment they're getting atm. The "white" Italians, I sometimes think, deserve their state of slow decline.

Why deserve? Well, re-electing Berlusconi for starters. Not wanting, daring or bothering to rejig their political economy away from a corrupt "black economy" and patriarchal clientelism towards something approaching a transparent, law-abiding one. Not stopping the politicisation and instrumentalisation of their mass media.

Maybe I'm being unfair here. It's not like I've had to deal with mafiosi all my life.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:26 / 29.07.08
I don't think even 'the white Italians' deserve it, seeing as most of them probably didn't actually vote for Berlusconi (or, for some sort of Berlusconi-arranged reason, didn't have as much of a choice).
 
 
Closed for Business Time
12:52 / 29.07.08
I'm being slightly hyperbolic, just so that's said. Re the point on how many voted for him: Out of a 80.5% turnout, his alliance, the People of Freedom, got 46.8% of the votes for the Chamber of Deputies and 47.3% of the votes for the Senate. By my reckoning he got almost 38% of the total number of possible votes, ie if everyone had voted and the proportions were the same, he'd get 38%. That's a pretty strong public mandate in my opinion. Granted, the centre-left coalition of Veltroni got 38% of cast votes, so it wasn't a cruching victory, but still Berlusconi & Co are enjoying a pretty solid (by Italian standards) parliamentary majority.

And this is what amazes me, that a lot of Italians think that this guy can solve their problems. Then again, when it comes to politics, I'm easily amazed for all the wrong reasons.

Numbers from here.
 
 
COG
19:34 / 29.07.08
Let´s not forget that Berlusconi has just ushered in a law that makes his supposed crimes all nice and legal because he's an important person.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
20:21 / 29.07.08
Not just his, but a lot of his connections' crimes as well, if I remember correctly. Again, a degree of legal nihilism that comes with the clientelistic territory. Of course, Italians are not alone in having these kinds of political-economical arrangements. Just look at Spain, Greece and Portugal, or most of Latin America for that matter.

Italy's strength is maybe the fact that whatever its political shortcomings post WW2, it hasn't, like Spain, Greece, Portugal, Turkey and most other of the Mediterranean states, had a coup, a junta, a dictator, or civil wars of any kind. Terror and political violence aplenty at times, but nonetheless relatively stable. After all we're talking about the 7th largest economy in the world, so this is a good thing, in some way.

But of course that brings us right back to the underground and informal economies. The criminal economy of Italy filters at least 10% of total turnover. Almost everyone in Italy are affected by this in some way or other, as well as countless people that depend on Italian mafias to buy, sell and supply guns, drugs, people and contraband all over the place. So it's of course a problem that transcends Italy and Italians.
 
  
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