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Batman and Robin (PICS, SPOILERS)

 
  

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Mug Chum
13:32 / 05.07.08
In more serious news...

AICN:
"Rumors that director Christopher Nolan will be using CGI in the third film in order to be more faithful to McKean-Morrison portrayal of the Joker confirms the veracity of this photo.

"Faithfulness to the Honor of the story is very important to me. Specially in the case of this specific story. It'll be very faithful", said Nolan, "We'll even put static and fuck up the sound so you won't be able to understand him like in the comi... Graphic Novel".

No comment was released so far on this photo."
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:27 / 07.07.08
BANE: Adam Baldwin

PENGUIN: Alec Baldwin

THEY ARE NOT RELATED.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:47 / 07.07.08
So they could kiss in the film and it'd be alright.
 
 
grant
17:33 / 07.07.08
Miley Cyrus.

as Robin.

I kinda think Jack Black would make a fun Riddler, too.
 
 
iamus
19:25 / 08.07.08
Ontopic, please, iamus.

Ach, sorry man.

It's just that this thread's attitude, and it's presence in FTV+T irks me a bit. I probably wouldn't mind as much if it was in Convo, whether I agreed with it or not. Here it just seems to me to spell out the worse aspects of Barbelith's decline and cheapens the place a bit.

I personally don't have a problem with the Dark Knight thread, and I don't think the embarrassing detour the previous one took should necessarily have spelled its doom. Hype is increasingly becoming part of the Event Movie experience, as valid in its own way as the movie itself. The buildup is part of the thing. When people get a little overexcited and unchecked, it means that they're being moved in one way or the other. It means that something's grabbing their attention and taking them places. That's a cool thing worth documenting. I feel Barbelith would be better served incorporating that peculiarly internet phenomenon and doing it's own thing with it, instead of mocking it to pretend that, y'know, "We don't actually do that stuff".

We do.


While I think it's a fair criticism that movies often get a thread pile-on during the pre-release and then get dropped when they actually come out, it's hardly a foregone conclusion. Batman Begins was hyped to high fuck and there was plenty of discussion post-release too. In my mind, there's an equal chance that getting people embarrassed about talking the movie up would be just as damaging to getting any actual discourse going when the thing's out.

If we don't gush this shit in the run-up, how do we know what the rest of our community's feelings on it are? Or how excited they feel? It's the foreplay. It's what gets the conversation going when the time's right for it.

If there's any problem here, it's not Barbelith's. It's the promotional machine for the film which these days, shaped by pressures of what the internet actually is and does, rolls a lot earlier and far more cleverly. To me, that's not a problem. It's just a thing that's happened. I think Barbelith would pass into the twilight a lot more gracefully if it tried to accept that and run with it, instead of complaining like a crotchety old thing who's picking fights 'cause it's just shamed itself.

Personally, I'd like to see this Convo'd. That's just my opinion though.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:30 / 08.07.08
Hype is increasingly becoming part of the Event Movie experience, as valid in its own way as the movie itself.

Valid in what way?
 
 
iamus
22:03 / 08.07.08
Valid in and of itself as a distinct part of the movie experience. Your experience of a film doesn't begin when the lights go down and end when the credits go up. If it did, there wouldn't be such a thing as internet discussion. If all we were concerned with is the movie itself, we'd all be typing in the dark, frantically trying to transcribe our thoughts, missing the explosions as they fire across the screen, trying our hardest to finish up and hit post before the man in the rubber suit jumps off the last building to the swelling orchestral score. I think that discussing your experiences of anticipation leading up to a movie can be every bit as important as your feelings of elation/woe leading away from a movie.

They're different things, aye. But both have their place.

I don't see how the drip-feed of content, designed particularly to access and drum up our collective investment in these characters, to make us talk about why we like them so much and why they resonate for us, is any less worthy of discussion than how we felt that exact same investment in character and setting was serviced, after the fact.
 
 
iamus
22:06 / 08.07.08
Plus, well, I did kind of explain that in the same paragraph quoted.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:09 / 08.07.08
Considering a movie to be a more interesting subject of conversation than the rumours, trailers, still photos, posters and puff-pieces that precede it is in no sense comparable to wanting a movie to be discussed while it is being viewed. That has to be the most outlandish and unhelpful reductio ad absurdum I've encountered in a long time.
 
 
iamus
22:21 / 08.07.08
You may have missed the point of what I'm getting at.

The movie's the bit in the middle. Different types of discussion happen at either end, based on the different types of information about that movie available at those times. In your opinion, the stuff that comes after is more important. I disagree.

The point I'm trying to make with the absurd transcription metaphor(?) is that, in the lead up to the film you're going on trailers, stills, worldbuilding media. In the time after the film, you're going from memory, emotion, all that nebulous, fallible stuff. If it was the actual movie we were discussing, we would be typing in the dark.

It's not the actual movie we're discussing. It never is and never has been.
 
 
Tsuga
23:05 / 08.07.08
Plus, well, I did kind of explain that in the same paragraph quoted.
Yes, you did.

I have to say, while I understand the points you're making, I think that "actual movie" comment is a little tenuous.


the drip-feed of content, designed particularly to access and drum up our collective investment in these characters, to make us talk about why we like them so much and why they resonate for us

Maybe that's a more important distinction to make, that discussion of the mechanics of hype is valid, where participating in and perpetuating the hype is more wanky. I don't know if much of the DK discussion has been the former as opposed to the latter. It seems discussing elements beforehand, or even speculating, has the potential for valuable discourse. I don't have much of a problem, personally, with discussion of a movie before it opens, I know I've done it a little. I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it certainly can be pretty weak and thin sometimes. I suppose it's hard to stop the juggernaut of speculation by obsessing fans. Maybe the only way to regulate impulsive, speculative, rumor-mongering is by making fun of it or locking threads, but there seems at times to be very broad condemnation of any discussion before release. Do you feel that any pre-release discussion is valid, Fly?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:19 / 08.07.08
The movie's the bit in the middle.

Actually, the movie is the movie. In this case, the movie is BATMAN AND ROBIN. The fact that nobody has made this movie yet, according to your argument, has no bearing on how great the discussion of the build-up to the movie can be. I don't understand your negativity, really, iamus. Y SO SRS? SRSLY.
 
 
iamus
23:23 / 08.07.08
Uh-hu.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:42 / 08.07.08
Maybe the only way to regulate impulsive, speculative, rumor-mongering is by making fun of it or locking threads,

There is no way to regulate it - the set of people susceptible to being shamed and the set of people posting links to publicity shots and AICN do not significantly overlap. We could start deleting and banning people for linking to publicity shots, but I don't think it's likely to happen. The original DKR thread, while a saddening demonstration of how uncritically Spectacle regulars can allow themselves to be manipulated by PR agencies, was only locked when Dead Megatron punched through the taste event horizon.

Speaking personally, I don't quite understand why people are getting upset about this thread, if the actual film's existence is not a necessary element to the existence of great discussion about the film - see Watchmen, which as far as I know still has no physical existence. I also don't think iamus' approach is a very useful one - it is dismissive as Internet Plain Speaker arguments are often dismissive, but its basic contention - that the discussion of a film that has not been seen is just as valid a discussion of a film as discussion of a film that has been seen - is not I think as incontrovertible, even prima facie, as the Internet Plain Speaker approach generally requires. If it was the actual movie we were discussing, we would be typing in the dark is - and this is not a word I use very often - sophistry. It's exactly like saying that we cannot possibly be talking about a book, but only the memory of a book, nor a television series but only a series of sounds and images imperfectly replicated in our minds, nor our mother but only a bunch of sensory inputs that we have placed in the drawer marked "mother" - correct at the most granular level of detail, but totally unhelpful in matching how we experience things to how we talk about them.

There's a good case for this thread to be in the Conversation - I've moved it there a couple of times myself - but that's a different matter.
 
 
iamus
23:54 / 08.07.08
Rumbled!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:26 / 09.07.08
One might also add, looking at the two "Dark Knight" threads, that they are in fact the only things that have made me less enthusiastic about a film that I am otherwise very interested to see. That is, while Tsuga is perfectly right to say that there is the potential for valuable discourse, I haven't found that potential to have been fulfilled in these cases. I don't think that makes me a crotchety old man, although I will cop to being less generally pleased with things than may currently be the fashion.

However, I am still excited about BATMAN and ROBIN, and it's action scenes like this that help to explain why. Who is this mysterious stranger coming to grips with the Penguin?



I'm not certain, but I reckon it might be Jean Paul Valley.
 
 
Tsuga
00:45 / 09.07.08
I don't understand why anyone would be getting upset about this thread, either.

Batman: Brendan Fraser or Ben Affleck

Robin: Daniel Radcliffe or both of the Olson Twins (saves on production cost)

Penguin: Kevin Smith
 
 
HCE
01:59 / 09.07.08
If that penguin is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:29 / 09.07.08
Well, it has already gone to the Conversation twice, I believe, and been returned both times - presumably on the grounds that it is a thread about a film.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:29 / 09.07.08
Well, it has already gone to the Conversation twice, I believe, and been returned both times - presumably on the grounds that it is a thread about a film.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:30 / 09.07.08
Well, it has already gone to the Conversation twice, I believe, and been returned both times - presumably on the grounds that it is a thread about a film. We could go round again...
 
 
iamus
09:44 / 09.07.08
Clever, that.

Fair doos then.
 
 
iamus
14:39 / 09.07.08
Hrrrm. That's odd.

How come my previous question isn't there any more?
 
 
iamus
15:26 / 09.07.08
Now, see, that is a bit weird, isn't it?

Cause here's a screengrab I took earlier (Don't ask me why. Intuitive twinge. I've learned to go with it).



Where it's under brb's post, but before Haus'.


Now, it seems to have vanished!




Is Barbelith experiencing technical hiccups?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:10 / 09.07.08
Dunno, sorry - only just peeked in. Triple post above suggests it's possible.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:18 / 09.07.08
I thought I had double-posted, and tried to delete one of those dupes - the wrong post might have been deleted. More to the point, how often do you screencap Barbelith, dude? Is there a visual archive in the making?
 
 
iamus
16:26 / 09.07.08
Almost never. Just got the wee voice. Usually does me alright, so I tend to listen.

My post disappeared way after your double post though, by a good few hours I think. How does post deletion work then? It requires verification by others first, right?
 
 
iamus
16:27 / 09.07.08
That would explain the lag...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:39 / 09.07.08
If you move to delete within five minutes, which I did, it's instantaneous. Otherwise you need two moderators, which in FTV&T can take ages. So, that's not it. Minor boardquake, probably.
 
 
iamus
16:55 / 09.07.08
Fair doos.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:13 / 10.07.08
Back ontopic: CANDID SHOT OF BANE!

 
 
Dead Megatron
09:39 / 11.07.08
The original DKR thread, while a saddening demonstration of how uncritically Spectacle regulars can allow themselves to be manipulated by PR agencies, was only locked when Dead Megatron punched through the taste event horizon.

Well, where is my "thank you", then? Plus, you're being modest, you had as much to do with the lack of taste thereof as me. And you know it, babe.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:27 / 11.07.08
Ontopic, please.
 
 
Dead Megatron
12:01 / 11.07.08
Sorry, let me rephrase

Y SO SRS?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:11 / 16.07.08
Smith and Papers, as part of an ongoing campaign to make it clear to Zibarro that his interests are worthless, said in another thread:

***

If no one has any objections, and with regard to the thread's bent toward Bat-multiplicity, here's a youtube link to a fan-made trailer for a hypothetical Arkham Asylum that panthergod posted in the Comics. Worth looking at it in its approach to Batman with heavy emphasis on the dark without really focusing on attempts at realism -- a weird expressionistic take, with a heavy dose of Lovecraft and the Uncanny (the bugs, the bugs!). How would people feel about seeing a movie like that? It goes a bit farther away from the noir into outright horror.

I'm interested in people's reactions to the Joker, who's an outright caricature and more muppet than man.

***

I think it belongs here, since ARKHAM ASYLUM will be the fifth Christopher Nolan movie, after, confusingly, YEAR ONE.
 
  

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