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Let's All Meet Up in The Year 1000

 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
17:22 / 11.06.08
From here, a question from a concerned citizen:

I wanted to ask for survival tips in case I am unexpectedly transported to a random location in Europe (say for instance current France/Benelux/Germany) in the year 1000 AD (plus or minus 200 years). I assume that such transportation would leave me with what I am wearing, what I know, and nothing else. Any advice would help.

Since we're all generally unstupid here how about we give this a go? How do you you win friends and influence people, or just plain survive, in the Dark Ages?
 
 
Princess
17:24 / 11.06.08
I would suggest the designs for technology that did not exist, but which did in my time.

Like Gary in "Goodnight Sweetheart", only with technology and the potential to destroy the culture I had landed in.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:03 / 11.06.08
Operating by "Terminator Rules", in that I arrive nude and confused in the exact spatial coordinates in which I left my own time, a simple probability analysis shows that I would be devoured by a wolverine almost immediately. Supposing I were to survive, I would attempt to locate the nearest camp of one of the Native tribes in the area. At this point I would attempt, Bene Gesserit Missionaria Protectiva style, to use my strange appearance and knowledge of the local mythological and spiritual beliefs to secure my position somewhere in their culture. This would obviously be hampered by the fact that I can't speak a word of any Native language, but I'm a quick learner.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
18:07 / 11.06.08
Chainsaw for a hand and a "Boom-Stick" would help.

Ok Seriously: Get naked, quick. Ditch all clothes and jewelery and roll in the mud. Get dirty, tear your fingernails, bruise yourself up a bit. Any whiff of present day will get you burned as a witch. Hide until you can steal clothes. If you are spoken to (And you won't understand...) play mute until you can pick up rudimentary phrases. At first, don't look anyone in the eye, assume a passive posture. Live on the absolute fringes until you can addapt to your surroundings. Play dumb as much as possible. No matter how hard you think you are, the locals are harder. If in doubt, run.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:24 / 11.06.08
No matter how hard you think you are, the locals are harder.

I don't buy this. Personally, I'm about as hard as a yorkshire terrier, but wouldn't someone from our own time be generally healthier? And how many people in a feudal system would be trained for any kind of combat? Not counting the sort of strength one achieves by a lifetime of manual labor, I don't see what sort of advantage a serf or townsperson would have over someone from modern times with even rudimentary combat training.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:27 / 11.06.08
If you made it to adulthood, so the theory goes, you'd probably be a fairly hardy specimen generally. Poor nutrition might hamper your growth if you didn't come from the upper crust, so the modern guy might overtake you in terms of reach, but you'd be able to bite the fuck out of the dude with your surprisingly healthy teeth.
 
 
Triplets
18:30 / 11.06.08
Does... does anyone else want to see this comic, Tuna Ghost Busts The Peasants? The comic that does what none-else would?

"You thought you were tough, you... you serfs! But your not! When you behold the power of my mighty meatfists you behold the future!"
 
 
Janean Patience
18:34 / 11.06.08
Pop songs. Everyone loves pop songs. I'll get the benighted, religion-terrorised peoples to join me in a rendition of He's The Greatest Dancer and from that triumph go on to rule the world.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
19:01 / 11.06.08
Heh... At 6'5", 260lbs (Mostly fat, I admit) I still think I'd be nervous against a 5'2" serf who may have spent a good chunk of his/her life hauling stones, pulling stumps, and who, I'd imagine, generally spends more time fighting for everything he/she possesses. I believe for the most part we in the west live in much softer times. Serfs were still called to fight for the lord pretty often when two royals got into a petty pissing match.
And they fought with farm implements. I wouldn't wanna fuck with 'em.
Lets not forget: they also have the numbers, even if you could take them one-on-one.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
19:06 / 11.06.08
why do you think I want to learn how to navigate a sailboat without the aid of modern technology? the same reason I took archery and fencing in college to the detriment of my computer degree, and spent as much time as possible learning to work in my boss's garden in california instead of programming.

sooner or later, everyone ends up in the middle ages. not preparing for it is just silly.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
19:08 / 11.06.08
wait, is 1000 the middle ages?

damn, knew I should have taken more history and less archery.
 
 
Axolotl
19:13 / 11.06.08
Yes! Claiming the Beatles back catalogue as my very own invention I would be acclaimed as a musical genius.

Either that or be struck down by anyone of the horrible diseases that are epidemic in the era. I guess you might end up the Typhoid Mary of the dark ages if you infected them with one of our horrible diseases.

It's a fairly common trope in schlocky sci-fi, if you're interested a couple of good (well, y.m.m.v) examples are the 1632 series by Eric Flint, the Nantucket series by S. M. Stirling though they both have a certain amount of modern technology with them. More in the vein of your question is the Conrad Stargard series by Leo Frankowski, but iirc it suffers from some dodgy sexual politics and the main character being a blatant Mary-Sue.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
19:30 / 11.06.08
for time traveler not ready for how sucky the past is books I'd have to recommend the Doomsday Book by Connie Willis. pretty grim though.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
19:31 / 11.06.08
Those horrible diseases are mostly ones we twenty-first century spacepeople are either inoculated against, too healthy or too smart to get. I don't think there are any recent diseases apart from AIDs that we're likely to import back to the past.

One of the key things to remember here is how much do we really know about the technology we use? Take the Dark-Age Beatles idea- even if you've got enough of their back catalog memorized to play a set to the smelly peasants in exchange for turnips where is your guitar coming from? Could you build one from scratch? What are you going to use for strings?
 
 
Mistoffelees
19:58 / 11.06.08
for time traveler not ready for how sucky the past is books I'd have to recommend the Doomsday Book by Connie Willis. pretty grim though.

I thought of that book, too. It was pretty grim. And it dealt with the language barrier quite well. I´ve listened to songs in medieval german and it´s probably as difficult/impossible to understand as medieval english for people used to modern english. Haus might be able to get around, if he can get to a priest that was able to learn latin.

I´d pull the aristocrat number from the Doomsday Book. Having all my teeth, being six feet tall, having no calluses on my hands and being quite pale should be enough to convince people, that I´m some lost noble man.
 
 
Triplets
20:22 / 11.06.08
Those horrible diseases are mostly ones we twenty-first century spacepeople are either inoculated against, too healthy or too smart to get.

Our future-versions of diseases, sure, but what about 1000AD-editions of bumflux, cobbler's elbow and acute rhyoma? Vice versa: would people's immune systems from that time be strong enough to deal with our assorted bugs?
 
 
Mirror
20:49 / 11.06.08
Heh... At 6'5", 260lbs (Mostly fat, I admit) I still think I'd be nervous against a 5'2" serf who may have spent a good chunk of his/her life hauling stones, pulling stumps, and who, I'd imagine, generally spends more time fighting for everything he/she possesses. I believe for the most part we in the west live in much softer times.

It really depends upon where you land, doesn't it? I mean, there's a big difference between taking on an oppressed European peasant, a Viking raider, or some tribal native who's spent his whole life hunting and gathering.

Having done a bit of travel in some relatively undeveloped parts of the world today where conditions aren't all that different from 1000 years ago, I'd guess that the chances of a relatively fit modern person against a (single) medieval serf would be reasonably good. The advantages of mass and general good health can't be overstated; if it's taking most of a person's energy just to stay alive they won't have much left for fighting.

That only applies to one-on-one combat, though. If a bunch of locals decide to stone you, you're hosed, so yeah, living at the fringes probably gives you your best shot at survival. If you don't look like the locals, that probably won't work either so your best bet is to try to be perceived as a god of some sort.
 
 
Char Aina
21:46 / 11.06.08
wait, is 1000 the middle ages?

Depends who you ask, but I usually think of the middle ages proper as 1066-1485. Traveling to the UK in 1000AD, one would arrive in a pre-conquest Britain. That puts you at the end of the the Dark Ages, sometimes called the early Middle Ages, and a good two lifetimes away from William the Bastard's ascension to William the Conqueror fame.

If you were lucky enough to live a life as long as today's average, you might even be around for King Canute's death, and the reign of Macbeth up here in Scotland.

Sod all that, though. I'd rather go back to present day Zimbabwe for my time travel jaunt. In 1050, the now area around the Limpopo was becoming important.
I'd aim to arrive in Mapungubwe, founded by the Limpopo river around then, rising to prominence in the early years of that millennium.
I'd get in there early, maybe even be a part of the embryonic Southern African capital that gave way to Great Zimbabwe, the great city of the south. Sure, Mapungubwe was no Alexandria, but it had character. It may not have lasted long, but the city that followed it was fucking huge, and the ruins it left more impressive than many. Karl Mauch, the guy who discovered them(although re-discovered is more accurate; he wasn't even first after the inhabitants) assumed they were the ruins of an invaders stronghold. I think he credited the Phonecians, doubting the locals ability. To be fair, he was seeing them after years of war had destroyed their infrastructure and all but wiped out their culture, and there was a well worn trade route between the Shona and the Phoenicians.

Great Zimbabwe is the source of the eight famous soapstone carvings, one of which is represented on the flag of the current Republic of Zimbabwe, a link to history that seems as unfortunate now as did grand in 1980 when Mugabe won control from Ian Smith.
Mapungubwe was the beginning - and Great Zimbabwe the continuation - of a burgeoning class culture in Southern Africa that lasted for a long time, and that some say still guides today's politics underneath it all.

Personally I think that last bit's bollocks. I think Mugabe is just Mugabe. There's no excuse for his wanton and stubborn aggression, no mater how badly regular folks were treated 1000 years ago.

Fuck all that, though; Why am I going?

Well, since the Portuguese destroyed the local civilisation before I got to find out shit about it, and since Rhodes' Southern Africa Company finished the job, I'd love to be able to go and see a culture I have learned loads about without having really learned anything.


So aye.
Zimbabwe, so I can see what it was like.


_______


Refreshed the thread here....


some tribal native

What do you mean by native? Surely most folks were natives back then?

Having done a bit of travel in some relatively undeveloped parts of the world today where conditions aren't all that different from 1000 years ago

Anywhere in particular?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:48 / 11.06.08
BTW those teeny-weeny suits of armour you see in museums? The ones you were taller than when you were 12? They're not an indicator of relative height. They're made tiny so the armourer could show off his finesse.

You could probably chill a Viking out by offering him a good conditioner. Vikings liked to bleach their hair, but they only had lye to do it with.
 
 
grant
22:07 / 11.06.08
Were there still lions in Europe in 1000? I think there were.

Oh, no - Wikipedia says they vanished in 100. It's the aurochs that was around into the 1600s.

I have no idea how I'd survive, but getting rid of my clothes wouldn't be my first strategy. I imagine the easiest way to get by would be to sell oneself as a curiosity to a local aristocrat/ruler/chief whatever.

Oh, and if I wound up in China, I'd laugh at your backward Great Zimbabweans with my gunpowder and paper money and clock towers and bistros and lyrical poets. Well, my merciful hosts' gunpowder, paper money, clock towers, bistros and poets. And bureaucrats.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
22:11 / 11.06.08
Dude, don't mess with the lye. We eats that goodness we does.
 
 
Char Aina
23:34 / 11.06.08
Interestingly enough, Zimbabwe just means 'stone wall', meaning that while we will never know what the African one was called in it's day - It was named after the ruin that was left - China actually has it's own Great Zimbabwe.

The Chinese one is bigger, obviously.
 
 
Char Aina
00:37 / 12.06.08
I've just realised I didn't say how I would survive.... I guess I'd hope what I know of the local culture would steer me some, and that the drum rhythms I know of wouldn't be that alien.

If I could manage to fit in to the musical landscape well enough I'd hope to be playing for kings. If not, I could always live off the land. as long as I stayed near the Limpopo I'd have food, and as long as I avoided animals, I'd probably be able to stay alive for a long, long time.

Maybe even long enough to take a holiday to Victoria Falls, although of course I'd be asking directions to Mosi o Tunya, or the nearest dialectic equivalent.

If I seemed to be making a roaring success of it all, and if trade was decent, I might try to get some specific purchases ordered from the far east. I'm thinking primarily of technology, but there are a few books would be handy too, from sun tzu to Lao Tse. And of course, I'd have to learn to read them. That would really only be possible if I end up rich enough to afford the time.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
04:08 / 12.06.08
Also, following the aforementioned Terminator rules, I would be a few hundred miles south of where Leif Ericson may have landed sometime near 1000 AD. Maybe I wouldn't be the only caucasian guy running around looking lost.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
04:55 / 12.06.08
Sod Terminator rules, I'd wait 66 years for the Doctor to turn up to deal with the Meddling Monk. His standards for his companions were lower then (Stephen, for fuck's sake!) so I should be able to hitch a lift.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:48 / 12.06.08
The following will have been tattooed on my arm

75% potassium nitrate, 15% softwood charcoal, and 10% sulfur

Gunpowder God, awww yeah.
 
 
one point, oh
10:09 / 12.06.08
Fuck the terminator school of time travel, I'm from the Booster Gold Academy of Time-Travelling Excellence.

Personally I'd be heading to the islamic world for some scientific method appreciation. Me, Ibn al-Haytham and Avicenna sitting about inventin'. Aside from the mathematics I could give them (Newton eat yr heart out) flight, internal combustion engines, electomagnetic induction, a reasonably detailed world map (at least compared to the standards of the day), basic chemistry, particle/atomic/relatavistic physics, antibiotics, anaethesia and cellular biology would probably all be plausible.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:18 / 12.06.08
where is your guitar coming from?

You have to mug a minstrel and steal his lute.

Must I explain everything?
 
 
Mistoffelees
10:29 / 12.06.08
a reasonably detailed world map (at least compared to the standards of the day)

That could probably lead to the conquest of the Americas, Australia and other parts of the world.
 
 
one point, oh
14:03 / 12.06.08
That could probably lead to the conquest of the Americas, Australia and other parts of the world.

The Booster Gold Academy has a strict no refunds policy when it comes to causality.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:17 / 12.06.08
I'd thank myself for having memorised Winnie ile Pu, the Latin version of Winnie the Pooh, with which I could charm everyone. We could have a bit of a sit down. I'd get respect for knowing Latin and I might be supposed to be talking in prophecies. Although I imagine people in those days were just as good at spotting a buster as they are today.
 
 
luminocity
15:46 / 12.06.08
So, not very good?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:05 / 12.06.08
That could probably lead to the conquest of the Americas, Australia and other parts of the world.

Not if my "Don't ever trust any whitey except me" command sinks in. Future Europeans will find the American coastal lands very...uninhabitable. Early colonies will succumb to unknown continental diseases, symptoms of which will include arrows in the back and a crushed skull.
 
 
Bastard Tweed
18:30 / 12.06.08
Brief-lived Heresiarch.


'Nuff said.
 
  
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