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Poverty in the UK

 
  

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Fist Fun
09:53 / 11.06.08
The idea of poverty in the UK has come up a few times in recent threads. It is also getting a fair bit of news coverage at the moment.

My take on this is that the UK is a fantastically rich country where everyone has a minimum income enough to provide for all basics, access to free education, health and social housing if required. Unemployment has been consistently low.

While it is true that some households live in relative poverty (60% of the median income) I don't think that is necessarily a problem. If everyone is guaranteed to have enough for all the basics to live a decent life then I don't think they can really say they are in poverty.

I say from personal experience as well. I grew up in a single parent family, on a council estate, during a time of mass unemployment, where benefits were the sole income. It was alright. We had everything we needed and I would never compare that to poverty in other countries where food, housing, water supplies, education, health care are not guaranteed.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
15:07 / 11.06.08
According to poverty.org.uk this is the answer you're (not) looking for: In 2005/06, around 13 million people in the UK were living in households below this low income threshold*. This is around a fifth (22%) of the population.

*LIT = 60% of median income.

Furthermore: The number of children living in low income households was 3.8 million in 2005/06. This represents a drop of 0.6 million since 1998/99.
Children are one and a third times more likely to live in low income households as adults.
A half of all lone parents are in low income, two-and-a-half times the rate for couples with children.

Lots more of these facts around the site. However, more germane to the debate you're proposing here, is this section:

Clearly, where both absolute and relative poverty are prevalent, it is absolute poverty which is (by far) the more serious issue. This is the case in much of the third world, where the focus is therefore on fixed income thresholds (typically $1 or $2 a day, on the grounds that this is the minimum needed for mere survival). But in a UK setting, such thresholds have no import: no one in the UK lives on incomes anywhere near this low.

So, logically, either one concludes that there is no absolute poverty in the UK or that a much higher threshold of absolute poverty than $1 or $2 per day should be used.

The view that there is no absolute poverty in the UK is a perfectly valid position to take.


BUT

The view that relative poverty is not important is a perfectly valid position to take - it is just not the view that the authors of this website, along with most other researchers, the EU, the UK government, and politicians of all hues across the political spectrum take. So, for example, the government's target of halving child poverty by 2010 is defined in terms of relative poverty.

The reason that we believe that relative poverty is important is because we believe that no one should live with "resources that are so seriously below those commanded by the average individual or family that they are, in effect, excluded from ordinary living patterns, customs and activities."
 
 
Closed for Business Time
15:19 / 11.06.08
And one for the definition junkies out there (YO!):

Webster's dictionary definition of the word 'poverty' is "the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions".

As income inequality increases the negative, socially caused, effects of relative poverty will likely also increase. Lesser purchasing power means less basic amenities means more crime, more illness (physical and mental), more social exclusion and more bad shit overall.

Now, you might retort, as you in a way have already done, that compared to an Ethiopian single mother with 3 kids, no land, no family, no social network, no work, no food and no money, noone in the UK is living in poverty. However, that's completely besides the point. Compared to Bill Gates we're all poor. So what it comes down to in this debate about poverty in the UK is not absolute levels of poverty, but what the publics feel are acceptable levels of material, cultural and social security, and how people are ranked according to that metric.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:59 / 11.06.08
Thanks for that.
I don't think that any of that means that there is poverty in the UK though. There is not poverty in the UK. I said that above, because there is no poverty in the UK. The UK is a very rich nation, where everybody has everything they need, because it has free markets. If everywhere else could get the hang of things and accept the World Bank's help in getting free markets, they would all be as rich as the UK and there would be no poverty, which there is none of in the UK. I know you have mentioned a load of statistics but I don't think they are true because they say there is poverty in the UK and there is no poverty in the UK, like I just said.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
18:49 / 11.06.08
I spent 9 months living in Crewe...
Nope, no poverty there... I never spent nights in a sleeping bag in my 35 pound-a-week bedsit shivering because I couldn't feed my gaz meter. I never walked the streets looking for loose shrapnel on the ground so I could by 15 Embassy milds. 3 pound/hour let me afford all the best luxuries the UK could offer. I never knew want, never saw any homeless, either. After all, it was the town where Rolls and Bentleys were being built, everyone was well off...
 
 
Fist Fun
20:15 / 11.06.08
Thanks for that Boristown.

So I agree with that you there is no absolute poverty.

After that, once everyone has all basic needs covered, is does relative poverty matter?

"As income inequality increases the negative, socially caused, effects of relative poverty will likely also increase. Lesser purchasing power means less basic amenities means more crime, more illness (physical and mental), more social exclusion and more bad shit overall."

Good point. I'd say it is important is to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to participate fully regardless of income and that everyone has a fair crack at improving their economic position.

So that means access to education, a healthy employment market and stuff like a transport infrastructure available to everyone.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
22:00 / 11.06.08
You know, let's just leave aside the definitional stuff. Let's just focus on one thing you stated in the OP.

"I don't think that is necessarily a problem."

You don't think relative poverty is a problem, yet you're willing to concede that relative poverty is a bad thing. Discuss.










Unfortunately (AHAhahaha) I'm away from my regular internets in the coming 6-7 days, so feel free to whack me about. I'll get me own in eventually.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:59 / 11.06.08
Thanks for that.

So since we agree that there is no absolute poverty we agree that there is absolutely no poverty. So there is absolutely no poverty in the UK. Glad we agree on that.
 
 
Lurid Archive
00:24 / 12.06.08
Haus, you could be a little bit more constructive than that.

So that means access to education, a healthy employment market and stuff like a transport infrastructure available to everyone. - buk

I think it is important to point out that it is perfectly consistent for there to be no absolute poverty and for access to the things you mention to be far from universal, since things like infrastructure are dependent on state provision rather than individual wealth. Since you are saying these things are important, it seems to me that you are implicitly conceding that absolute poverty is not the absolute standard.

Of course, I get that you are wanting to equate "absolute poverty" with lack of access to these services, but you are also conflating the former with levels of income which seems to me to be an equivocation designed to win your point without having to tackle the problem of creating a meritocratic society, for instance. (I don't want to claim meritocracy as a pinnacle of social justice, by the way, merely as an example of the sort of thing most people agree would be a good thing but which is in practice is rather more involved than putting bread on people's tables.)
 
 
Pingle!Pop
07:15 / 12.06.08
... And incidentally, the first thing to come up on a Google search for "absolute poverty uk" is this:

Over five million people live in "absolute poverty" in the UK, according to a report published today.

... The definition of absolute poverty is taken from a 1995 United Nations statement, which said it was "a condition characterised by severe deprivation of basic human needs."

It listed those as a lack of food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and access to benefits.


So yeah, unless you're definining "absolute poverty" in the UK as the amount it costs to stay alive in Ethiopia, which no-one outside the far (libertarian) right does, "there's no absolute poverty in the UK" is rubbish.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:40 / 12.06.08
Thanks for that. It's not true that there is absolute poverty in the UK, because people in the UK have more money than people in Africa, and so they cannot be poor. Also, since we agreed that there is absolutely no poverty in the UK, there can't be any absolute poverty in the UK. I think that the system in the UK works, which is why everyone is well off.
 
 
Fist Fun
08:25 / 12.06.08
Over five million people live in "absolute poverty" in the UK, according to a report published today.

... The definition of absolute poverty is taken from a 1995 United Nations statement, which said it was "a condition characterised by severe deprivation of basic human needs."

It listed those as a lack of food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and access to benefits.


I just find that incredibly unbelievable to the point of absurdity. Are you seriously suggesting that five million people in the UK do not have access to safe drinking water or lack food?

I agree that the definition of absolute poverty would be as above but is anyone seriously suggesting that is the case in the UK for millions of people?

Relative poverty (<60% of median income) fair enough, but absolute poverty as described above?
 
 
Pingle!Pop
09:06 / 12.06.08
It means that five million people do not consistently have access to all the above. Saying you find that hard to believe isn't going to magically make lots of people's lives more bearable.

I'm actually thinking Haus' approach on this might be the best. In case you don't know, Buk, by the way, there's a banning motion proposed due to your wtf thread in the convo. If you believe you have a case to plead in regards to that, it might be worth your looking in the policy.
 
 
Fist Fun
09:25 / 12.06.08
So you seriously believe that five million people in the UK do not consistently have access to :

food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and access to benefits

Which areas in the UK would you say suffer from these problems?

Also just going to edit this. I don't mean this as having a go at you. I don't want to get in to the silly internet arguing stuff.

I get the points about relative poverty but if you are correct that five million people lack such basics as safe water and food in the UK that is a HUGE issue and everything must be done to rectify that... but I just see absolutely no evidence whatsoever for that. People aren't starving or catching diseases from unclean water in the UK.
 
 
Pingle!Pop
09:48 / 12.06.08
Everywhere. Here's the report if you like. Now please stop trying to pretend things don't exist just because they don't match up with how you experience the world.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:48 / 12.06.08
Thanks for that. David Gordon, who coedited the report, says "absolute poverty is not supposed to exist in a country like Britain". I agree with him that absolute poverty does not exist in a country like Britain, just like he says.

I don't believe that the report actually says that, or if it does say that then it is wrong, because there is no poverty in the UK.
 
 
Pingle!Pop
09:51 / 12.06.08
(Incidentally, oops - that's a review of the report. The real one costs eighteen squids. That's a shame.)
 
 
Fist Fun
10:04 / 12.06.08
Look I don't want this to become aggressive or some stupid 'internet battle'. It is a serious issue and I am open minded to whether the way I think things are is right or not.

If you are correct and five million lack the basics of "food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and access to benefits" then that is clearly a huge problem which must be dealt with.

I can't read that report because the link doesn't work and I am completely basing this on my experience of the UK. Like I say I grew up in a single parent family, on benefits, on a council housing estate and we were certainly poor but we lacked none of those things.

I have never heard of any community in the UK that does.

If I'm wrong fair enough, then it is a huge and serious problem, but it just doesn't match anything I have ever seen, experienced or heard about.

What does everyone else think? Does anyone know of any communities in the UK that lack the basics? Do you you all think this 5 million figure is credible?
 
 
Fist Fun
10:04 / 12.06.08
(Incidentally, oops - that's a review of the report. The real one costs eighteen squids. That's a shame.)

So have you read the report?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:26 / 12.06.08
I don't think the report really says that anyone in the UK does not have consistent access to food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education or access to benefits. That would just be stupid.
 
 
&#9632;
12:27 / 12.06.08
Good old academic paywalls. Means checking facts from reports like this are pretty much impossible, but I think the most likely thing is is that no, it is not the case that there are five million people in the UK who are deprived of ALL those things, which is what I think Buk is asking. About a tenth of the whole population starving, without drinking water or anywhere to wash, unable to get healthcare, homeless, uneducated and denied benefits? I think we might have noticed that many.
However, it is highly likely that there are five million who have no access to at least ONE of them, and I think it's fairly surprising it's that low.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:33 / 12.06.08
It's really surprising that it is that high, given that everyone in the UK has all of these needs met all the time. I guess some people are fasting, or don't like washing.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
13:35 / 12.06.08
yes, Buk - the key here probably the word "consistent", meaning some days you have good access to food and some days you don't, and the idea that these 5 million people are missing at least one of these things (food, water, etc) but not all at once.

also might think about the idea of access. if I am eligible for health insurance only if I can afford to take time off work and go sit in some fucking office for three days filling out forms, and I'm already too sick to get there, is that "easy" or "good" access to health care? if I live in a shit neighborhood and the stores are all out of rice due to a food shortage, is that good access to food? if my landlord's a douche and our pipes are all full of lead and trying to complain to the health department might get me evicted, do I have good access to clean water?
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
17:27 / 12.06.08
Buk, if a child can't eat one of three meals a day because his or her parents cannot afford to provide food do you think that child is experiencing poverty?
 
 
Fist Fun
21:18 / 12.06.08
Is it a particularly angelic child?
 
 
Saturn's nod
18:28 / 13.06.08
Blog post about poverty including reference to a story about a newspaper in Switzerland many years ago and their change of attitude towards people suffering extreme poverty.

“Before: The Baseler Zeitung is the largest German-language daily newspaper in Switzerland, a country that at the time of the story denied the existence of poverty in its midst; the newspaper was no different.”

“After: When a full report on the nature of poverty and the lives of the poor was published in the Sunday section of the Baseler Zeitung [in 1972], Swiss citizens were stunned. Very poor families began to be viewed as individuals and as citizens; they started to call on the newspaper to let the many injustices visited on them be publicized. Journalists started to reflect on their practice and its impact on the poorest citizens. This process challenged and changed the very ethic of the newspaper, as it did that of other major Swiss news media.”
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:07 / 17.06.08
Thanks for that.

The UK is a fantastically rich country, thanks to the free market, where anyone can get access to social housing whenever they need it.
 
 
Saturn's nod
08:44 / 17.06.08
I'm assuming (perhaps naively) that Buk is not deliberately trolling for now.

I think it's easy for people who are highly literate and who don't have drug or alcohol dependency problems or mental health difficulties to ignore how much that kind of factor affects people's ability to keep together what privileged people consider the basics of life. Inequalities have a tendency to build on each other: people who are suffering with mental health difficulties, drug dependency, or social exclusion like illiteracy can much more easily end up with chronic physical health problems, inadequate living conditions (for example no hot water or clean/dry housing) and bad nutrition which exacerbate the primary problem. A sense of entitlement, sufficient self esteem, and the social skills to successfully object to situations of injustice should not be assumed to be present in people who are suffering from many of these conditions.

Social skills can be a really big factor as well: the kind that build friendships and maintain supportive family links. If people don't have the skills to make social connections that help them when times are tough, or might have family who are more likely to predate and steal from them than be in a position to help with cash flow, childcare or whatever. If people don't present appropriately with middle class values such as 'clean' 'sociable' 'co-operative' at interviews, benefits/social welfare contacts and so on, they get a worse outcome than people who have the privilege and skills to make the social connections that make that social monkey stuff work. As I see it, these skills build on each other and people fall off that skills ladder all the time due to the kind of factors I've named: drugs, alcohol, mental illness, social difficulties.

Also I think it's worth being aware that the benefits system changes frequently and that people now are not necessarily in the same situation as they were in the eighties/nineties when people who are now adults were children.

Additionally, success in the six year waiting list for social housing is dependent on a person managing to fill in the necessary forms and options to get on the list, or to arrange help for that to be done, and to maintain a postal address, phone or email contact for those six years. How many people with serious problems are able to keep that together? I think probably only the most socially privileged and mentally stable. If you take for granted your ability to get the right form, fill it in correctly, get it handed in to the right place, and maintain stability of residence and contact sufficient to receive the next round of the application from the benefits office then I suggest you probably are ignoring most of the factors that work together to keep people in poverty in developed countries.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:42 / 17.06.08
Curse you for elevating the dialogue!

I think you're absolutely right that, in essence, one has simply not to notice entire groups in order to maintain that there is nobody in the UK without everyday access to housing, food, clean water and so forth. An obvious group are the homeless - one could argue that provisions exist for everyone living rough in the UK, and they are being perverse in not stepping forward to accept them, but to do so one would probably have to perform some real mental gymnatics. Beyond this group, however you have the parlously housed - less visible people in hostels, in bed and breakfasts, on the sofas and floors of friends and family. In many cases, these people are in constant threat of having no residence, and are prevented from seeking social housing by factors you have mentioned above, or simply by the huge waiting lists to receive social housing. To which group we can, if we are feeling liberal, possibly add people in unsuitable social housing, but that's another step...
 
 
Fist Fun
15:19 / 17.06.08
Thanks for that.

People with mental health and addiction problems do have a very tough time. That is obviously really horrible and it must be hard for them to lead normal lives. That is more of a health problem than an economics one.

The UK has,tax payer funded, free at point of use health system. If you are unable to work you can claim benefits which allow you a decent standard of living.

If you compare that to the majority of the population of the world then they don't have access to these things...and yeah I do think in comparison to the majority of the world the UK is hugely privileged and rich.

I'm not saying that everything is amazing and that nobody in the UK suffers mental illness or suffers personal misfortune. I'm saying that if you compare the minimum standard of living to that of most of the world then we are fantastically lucky and rich.

Relative poverty for a single person is defined as an income of less than £108 after tax and housing. I find it absolutely unbelievable that a healthy person, without gambling or mental healthy problems, would not be able to live well on half of that as I am sure most of us have for large periods of our lives.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:29 / 17.06.08
Thanks for that.

Reason why argument above is somehow not relevant to discussion.

That is more of a health problem than an economics one.

Unevidenced statement.

If you are unable to work you can claim benefits which allow you a decent standard of living.

Ignoring of factual evidence.

The UK is a fantastically rich country, thanks to the free market, where anyone can get access to social housing whenever they need it.

Unacknowledged changing of story.

I'm not saying that everything is amazing and that nobody in the UK suffers mental illness or suffers personal misfortune. I'm saying that if you compare the minimum standard of living to that of most of the world then we are fantastically lucky and rich.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
22:36 / 19.06.08
I’ve been lurking this conversation for some time, but I’ve had a bad day and therefore feel that now is as good a time as ever time as ever to weigh in.

Buk, what the fuck are you trying to get at? What concept of ‘universal’ poverty are you arguing about? What is the value of talking about the ‘real’ poverty in a third world country that somehow negates the ‘real’ poverty of a first world country? What are you looking for? What absolute concept of poverty is there? Poverty is surely a relative concept. One is impoverished by comparison to the circumstances in which they are compelled to live. There is much to be had from considering, as Aim by joviality does above, why and how individuals and groups find themselves impoverished. But to simply apply universally some ludicrous value of what ‘poverty’ is, all that is achieved is to diminish the suffering of people in whatever circumstances of impoverishment they find themselves. I see no value in your diminishment of suffering, and would really like you to desist.

All suffering may not be equal, but it is all important.
 
 
Evil Scientist
09:16 / 20.06.08
Relative poverty for a single person is defined as an income of less than £108 after tax and housing. I find it absolutely unbelievable that a healthy person, without gambling or mental healthy problems, would not be able to live well on half of that as I am sure most of us have for large periods of our lives.

Define "well".

Are you including food, energy, insurance, and transport expenses?

Have you taken into account unexpected costs such as damage to property, accidents.

Please site the source of the evidence that most of us have lived on £54 (per week/month/ year?) for large parts of our lives.
 
 
diz
17:55 / 20.06.08
Poverty is surely a relative concept.

I wouldn't agree with that, entirely. Absolute poverty is an inability to get the basic necessities of life, whereas relative poverty is the gap between the poorest members of a society and the wealthiest. However, what we consider to be "the basic necessities of life" do shift over time with rising living standards. Food, water, and shelter are always on the list, but I think that most people would agree that access to basic education, basic health care, and some reasonable level of electrical power can be considered basic necessities of life in 2008, where they wouldn't have been 150 years ago.

In that way, you're right, our concept of absolute poverty isn't really absolute, but it shifts on a much slower scale and is looking at a different question: "Are all basic needs being met?" as opposed to "What share of the overall wealth of society does this person have?" or "How much more money does person X make than person y?"

The questions as I see them are:

1) How are we defining basic necessities? Food, water, clothing, shelter, obviously, but is there anything else on the list?
2) What level of each necessity is to be considered the baseline? At what point do we say that someone has adequate food, or shelter? How healthy does the food have to be before we consider the basic need for food met? What condition does the housing have to be in, and how much square footage per person? Etc etc.
3) Based on that definition, to what degree are basic necessities not being met in the developed world/West/Global North/whatever you want to call it?
4) To what degree, if at all, is relative poverty a contributing factor to absolute poverty?
5) To what degree, if at all, is relative poverty an issue in and of itself, outside of any relationship to the questions above? In other words, to what degree if at all is it a problem that an investment banker makes 20 times the salary of a waitress, if we assume for the sake of argument that the waitress has all basic necessities?
6) To what degree, if at all, are individuals with the means to do so morally obligated to contribute to the alleviation of poverty?
7) Is any such responsibility affected by severity of the poverty on the absolute scale, on the relative scale, by geographical and cultural proximity, etc? If we are obligated to help the poor, are we more obligated to help the poor in our own area than people who are poorer but farther away (like, say, in Africa?), or vice versa?

Personally, I'm inclined to include the following things in any list of basic necessities:

* Food, consistently available to the level that no one is starving to death rates of suffering from nutrient deficiencies are extremely low
* Potable water that's not infested with parasites
* Very basic medical care, particularly things like immunizations
* Reliable sanitation infrastructure
* Clothing that is clean and free of holes
* Shelter that provides protection from the elements
* Education to the degree that literacy and basic arithmetic are universal
* Access to a reliable electrical grid or generator
* Functional social and political infrastructure that allows for reasonable expectation of personal security. No warlords, no banditry, no rape gangs, etc.

I would argue that most people in the developed world are able to meet those needs on a regular basis. Surely, this is not true for everyone: in the US, the biggest standouts are Appalachia, Cajun and African-American communities in the rural South, indigenous peoples on reservations, and the homeless. Other areas like urban ghettos, areas in the Rust Belt and collapsed farm communities aren't far behind. However, even there, some of those needs are consistently met - warlordism is not a problem in Appalachia, immunizations are widely available, and even poor communities have some form of incredibly craptacular public education available, and so in those respects, the poor parts of the developed world are fabulously wealthy compared to Somalia.

I do think that we do have a responsibility to do something to alleviate those sorts of situations, both our own local situations and more global ones. However, I'm skeptical of the overall efficacy of mid-20th century-style welfare state direct intervention, especially when any unintended side effects are weighed in. My general bias is that it's generally better to do nothing than to do the wrong thing.

Overall, I think the evidence is pretty strong at this point that the most effective way to take a community out of poverty is to enhance their ability to participate in the wealth-generating machine that is global capitalism. That generally means lowering trade barriers. It also means developing solid infrastructure, including an educational system that provides useful skills and knowledge, reliable and efficent transportation networks, a judiciary that is relatively low-corruption and has enough teeth to enforce contracts and things like that, and basic financial accountability and regulation and a stable currency, and those are areas where state funding and intervention is both desirable and necessary. Access to basic medical care and reproductive control is also important.

I don't think it's effective in most cases, most of the time, for government to flat-out guarantee that these basic standards are being met, and I don't think government agencies in general actually administrate many of these sorts of things well, nor am I a big Keynesian.

Also, while I recognize that income inequality in and of itself does cause social tensions and other issues, I don't think that that reality outweighs the benefits of freer markets. In principle, I don't think the fact that an individual CEO makes many times the amount of money that the janitor who works in the same building makes is an injustice in and of itself, or a problem that needs remedying, unless the janitor is consistently unable to meet basic needs. I do think that some people's contributions are more valuable than others', I think that the market values those different contributions accurately more often than not, and I think that income inequality does incentivize individual achievement in a way that's beneficial to society overall.

Where it becomes an issue for me is the difference in opportunity between the janitor's kids and the CEO's kids. Obviously, we are clever monkeys and we will always look for and find ways to provide advantages to our genetic offspring, and that provides incentives, too, to be frank. Someone may be willing to do something which provides a long-term benefit at the expense of a short-term sacrifice in the interests of providing an advantage to their children. This happens a lot with successful immigrant families, where the first generation works insanely long hours or opens a business and devotes considerable resources to it, often without seeing rewards proportional to their effort within their own lifetimes, because they're motivated by providing more opportunities for their kids, and the net effect of that tends to be a successful small business in the community.

I also think we do want to have realistic expectations of our ability to narrow the opportunity gap, and we should acknowledge that it's a multigenerational process. We should be looking at the opportunity gap on a scale of three to four generations.

All that said, it's in everyone's best interests to make sure that everyone is a stakeholder and that there's as high a degree of class fluidity as possible, and government can have a role in levelling the playing field, but usually not by the direct redistribution of wealth.

IMHO, of course.
 
 
Not in the Face
07:13 / 02.07.08
Evil Scientist: Please site the source of the evidence that most of us have lived on £54 (per week/month/ year?) for large parts of our lives.

Today's research from Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which actually went and asked people rather than taking government calculations at face value found that;

A single person without children needs to spend £158 a week, and a couple with two children £370 a week, not including rent or mortgage.

To afford this budget on top of rent on a modest council home, the single person would need to earn £13,400 a year before tax and the couple with two children £26,800.
For families with no adult working, state benefits provide for less than half the minimum budget for single people and around two-thirds for those with children. The basic state pension provides a retired couple with about three-quarters of the minimum, but if they claim the means-tested Pension Credit their income is topped up to just above the minimum income standard.

The minimum income is above the official “poverty line” of 60% median income, for nearly all household groups. This shows that almost everybody classified as being in poverty has income too low to pay for a standard of living regarded as “adequate” by all members of the public who took part in this research.
(emphasis mine)

http://www.jrf.org.uk/pressroom/releases/010708.asp
 
  

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