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Dungeons and Dragons 4.0

 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
02:58 / 11.06.08
Anyone play the new rules system? I just played the other night for 12 hours straight. Then again this afternoon for another 4. It's wonderfully delightful and incredibly easy to jump into. Wizards is definitely trying to appeal to a larger audience.

It's fast, fun and freakin' awesome. Anyone else experience the greatness yet?
 
 
Katherine
11:14 / 13.06.08
I played it at the UK launch in the London Dungeons, it does play well. It is very easy to jump into especially for younger players which is good, most of the complaints I have heard come from the players who favoured magic users in 3.5.

For me it is so far better balanced so in higher levels the magic users don't over rule everything, plus magic items are not the be all and end all which they can become in some 3.5 games I have played.
 
 
grant
13:24 / 13.06.08
How does it work?
 
 
Axolotl
14:42 / 13.06.08
I've heard it's pretty much designed around miniature play, is that correct?

I mean it's fine if it is, though it seems to be a way of squeezing more cash out of the fans à la Games Workshop.
 
 
Katherine
17:36 / 13.06.08
No, you can play without minis, they recommend them as they are easier than keeping things straight in your head but I have always played with groups who use minis (or squares of paper) and mat for fights so it's no big thing for me. I guess groups who have played without will continue to do so, 3.5 recommended minis as well but again not in a heavy way.

The games is still like the 3.5 D&D only it has been streamlined to make it easier to play straight off the bat, the skills have been put together to have fewer skill choices, such as Acrobatics including riding, jump, tumble and balance. This means that you don't necessarily seem to get 'specialised' characters which may fail anything which isn't their strong point. Anything Arcana based such as history arcana or spellcraft are under one skill arcana and so on.

Nice thing for most characters is the choice on the saves, reflex you have a choice between which ever is the highest of the Dex and the Int ability mod to use rather than just being struck with using the Dex. Will save is a choice between Wis or Cha which can be very nice for the Rogue, mind you the choce of Str or Con for the Fort is nice for them too. (Yes I like playing Rogues).

I like the clarification on 'bloodied', if you get to half hitpoints anything can see you have been hit for alot of damage and well act accordingly, this is good for clerics as you can now clearly see your fighters have been hit.

On the 'ohh shiny' note, they have standardised the artwork so it is all really good, rather than the usual D&D some good and most bad. It is also in my opinion possible to play this new game by only buying one PHB and one Monster Manuel for a group.

The only hardsell I note is the mentions of other races, classes and etc which will be in future volumes of the PHB or DMG or MM. But I can deal with that, they have to make cash and some will buy all of it like with 3 and 3.5, others will make do with the three first books.
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
18:59 / 13.06.08
Yeah, I'm so in love with the skill system. So many times my players would stray away from fun skills like knowledge in favor of more utilitarian skills. Plus having all rouge skills under one Thievery skill makes me gooey. I hated having to use all my skill points just so I can disable traps, pick locks and steal.

AC works like reflex as well, if you wear light or no armor you have a choice to pick your Int or Dex modifier in addition to your armor's bonus, so casters have a much better chance to hold their own against a few hits.

They've also partitioned classes into four categories, Striker, Defender, Controller and Leader. Strikers are rouges, rangers, and warlocks (uses curses to increase direct damage magic attacks). Defenders are paladins and fighters. Controller is wizard. Leaders are clerics and warlords. The cleric got a meaty upgrade, some of her powers allow you to strike an enemy with direct damage and heal an ally in range. Warlords are tacticians and General types who inspire allies to make extra attacks or spend healing surges.

The've also added "Powers" which work similar to spells. Every class gets 2 at-will powers that can be used as many times as they want as a standard action (magic missile, cleave, basic light damage attacks). Then as you level you gain encounter powers which are slightly more powerful than at-will. They can only be used once per encounter (defined as more or less one room or group of enemies). Once everyone's dead PCs can take a five minute rest to recharge their encounter powers and spend healing surges to regain lost hit points. Then there's the daily powers which are the most powerful and can only be used again once you've taken a six-hour rest (or four-hour trance as with Eladrin).

The powers increase as players gain levels so no longer will you have useless spells and powers once you've reached epic levels.

They've also added "Paragon" and "Epic" paths, which allow the player to customize their character to fit more along their style. Wizards can choose to become a blood mage once they've reached level 11 allowing them to use their own health to increase the power of their spells. at 21st level more options open up.

I think my favorite part about this whole new rule set is that now a 1st level PC can actually hold their own in a fight. I no longer have to give them really stupid exterminator missions killing rats in a basement. The first battle I gave the PCs a whole pyramid filled with Orcs then an epic chase battle where the PCs stole some riding tigers and were subsequently chased by a horde of goblin minions riding tigers.
 
 
Katherine
05:16 / 14.06.08
Yes, the 1st level wizard can no longer be killed by a domestic cat... not sure if that's a plus or not. I jest, it is good that they have improved the hit points from the off as well.
 
 
Evil Scientist
06:53 / 14.06.08
I played it at the UK launch in the London Dungeons, it does play well.

You > Me
 
 
unbecoming
07:20 / 14.06.08
I haven't seen the books yet but i have to say that judging by the info above the system sounds really good.

It's good to hear that the new version is a substantial alteration to the game dynamics. It always bothered me that 3.5 was a fairly pointless rework as little was really changed.

I have heard that the tone and mechanics of the game are aimed at making it palatable to the mmorpg generation- do you think this is true?

Also am i right in thinking that the Bard class does not exist?

Also, what of grapple, what of grapple?!
 
 
Katherine
13:32 / 14.06.08
You > Me

Really? I Should have posted it up before on the boards we could have tried to organise a barbe-D&D.

I doubt you were on my table, apart from the person I went with we had a chap with his younger brother and friend. It was good to see the 4th edition being more easily accessible to new players (both the younger boys had only been playing for 2 months).
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
21:57 / 14.06.08
I have heard that the tone and mechanics of the game are aimed at making it palatable to the mmorpg generation- do you think this is true?

At first glance it does look like that, especially with the addition of powers. Once you begin playing, however, you realize it's anything but. The rules fade into the background allowing you to focus more on action, role playing and fun. Less time is used contemplating how you're going to have enough spells to finish the dungeon and more time spent on how you are going to kill this horde of orcs right now.

That being said, it does seem that wizards is catering towards a diabloesque system, the new way they describe the D&D world in particular. The core world is described as being a world of darkness with points of light. The light being small villages and towns, no longer are there any glourious empires or great kingdoms expanding the tundra. As adventurers your job is to travel into the darkness where commoners fear to tread.

Which, personally, I love. As a DM it allows me to just throw whatever I want into the mixture allowing me to focus more on why these monsters are raiding the settlement and not have to worry about the political implications of neighboring nation-states.
Of course nothing is stopping you from making politically based campaigns, the rule book is just geared towards the fact that the human empire has fallen and all the 'civilized' races are in a dark age.



Also am i right in thinking that the Bard class does not exist?

As it stands now, yes. However, WotC plans on releasing two more player handbooks (ugh 80 more dollars) where all the left out races and classes will be implemented along with new and exciting material.

Also, what of grapple, what of grapple?!

I believe grapple has been renamed "Grab." It lets you use your Str mod. against the targets Reflex. If you hit the enemy is immobilized until it escapes or you end the grab.
Then if you want to move a grabbed target you make a Str vs. Fortitude. On a hit you can move up to half your speed and pull the grabbed target with you.


The first adventure I ran with the new rule set ended up lasting a good 12 hours. We started playing at 2 am then suddenly it was 2pm and no one knew how it lasted so long. It's quite immersive and oh so easy to jump right in. All my players had never played D&D before but we were running smoothly after a steady hour of a basic tutorial adventure.
 
 
Katherine
09:05 / 16.06.08
The core world is described as being a world of darkness with points of light. The light being small villages and towns, no longer are there any glourious empires or great kingdoms expanding the tundra. As adventurers your job is to travel into the darkness where commoners fear to tread.

Yes, it makes for more personalisation for each group and also a good reason for adventuring - travelling and exploring the great unknown or as they said on old maps 'Here be Dragons'.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:25 / 16.06.08
Really? I Should have posted it up before on the boards we could have tried to organise a barbe-D&D.

Sorry, Barbe-shorthanding how cool I thought the idea of attending a D&D session at the London Dungeons was.

> = Greater than.
 
 
Katherine
10:42 / 16.06.08
Ah sorry, I'm not the greatest at recognising these things.

It was very cool, they had small table lights so you could just make out your dice rolls but other than that very atmospheric lighting (ie dim and murky) and it made the sounds tape of the dungeons go spookly well with the train thundering overhead. Great fun, I'm going to keep an eye out as they periodically use the London Dungeons for this type of thing.
 
  
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