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Glory Days

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
22:31 / 24.05.08
Broadly, I think I'd probably go for (a). It doesn't particularly matter whether I believe in the absolute existence of your pantheon, or Gypsy Lantern's pantheon or whoever else's. What matters is that somebody believes in them, and therefore the discussion of same will need to take into account that the relationship of the participants in any discussion of any given divinities will vary, and that, starting from that basis, there are both conceptual and practical routes to go down which take that into account.

Having said which, I am at times surprised that the line between what it is sensible to accept for the purposes of a discussion - gods, servitors, astral travel - and what it is not - psychic vampirism, otherkin - seems so clearly delineated. However, I am aware that I have aesthetic criteria which inform my own reactions.

Oh, and, Life Critic, I have no interest in indulging your desire to engineer or perpetuate conflicts in which you can be the good guy by becoming offended on others' behalf. If you really have to share your opinion on this, please do it in a useful fashion.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:06 / 24.05.08
Oh, I'm sorry--reading back over my post, I realise now that it comes off as if I was plonking you in camp b) when your elucidation upthread was much more a-flavoured. Not my intention.
 
 
HCE
01:11 / 25.05.08
I could, if I wanted to, rip into a lot of the books, films, etc that are being discussed, in full-on Leavis attack-dog mode.

I don't know what Haus meant when he wrote it, but I took him to mean that people were easily pleased by the contentless posts, rather than easily pleased by the comics, etc. themselves.

There are a few different things that can happen: whether you like a piece or hate it, you can make boring comments about it (This rules! This sucks!) or you can make interesting and useful comments about it (Did you notice the way the writers did X? Didn't the whole thing fall apart when they tried to do Y?).

My favorite writing in film and TV was Flyboy going on about The Wire, of which he is a huge fan. Regrettably I had to stop reading because of spoilers, and now that I'm finished with the series nobody I'd want to talk to about that show is still willing to give this place their best efforts, if indeed there's anybody left at all.
 
 
Baroness von Lenska
07:01 / 25.05.08
Well, of course a lot of the content in films/books/comics/music is tied in with what's current and what's fresh and what's being "talked about," but plenty of potential exists for in depth discussions focused more on the mediums themselves, recurring themes, styles, moods, periods within the mediums etc. There just doesn't seem to be much interest in that sort of thing outside of Books, which is slowly turning into the Great Grinding Halt of Molassesland. Maybe because there's just so much of it elsewhere on the 'net?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:26 / 25.05.08
I don't know what Haus meant when he wrote it, but I took him to mean that people were easily pleased by the contentless posts, rather than easily pleased by the comics, etc. themselves.

Yeah, I see this now. On the other hand, over in Books etc, looking at the 'What books 2008' thread, plus 'Jonathan Strange' and 'Heart of Darkness', there seems to be quite a lot of serious discussion/people questioning eachother's points and expanding on them, and so on and so forth.

To take a slight side-track, but I'd quite like to adress this.

Perhaps AAR could go on again about the problems with gender studies people painting "the Bard" as a bad old man.

Oh, you mean when, as a coda to less scatterbrained post, I said -

Another thing the Cultural Studies tradition brings with it is a distressing tendency for people to know an awful lot about Cultural Studies but not very much about the texts they're applying CS to - this can lead to judging Shakespeare's e.g. 'gender politics' by our own standards, which will of course make him look rather a bad lad, as opposed to the standards of his day, doing which will show him up as someone who took a great leap forward as far as women and black people in literature are concerned.?

I appreciate that 'bad lad' there is, well, bullshit, but I don't think I ever specifically tried to do down 'gender studies people' qua gender studies, which as most of us are aware is a pretty fucking important discipline, and one on which I rely for a lot of information and thinking I wouldn't otherwise have access to.

I was talking about specific people applying a critical discourse very rigidly in a way that didn't take account of the text's real context (i.e. the lot of women in Shakespeare being rather more humane than in most other 16th/17th centruy drama), or of many of the subtleties and complexities therein, and I don't see much of a problem with my complaining about that.

I mean, I could have done what just about everyone else I was studying Shakespeare with at the time of that thread did, which was to hand in a set of very good essays about gender and race but which might as well have been about Eastenders. That, though, would assuredly have counted as 'easily pleased'. Surely one of the things that comes of 'not being easily pleased' (if that's still a concern for this thread) is that sometimes one's displeasure is not very well articulated?
 
 
grant
02:08 / 26.05.08
Regrettably I had to stop reading because of spoilers, and now that I'm finished with the series nobody I'd want to talk to about that show is still willing to give this place their best efforts, if indeed there's anybody left at all.

I just started Season 2. In fact, the first episode is playing as I write this - a lady with a flashlight is crawling around a bunch of containers at the docks, I think.

Don't tell me what happens next. Oh, she sees an arm.

It's a good show.

I won't catch up for a while.
 
 
HCE
04:43 / 26.05.08
Don't worry, my lip is zipped until you say speak.
 
 
grant
15:23 / 26.05.08
It is Barbelith that made me see who that arm was connected to.

You awful, awful people.
 
 
Char Aina
16:54 / 26.05.08
Oh, and, Life Critic, I have no interest in indulging your desire to engineer or perpetuate conflicts in which you can be the good guy by becoming offended on others' behalf. If you really have to share your opinion on this, please do it in a useful fashion.


And I have no desire to engineer or perpetuate conflict. I wasn't offended on anyone's behalf, either. There is no angle here. As regards my opinion, you have made it clear you feel it matters very little. I have no desire to play this game with you.
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:38 / 26.05.08
Watching Haus and Mordant argue feels like watching Superman and Wonder-Woman fight.

IMHO, the thing about Barbelith now seeming to be not as much as it used to be, debate quality-wise, is the inevitability of repetition. After a while, it seems, we are all doomed to see the same argument being played out by various posters over and over again. And, even worse, sometimes such arguments are re-enacted by the same posters, which adds to the annoyance factor. This is understandable, of course. After all, people will be, and should be, pissed off by the same things, if such things are to be repeatedly rubbed to their faces and they (the things) insist on not getting fixed, both in the ´Lith and the Real World.

So, it does get tiresome, yes, but the idea that quality of discourse in Barbelith has dropped over the years may be an illusion caused by that accumulating grief from such repetition of annoying stuff.

Also, some of the olders posts may not even notice, but quality of posting from many of them has actually quite increased over the years (I've been poking into old threads), thus it would seem for them that the rest of the board is not to "their level" anymore. This is a good thing, actualy

This is my humble, and admitedly optimistic, theory.

[on a side note, Haus, you should stop saying you don´t like being dragged into arguments with everybody else but feels forced to because you just care too much and nobody else will save Barbelith from Barbelith. Considering how readily you jump in, and how you usually open with some snarking, hostility-provoking post*, that argument is losing credibility every time you use it. No offense intended]

* I understand the urge to make some short one-liner that will trump any further debate on the issue with both witts and wisdow, but it usually ends up sounding arrogant and sarcastic, even when it was not meant to be so (and the debate never ends anyway). For the sake of discurse, let´s keep things unpacked. And polite.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:13 / 26.05.08
I wasn't aware that I was fighting. There was a brief misunderstanding, it got cleared up. End of.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:19 / 26.05.08
I said you were "arguing", not "figthing". It was Superman and Wonder-Woman who would be "fighting", but, much like your argument upthread with Haus, they would eventually realize they were on the same side and make peace before the reader could find out who would really win the fight, and join forces to battle the real evil behind it all.

It's a perfect metaphor any way you look at it.

[Also, of course Flash is faster]
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:30 / 26.05.08
wut
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:40 / 26.05.08
Perhaps it would be wise to point out the Superman/Wonder-Woman comparison was meant strictly as a little joke, and it should not be considered as to imply anything other than what has been writen, both regarding this argument and the people the comparison was made about, in any way, sense, or fashion. And that none of you should waste more than five seconds of your lives thinking about it. I sure didn't.

Just to be clear.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:50 / 26.05.08
If you want to be credible when you claim not to mean offence, do not be offensive. How on Earth is this a difficult concept?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:16 / 26.05.08
LC raises some interesting questions, I think. But they're just questions, right? What are the answers?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:20 / 26.05.08
It's arguably no good running a pub in Fife, and then committing suicide, like that guy from Big Country did.
 
 
Dead Megatron
22:40 / 26.05.08
If you want to be credible when you claim not to mean offence (sic), do not be offensive.

Well, the unpacked comment would be "I don't aim at offending you per se, but I can live with it happening, because I believe you need to be told that right now", but I thought it would sound too hostile and snide to say so in so many words at the time, which would reduce the chances of my message getting across. Unfortunately, it seems the more polite and shorter version - "no offense"- was enough to cause said effect.

Anyway, I hope you get the point regardless.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
01:53 / 27.05.08
What was the first ban that anyone can remember? I've been here a while, but I can't remember much past Shadowsax and the then-oncoming trend of incredibly long banning threads. I can remember the incarnation of the board before this one, and the one before that, but nothing about anyone being forced to leave.
 
 
Slim
02:35 / 27.05.08
You weren't around for the Great Banning of '99? It was a humdinger.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
04:59 / 27.05.08
of·fence Audio Help (ə-fěns') Pronunciation Key
n. Chiefly British
Variant of offense.


Hope this helps.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:11 / 27.05.08
You know, on the not seeking to give offence front. Speaking purely personally I tend to think that seeking to put others down by highlighting errors of spelling or indeed typing is a losing play, but if one thinks otherwise it might be best to try to do it with actual errors.

As it is, I don't see myself in your attempt to correct my ways. I fear therefore that it was not terribly useful to me, nor does it consequently seem hugely needful. Perhaps you could tell me where, exactly, I have said that I don´t like being dragged into arguments with everybody else but feels (sic) forced to because [I] just care too much and nobody else will save Barbelith from Barbelith?
 
 
Dead Megatron
07:21 / 27.05.08
Anyway, I hope you get the point regardless.

It seems my hopes were in vain. Oh, well.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:33 / 27.05.08
That's not an answer, old chap. Failed attempts to look clever at the expense of others aside, you have made a contention which I do not believe is correct. To wit, you say that I am claiming that I don´t like being dragged into arguments with everybody else but feels (sic) forced to because [I] just care too much and nobody else will save Barbelith from Barbelith, and that this claim is at odds with your interpretation of my behaviour. I do not believe this to be the case. I am asking you to evidence this claim. If you cannot do this, then I have to question the reliability of your analysis.
 
 
Char Aina
15:04 / 27.05.08
this post deleted
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:14 / 27.05.08
this post also deleted - ze shouldn't say that sort of thing, should ze?
 
 
iamus
16:57 / 27.05.08
Ah. Now this is more like the glory days.


Mem-o-reeees
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:10 / 27.05.08
this post reheated.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
17:51 / 27.05.08
this post depleted all right enough of that.

Actually, now that I think on it, I believe RRM was the first I can remember being forced out...you see, little ones, back then we had proper trolls, people who had only a passing contact with reality. Jesus! Everything was of a higher standard back then, eh?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:59 / 27.05.08
But did any of the lizard-pedophile sniffers actually get banned back in their heyday? I don't know that they did. Some of the suits woke up, trolled a bit and got burned more recently, but I think the initial frenzy went unreprimanded.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:24 / 27.05.08
This post "me"-bleated.

That's right, Mordant - and, actually, I'm not at all sure any of the returnees were banned, either. Banning was not really a tool we had any sense that it was appropriate to use for a very long time - if you didn't make physical threats against other people on the board, you were pretty much golden, and even then there had to be some sort of aggravating factor, really. The idea that people should be actually banned for things that merely made the place less pleasant to inhabit and encouraged other people also to behave unpleasantly was pretty late in the day. I think modzero was the first person banned (repeatedly - him, his imaginary girlfriend, a couple of imaginary friends who just happened to be passing and wanted to mention that he was a cool guy, and so on) for what we might these days identify as simple, non-aggravated harassment - trying to wear people down with endless PMs and board stalkeration so that they would leave the place to him. The Fetch then ushered in something of a new age by making it conceivable that people could be banned for making defamatory statements against people who were not actually users of the board.

Regrettably, the discursive (and polymorphous) nature of the board meant that discussions about banning ended up being more enervating, sometimes, than the people whose banning was under discussion, and a bunch of people were so exhausted by that process that they dropped off. Also regrettably, the logistical difficulties of banning mean that people can behave badly for a long time before it even becomes an issue, by which time there behaviour is often grandfathered (or grandmothered).
 
 
grant
18:39 / 27.05.08
I *think* some of the Technoccult people were banned because they'd stated an intention to "bring down the board" or something.

At that point, however, there were still Myrmidons and an Archon and not as much of a concern with transparency or distributed powers.
 
 
Char Aina
19:09 / 27.05.08
this post deleted
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:38 / 27.05.08
Feels like a little bit of history deleting...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:34 / 27.05.08
First I remember on Barbelith - as opposed to the Nexus - was a kid called something like 100%. Not sure I can remember what caused him to do it, but he got the boot for going to the 2000AD forum, of all places, and attempting to get members there to start a board war with us here, after somebody here took issue with one of his posts. Entertainingly, he was met with a chorus of "give a shit?"s.
 
  

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