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20th Century's Best Characters

 
  

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Alex's Grandma
19:05 / 01.09.06
While all that's true, I still like Uncle Tom from 'Uncle Tom's Cabin.' He never complained, did he? He just got on with it.
 
 
Jackie Susann
20:43 / 01.09.06
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but who the fuck is the Dog of Tears?

And where is Michael Corleone? Norma Desmond? Snake Pliskin? I know it is kinda redundant to get all 'where is...?' on lists like this (since it's the whole point of them) but, come on - I mean, someone said Superman but shit yeah fuck this fiction = books thing.

(Yes, I know Godfather was a book first but its obv Al Pacino Michael who makes the list, over the texty version.)
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
22:07 / 01.09.06
Oh, never mind Corleone, where's John Carter? Where's Herbert West? Sheesh, these people have no taste.
 
 
Jackie Susann
00:13 / 02.09.06
You prob. gonna hate me for this, but who's John Carter? Is that Michael Caine's character in Get Carter? There's no way he wins over Michael.
 
 
matthew.
04:41 / 02.09.06
He rules the shit out of Mars and has influenced tons and tons of writers afterwards.
 
 
matthew.
04:45 / 02.09.06
And where's Randall Flagg on this list?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:31 / 02.09.06
elijah- Kurtz is at number 26.

Does Cthulhu count? Cos where's that tentacled mother, eh?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:20 / 02.09.06
Rob Fleming from 'High Fidelity'?

He's a good bloke, Rob - he's almost a little bit like you and me. Unless you're a girl.

Can we all take a second to consider, again, just what a clever title for a novel that is?

Because on the one hand it's about music, but on the other it's about relationships, and how sometimes they can get confused.

I'm actually familar enough with Nick Hornby's movements in the social world that it wouldn't be too hard for me to track him down, and then corner him.

'Hornby,' I would say 'Are you still conscious?'

'I've got a family, mate ... Don't kill me.'

'Hornby, I am not your mate.'

'But what about my family?'

'Hornby, they're just going to have to take their chances, I'm afraid ...'
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:28 / 02.09.06
Oh fuck yes, AG, get the fucker. My "friend" recently started reading High Fidelity. I asked him if he found it slightly misogynistic, or very.

"Well, it's a guy talking about his ex-girlfriends, it's going to be misogynistic, isn't it?"

No? Not really, "friend"? I can talk about my ex without being misogynistic, what's so hard about it?

But I suppose these questions will go unanswered, and I sigh, I sigh.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:03 / 02.09.06
Well, in the Hornmeisters's defense, he doesn't hate women, he actually really loves them, it's just that they're so weird and so incomprehensible that they may as well have been beamed down from Mars. *They,* the enemy, don't seem to understand about music, or anything.

(Hornby might well argue that his borderline disastrous views about what *they* get up to are in some sense satirical, but he wouldn't really mean it. He's written hundreds and hundreds of pages of this stuff - there is, I fear, quite clearly a certain amount of emotional investment involved. He's probably not a bad bloke, but I would like to have the stones to clip him, all the same.)
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
21:35 / 02.09.06
"Rosie-the-simultaneous-orgasm-woman" was certainly a memorable character.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:03 / 02.09.06
I have to say, I enjoyed High Fidelity. But I think at the time I read it I was exactly the kind of person it was aimed at.

Looking back, I doubt I'd pick it up again. Unless I was feeling particularly vengeful.

To be honest, in the "just-been-dumped" headspace, Ruby And The Stone-Age Diet by Martin Millar is much, much better. And much, much less misogynistic.

Speaking of which, I'm not surprised Ruby from that book's not in the list... cos, let's face it, who the fuck actually reads Martin Millar?

But she should be.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:09 / 02.09.06
But I think at the time I read it I was exactly the kind of person it was aimed at.

I know what you mean. Personally, that week the body-count was truly appalling ...
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
10:24 / 03.09.06
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but who the fuck is the Dog of Tears?

He's a dog that licks peoples' tears. Honestly.
 
 
astrojax69
22:16 / 03.09.06
grenouille, from suskind's 'perfume' one of the all time great characterisations, i my humble opinion. he is the personification of the sense of smell. simply wondrous!

and slothrop, as mentioned above. and sal paradise. really.

and hamsun's character's in 'hunger' and 'mysteries' are astounding. and where is thomas mann's 'death in venice'? where is tolkein, kerouac, and hesse's magister from glass bead game, huh?

what a shite list, indeed... none of these and harry potter. well, that says something.
 
 
Jackie Susann
22:36 / 03.09.06
Let me rephrase my question, then: What's so great about the tear-licking dog?
 
 
Tom Coates
12:08 / 05.09.06
I am unclear. Apparently the dog comes from this novel: Blindness which - I have to say - sounds pretty awesome.
 
 
Tom Coates
12:09 / 05.09.06
Which reminds me, if anyone on the board knows anything seriously useful about the Dog of Tears, then they may as well go and add the page to Wikipedia, which at the moment knows nothing about it
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:14 / 05.09.06
That certainly does sound interesting. And dogs are often my favourite characters in books, so I may even end up agreeing on this one if I read the thing.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:07 / 05.09.06
Harry Potter is a necessary inclusion in the list as he rates as the best monodimensional character in existence ever.

Tragic ommisions include Cal Mooney from Weaveworld (Clive Barker) and Daisy Love from Nymphomation (Jeff Noon)
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
18:49 / 05.09.06
Read it, Tom; you won't regret it.

I don't remember the Dog of Tears now, but it returns in a sort of sequel, Seeing, just for a single heartbreaking scene.

Saramago just likes dogs: his oeuvre is full of them, and he writes them very well.

But if they really wanted to include a Saramago character in the list, surely they could have chosen instead Blimunda, his Jesus Christ version, his Ricardo Reis (although he's technically a Fernando Pessoa creation) or Mr. José.
 
 
MintyFresh
20:24 / 14.09.06
Gatsby is one of my favorite books, but I really cannot imagine why Jay Gatsby is at the top of this list.
And not a single mention of Lord of the Rings? You'd think Gandalf would at least get an honorable mention or something.
But! Grendel! Atticus Finch! The Little Prince!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
08:20 / 15.09.06
He didn't get mentioned perhaps because

a) his name is from an ancient Icelandic poem called Voluspo. Gandalf = Gand Alf = Magic Elf. He has lots of friends, most of whom have suffered from their names being stolen by JRR rotter. The whole section goes like this:

9. Then sought the gods | their assembly-seats,
The holy ones, | and council held,
To find who should raise | the race of dwarfs
Out of Brimir's blood | and the legs of Blain.

10. There was Motsognir | the mightiest made
Of all the dwarfs, | and Durin next;
Many a likeness | of men they made,
The dwarfs in the earth, | as Durin said.

11. Nyi and Nithi, | Northri and Suthri,
Austri and Vestri, | Althjof, Dvalin,
Nar and Nain, | Niping, Dain,
Bifur, Bofur, | Bombur, Nori,
An and Onar, | Ai, Mjothvitnir.

12. Vigg and Gandalf) | Vindalf, Thrain,
Thekk and Thorin, | Thror, Vit and Lit,
Nyr and Nyrath,-- | now have I told--
Regin and Rathsvith-- | the list aright.

13. Fili, Kili, | Fundin, Nali,
Heptifili, | Hannar, Sviur,
Frar, Hornbori, | Fræg and Loni,
Aurvang, Jari, | Eikinskjaldi.

14. The race of the dwarfs | in Dvalin's throng
Down to Lofar | the list must I tell;
The rocks they left, | and through wet lands
They sought a home | in the fields of sand.

15. There were Draupnir | and Dolgthrasir,
Hor, Haugspori, | Hlevang, Gloin,
Dori, Ori, | Duf, Andvari,
Skirfir, Virfir, | Skafith, Ai.

16. Alf and Yngvi, | Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalar and Frosti, | Fith and Ginnar;
So for all time | shall the tale be known,
The list of all | the forbears of Lofar.

17. Then from the throng | did three come forth,
From the home of the gods, | the mighty and gracious;
Two without fate | on the land they found,
Ask and Embla, | empty of might.

18. Soul they had not, | sense they had not,
Heat nor motion, | nor goodly hue;
Soul gave Othin, | sense gave Hönir,
Heat gave Lothur | and goodly hue.


You may also have noticed Nuthri, Suthri, Austri and Vestri (sic) in there, representing the points of the compass. Also Durin, Gloin, etc. Why have such a long list of names? Skalds in big herb and drumming trances. It's a mantra.

Moving on:

b) his character is a boring rehash of Merlin.

c) actually, "characters"? In LOTR?
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
09:58 / 15.09.06
Gandalf = Gand Alf = Magic Elf.
Here's a good site for the curious, most of the names (and not just the dwarves) in Voluspa have literal translations, some of which are themselves contested - I believe Yggdrasil is one such. Comparison between the several originals and the manifold translations is a fascinating exercise, some of them opt to translate all the names, some of them translate none, most of them do a mix of both.

Yer got it yet, or wot?

(edit)

c) actually, "characters"? In LOTR?


Galadriel is a well developed character, but you kinda need to put her in the full Silmarillion doomed-war-against-the-gods context. 'course, I'm biased.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
09:15 / 17.09.06
If I had to pick just one character from Lord of the Rings it'd be Smeagol. Or Sam. No...Smeagol.

And whilst I love Holmes he doesn't fit right on that list. He's not a creation of the 20th century despite his publishing history extending into it. And if I had to chose a character from Baskervilles it'd be Doctor John every time.

The inclusion of Marlowe and Spade on the same list to the exclusion of Lord Peter Wimsey strikes me as being a mistake.

And Jeeves over Wooster? Jeeves really only exists as a function of the narrative. Wooster lives and breathes.

The sort of thing that can be quibbled over endlessley but it's one that strikes me as flawed. I suspect if it were a European list it'd be very different, though I like to think there would be a lot from that list too.
 
 
astrojax69
05:16 / 18.09.06
ooh, then of course there's oscar wilde's plays, but is this off the topic?

shall we go bunburying?
 
 
DavidXBrunt
14:22 / 21.09.06
Some wonderful characters in Wildes plays and prose fiction. Sadly none of them were written in after 1900.

But if this were before 1900 then there'd be more than a few in the list, I suspect. The Remarkable Rocket for one.
 
  

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