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wembley can change in 28 days
08:30 / 03.12.02
Loomis: Timothy Findley is the saving grace of Canadian literature. Tiff, how we love thee, our alternative to Margaret Atwood!
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:38 / 03.12.02
Evolving the Alien By Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen. Only half way through so far and they haven't done much except talk about how we might probably define life too distinctly by comparing it with ourselves, and how a couple of other scientists who wrote a long book about how there wouldn't be life elsewhere in the universe for this precise reason were WRONG WRONG WRONG!!

The chapters are broken up by reviews of sci-fi books, sometimes incorrect, which aren't necessarily anything to do with what they are talking about at the time, and only sometimes talk about the alien life in the book. Each chapter is introduced with a short fictional view of earth from the p.o.v. of an alien tour guide. Pickover has a lot to answer for.
 
 
bjacques
19:57 / 03.12.02
Finished Master & Margarita and have just ordered the Polish TV miniseries (1989, with English subtitles). Someone on Amazon compared Behemoth and Koroviev to John Travolta and Samuel L. Jackson, so I couldn't resist. Looking forward to Xmas viewing.

Got the new Idler while also trying to get through Robert Joxe's "Empire of Disorder" (at least it's an easier read than Negri & Hardt's "Empire") AND Xaviera Hollander's memoir about her parents. It's actually pretty good.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:01 / 04.12.02
Having gone through far too much fiction recently, I've decided it's time to work the little grey cells. So, on the go currently are two titles (one of which has been sitting here for months waiting to be read).

Witchcraft and Magic in Europe: the Middle Ages, which so far is excellent - it's a collection of three essays ('Medieval Magic: Definitions, Beliefs, Practices', 'Trolldomr in Early Medieval Scandinavia' and 'The Medieval Church and State on Superstition, Magic and Witchcraft') that's informative without being dull, academic without being too dry. A bit narked that the Witch trials are covered in another volume - money's tight and they're not cheap - but I'm looking forwards to tackling the .. Biblical and Pagan Societies next. Just seen a review in this month's Fortean Times of Witchcraft in Europe, 69 original manuscripts from between 400AD and 1700 AD, detailing the "description or prosecution of witchcraft... the insanities openly espoused by many of the Church's greatest thinkers and ... the eagerness with which the tests and tortures were applied and described", so it looks like that'll be next on the list. I notice that a number of CBBS posters have just engaged in a 'witchcraft is evil' shouting match. Bring it on...

I Wish I'd Made You Angry Earlier: Essays on Science, Scientists and Humanity by Max Perutz, a collection of Perutz' writings from a number of sources (book reviews, for the main part, but book reviews that are more about the subject covered in them than the books themselves). I've only gone through the first few so far, dealing with figures from history who've contributed - inadvertently, in most cases - to the numbers of dead in wars. Oppenheimer I knew about, but people like Leo Szilard and Lise Meitner were previously just names without much background. Perutz provides broad overviews of their careers and beliefs in a remarkably fair manner. I've had a flick through the essays towards the back and I've got a feeling that the latter half of the book is going to be waaaaay over my head.

Also got the urge to read A Canticle for Leibowitz again.
 
 
Topper
16:08 / 11.12.02
I wouldn't recommend Lullaby by Palahniuk, and this is from someone who thought Choke was fantastic. I found Lullaby repetitive and unsuccessful, and Palahniuk's style is starting to get in the way of his stories.

All my opinion, of course.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:24 / 11.12.02
Loomis- "How late it was, how late" is FUCKING BRILLIANT.

I've currently gone for (what with being off work and therefore supposed to be taking things easy) Joe Lansdale's "Captains Outrageous"... which I bought ages ago, and never got round to. So far (about 100 pages) very funny, but not quite the nasty edge Lansdale's usually got. The dialogue (it's Hap and Leonard again, and Leonard still gets all the best lines) still rocks, though... just not as much as usual.
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
17:01 / 12.12.02
I usually read a lot of stuff at the same time, and sometimes stop reading a book for weeks before picking it up again.

Right now i'm reading:

Blood Music, by Greg Bear (for the second time this month)

Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, by Thomas de Quincey

Oedipus, the King, by Sophocles (for the University)

and a short-story by H.P. Lovecraft, The Case of Charles Dexter Ward.

Oh, and i'm reading Grant Morrison's The Filth.
 
 
Baz Auckland
03:51 / 13.12.02
Charles Dexter Ward is one of the best of Lovecraft. I'm reading Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" for American history class. So very depressing. The horrible lives of Lithuanian immigrants working for $1.27 a day in the slaughterhouses of Chicago.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:19 / 13.12.02
The Street Of Crocodiles by Bruno Schulz. Depressing surrealism, which probably fits.
 
 
Dr. Valis
22:15 / 13.12.02
Frankenstien by Shelley
Essential Uncanny X-Men by Stan Lee Jack Kirby and friends
Summoning Spirits by Konstantinos

Pretty boring right now.
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
17:46 / 14.12.02
Began reading Oresteia by Aeschylus today - very interesting greek tragedy

Just finished Blood Music (again) and am off looking for Bear's Darwin's Radio
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
23:06 / 14.12.02
Just finished re-reading Mark Simpson's It's A Queer World, 'cause it's great.

And Dorothy L Sayers' Whose Body, and Armistead Maupin's Sure of You 'cause I'm obsessed.

And have been dipping in and out of:

Julia Kristeva - Powers of Horror
George Bataille - Visions of Excess
Rosalind Krauss/Yve-Alain Bois - Formless: A User's Guide
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:07 / 14.12.02
Is anyone up for a Books thread on the Oresteia? It's much better than whatever you are reading right now...
 
 
iconoplast
05:21 / 15.12.02
I'm finishing school in a week (as that alice cooper riff just cycles on endless repeat in my head) and I've promised myself that I will actually and for real this time sit down and read the brothers fucking karamazov already.

Because nobody's spoiled the ending, or told me what it is about it that makes it so good. Whereas when I read Oedipus Rex, I already knew all the good parts.

Though I don't know much about Aeschylus, come to think of it...
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
10:06 / 15.12.02
How can you not know Aeschylus, Iconoplast? He wrote the best of the greek tragedies, and it's sad much of his work has been lost (of his 80 plays, about seven survive, i think) - and there is no such thing as 'good parts' and 'bad parts' in a greek tragedy: even if you know the ending, the reading is always good - besides, it's a tragedy, so everyone ends dead, no big mystery.

As for the Brothers Karamazov, i don't know anything, as russian literature isn't my thing (excepting Maximo Gorki) - but anything written in the 19th century is good

By the way, you're mixing plays and writers, as Oedipus Rex was written by Sophocles, years after Aeschylus' work
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:50 / 15.12.02
even if you know the ending, the reading is always good - besides, it's a tragedy, so everyone ends dead, no big mystery

What I particularly like about this is that at the end of the Oresteia, everyone doesn't end up dead. Not that I want to spoil the ending for anyone.

Rosa, I think you're confusing the common definition of tragedy with the formal definition of Greek tragedy. The Oresteia is not a tragedy (or, more correctly, three tragedies) because everybody dies. It's three tragedies because they were put on as tragedy, because in turn each is organised with a prologue, the entry of the chorus, a series of episodes and stasima, and finally an epilogue. Also, the Oresteia addresses "tragic themes" - the relationship of gods and men, justice, hubris, blah, blah, fishcakes. But the same structure is used by Euripides' Helen, which is a long way off being a "tragedy" in the modern sense, but is still clearly a tragedy.
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
11:04 / 15.12.02
Thank you for pointing that, Haus, and you're correct saying that Oresteia is a tragedy because of the form rather than it's content - and no, no one dies at the end of Eumenides, but many many others die during the two previous parts of Oresteia (Orestes' father and step-mother)

But for my knowledge (and it's scarce regarding greek tragedies - hope University will clear that problem) the basis of the tragedy is that all the events are triggered off by a death and someone always dies.

So although Oedipus survives at the end of Oedipus Rex, the events of the play begin after he kills his own father, and his mother/wife Jocasta hangs herself (and let's not forget Oedipus blinds himself)

Thus i think it's right to say someone always dies in a tragedy
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:41 / 15.12.02
I don't think anyone dies in the Helen, or Iphigenia among the Taurians. The action is not begun by a death in the Hippolytus, or the Medea, or the Bacchae, or actually the Agamemnon, depending on where you want to start. So, no, I don't know where you got your definition of tragedy, but it's incorrect. Aristotle describes tragdy as "an imitation of a noble and complete action, having the proper magnitude". That frequently *involves* death, because many great actions involve death, but it doesn't *necessitate* death.

Tragoidos is a formal definition, describing a play written with a prologos (where a single speaker introduces the action), a parodos (where the chorus enters, usually through the sides of the stage but in the Eumenides unusually through the back of the stage - very startling stage effect, this), and then alternating episodai (where the characters interact in largely imabic verse) and stasima (where the chorus comments on a topic related to the action), ending with an exodos, where the action is resolved and the chorus leaves the stage after delivering a brief final speech.

The trilogy of the Oresteia is tragedy not because everybody dies, or indeed because anyone dies, particularly, but because it was structured in a particular way and entered as a tragedy in the dramatic contest of the Great Dionysia at Athens. It has many tragic elements and themes, as I believe I mentioned above. But the bodycount has nothing to do with it per se.

Oh, and Clytaemestra (the "n" is a Latinisation, before anyone starts) isn't Orestes stepmother. If she was there wouldn't be nearly such a big problem. She is his mother. This is sort of key.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
12:01 / 15.12.02
Currently digesting 'Fictions' by Jorge Luis Borges. Delicious, though unsure of some of the ingredients...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:20 / 15.12.02
The Five Great Novels Of James M Cain. Good stuff: Double Indemnity, The Postman Always Rings Twice, Mildred Pierce, Serenade, The Butterfly.
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
13:11 / 15.12.02
Okay, Haus, i think i'm going to shut up now as your too intelligent for my pretentious knowledge of literature.

Just two things though (and please, don't reveal my ignorance anymore - my ego won't take it)

1 - the action of the Oresteia begins with the death of Agamemnon at the hands of Clytaemestra as far as the story told in the trylogy is involved, but i know that this comes from crimes committed generations ago, in a cicle of avenging crimes with other crimes, until it's settled in Eumenides (please tell i'm right)

2 - I know very well the structure of a tragedy: the prologue, parodos, episodes, stasimas and the exodos, their meaning and purpose

Finally, i really should have remembered that Clytaemestra is Orestes' mother (must pay more attention to my professor) as the Furies avenge murders within a family involving family blood (a step-mother wouldn't share any blood link with a step-son)

I'm off to Oresteia then, and thanks for pointing my mistakes, Haus
 
 
iconoplast
18:15 / 15.12.02
Made us a shiny new tragedy thread.

And, to be topical:

I'm reading a bunch of German and Greek Philosophy in preparation for finals.

And Jane Eyre which is boring me to death but I liked the Eyre affair so I thought I'd give it a go.
 
 
The Strobe
20:38 / 15.12.02
Can we have a specific-Oresteia thread as well? I'd be very interested in discussing it, it being one of the few Greek tragedies I really really liked. Even if the third play (Eumenides?) isn't nearly as good imosho as the other two.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:41 / 15.12.02
Just drawing to the end of Patrick McGrath's "Asylum".
 
 
The Strobe
09:29 / 16.12.02
Ooh! Lucky you, Maominstoat. Aslyum, for some reason, is one of my favourite books, and it's certainly one of my favourite endings. The way the whole thing shifts very slowly in tone from the very start is just perfect... I still think Dr Haggard's Disease is probably the best of McGrath's books, but yes, I'd love to know what you made of it.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
10:54 / 16.12.02
Finishing Talking it Over by Julian Barnes. I get so angry when reading his books about jealousy and affairs that I don't know why I bother to read them at all, but there you have it. This one is no exception - I can't decide if I feel more murderous towards the characters or the author. Leaning towards author.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
14:19 / 16.12.02
Middlesex By Jeffrey Eugenides, which I've mentioned elsewhere. Also went through the various Ultimates/Ultimate X-Men books which were fun and the five No Mans Land Batman trades which do quite well but go horribly horribly wrong at the end. And now Volume 2 and 3 of Essential Daredevil by Frank Miller and some other people.
 
 
Jackie Susann
03:21 / 17.12.02
I am reading a fair bit of Foucault - the selected writings, esp. the volumes on aesthetics/method and power, and the Will To Know; a bunch of Andy Warhol bios - Wayne Koestenbaum's is the best, and Mary Woronov's 'Swimming Underground' is the best autobiog by one of Warhol's circle; and a lot of teen fiction. I am at the point where I'm fantasising teen fiction crossovers. "Wouldn't it have been great if Motorcycle Boy from Rumblefish went to the school from the Chocolate War and battled Archie and the Vigils for supremacy?" Etc.
 
 
alas
03:33 / 20.12.02
i have been devouring dorothy sayers peter wimsey books in no particular order; I love gaudy night and murder must advertise...and the nine tailors (mainly for the details on bell ringing. who knew?)! sayers has been a tremendously fabulous discovery. thanks to barbelith.

what else? recently finished/re-read: pudd'nhead wilson, by Mark Twain, Northanger Abbey (good old J.A.); washington square by Henry James. Introduced to A.L. Kennedy by a student--i like her.

Nonfiction: War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning, by Chris Hedges. It's ok--a little smug. some nice readings of literary treatments of war.

(and piles and piles of student essays.)

between times, remembering why I love emily dickinson so much, and reading her poems. need to get the new Franklin edition.

alas.
 
 
Brigade du jour
04:24 / 20.12.02
Ulysses. That's James Joyce, not Homer.

It's hard going, but I kind of drift in and out of it. I do that with difficult books - skim-read them so they enter my subconscious, then come back to them maybe years later, read them again and find they make a whole lot more sense.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:40 / 20.12.02
Homer...didn't.....write.....anything.....called....Ulysses. (Even excepting the contentious nature both of "wrote" and "Homer").

Hmmm..in the lastweek or so, a couple of trashy teen tie-in novels, "Fire and Hemlock" and "Charmed Life" by Diana Wynn Jones , "Silicon Snake Oil" by Clifford Stoll (interesting for its sheer antiquity - a bit like "Stupid White Men") and "Floozy" by Jane Graham, because Xtina Lamb was doing the pictures. I think my brain is powering down for Christmas...oh, and al this talk of Heidegger sent me back to Michael Inwood's Oxford Past Masters introduction to him. Top bloke, Michael.
 
 
Ariadne
08:41 / 20.12.02
I've just finished Donna Tartt The Little Friend. It was frustrating. She tells a good story and there are some fabulous, complex characters and relationships, but ultimately it just went nowhere. It started to drift from about half way through and despite some exciting, gasp-inducing drama, it just isn't very satisfying.

I'm now reading Zadie Smith's new one, The Autograph Man. Hmmm. Now, it could be because I only read it in half-hour bursts on the tube and haven't had time to sit down and get properly into it, but it's a bit dull. There's some clever-clever worldly-wise comments, some of which are funny and some are tiresome. And the characters seem stereotyped and a bit wooden. Which is a shame, because Zadie is immensely cool.
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
10:04 / 20.12.02
Nope, but Homer wrote Odissey, which means Ulysses in another language.

Anyway, Joyce's Ulysses is a though reading, one i still haven't gotten the courage to try; maybe after i finish Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey.
 
 
sarah
10:39 / 20.12.02
Simone Weil: the biography, very cool reading material about an extremely interesting person.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
11:13 / 20.12.02
Hmm, I thought 'Odyssey' meant journey or something while 'Odysseus' meant 'he-who-journeys'.
 
  

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