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Origin of the name Bartelby?

 
 
King Mob
20:28 / 05.09.01
i'm pretty damn sure he is a character from norse mythology, but i can't track down any proof to his identity. or the origin of the name.

if anyone could help me out, and give me wear they got the info, i would be truely in their karmic debt.

(i'm trying to prove a point to a teacher at my university.)
 
 
Jack Fear
09:39 / 06.09.01
By referencing Kevin Smith? Hoo boy. Good luck.

I took it as a reference to Herman Melville's short story "Bartleby the Scrivener," the existential tragedy of a man who "would prefer not to" in a world that demands action.

Ah, Bartleby! Ah, humanity!
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:39 / 06.09.01
Can't find anything on Bartleby as a character in mythology - the Encyclopedia Mythica comes up with nada. Could be that his behaviour in the Melville story - the "I prefer not to" bit - is like a god of another name shirking a duty or something?

I wasn't aware of a mythological basis for it, though... the Dogma connection with mythology (because the Bartleby character hangs out with Loki) is probably coincidence.
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:39 / 06.09.01
I thought Bartlby was a derivitive of Baelzly which is in turn spun off of bael or Bealzebub...

pardon the spelling, or the lack there of!!!
 
 
Lurker in the corner
09:39 / 06.09.01
Hmmm, this is interesting. If this was a lesser writer I would think it was because its a cool sounding name. But I am sure Smith (My Lord and Saviour) has an answer.

Are we to assume, however, that Loki was the Loki of Norse Myth? Because that really makes no sense to me.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:39 / 06.09.01
I think it could just be a basic tribute to Melville, y'know. Bartleby is, in a sense, one of America's great slackers, as he simply chooses to opt out of his work, out of everything. Maybe that's the link?
 
 
King Mob
16:49 / 06.09.01
I'm certain the name (the character) is older. Wasn't he referenced in "Good Omens" and possibly "Kid Eternity" comics?

yes, these could all (including Smith's reference) be homages to Melville's story. But i'm so sure there is a subtext of "Bartleby, the Screner" in that it was a story about norse gods working in an office.

maybe i'm just finally losing my mind but,

Narrator = Odin
Nippers = Loki
Turkey = Thor
 
 
RiffRaff
17:10 / 06.09.01
I don't remember a Bartleby in Good Omens, and it's been ages since I read Kid Eternity, but the rat-creature cub in Bone is named Bartleby.

[ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: RiffRaff ]
 
 
Jack Fear
19:56 / 06.09.01
quote:Originally posted by King Mob:
...I'm so sure there is a subtext of "Bartleby, the Scrivener" in that it was a story about norse gods working in an office.


...

You're high right now, aren't you?
 
 
King Mob
12:45 / 07.09.01
I'm deeply offended... i haven't been high for DAYS.

Attack of my sanity received loud and clear.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:19 / 07.09.01
quote:But I waive the biographies of all other scriveners for a few passages in the life of Bartleby, who was a scrivener the strangest I ever saw or heard of. While of other law-copyists I might write the complete life, of Bartleby nothing of that sort can be done. I believe that no materials exist for a full and satisfactory biography of this man. It is an irreparable loss to literature. Bartleby was one of those beings of whom nothing is ascertainable, except from the original sources, and in his case those are very small. What my own astonished eyes saw of Bartleby, that is all I know of him, except, indeed, one vague report which will appear in the sequel.
Read Bartleby, the Scrivener: A Story of Wall-street here, if you've not. I took another look around, and couldn't find anything supporting that view - it's written as an indictment of either artists or governments, apparently, the latter supported here. I'm not a Melville scholar, so I don't know if there was an underlying Nordic schema for the text, but I'm not that sure of it.

There's some other crit. here, and, even better, here. The latter's "sources" page scoured literary critics' works for references to other people and ideas that could've been used in the creation of the story - Nordic myth isn't mentioned, but, interestingly, both Poe and Buddhism are.
 
 
grant
14:26 / 07.09.01
The Bone reference is gonna pretty clearly be to Melville - the first few books are paeans to Moby Dick.
 
 
grant
14:56 / 07.09.01
quote:The report was this: that Bartleby had been a subordinate clerk in the Dead Letter Office at Washington, from which he had been suddenly removed by a change in the administration. When I think over this rumor, I cannot adequately express the emotions which seize me. Dead letters! does it not sound like dead men? Conceive a man by nature and misfortune prone to a pallid hopelessness, can any business seem more fitted to heighten it than that of continually handling these dead letters and assorting them for the flames? For by the cart-load they are annually burned. Sometimes from out the folded paper the pale clerk takes a ring:—the finger it was meant for, perhaps, moulders in the grave; a bank-note sent in swiftest charity:—he whom it would relieve, nor eats nor hungers any more; pardon for those who died despairing; hope for those who died unhoping; good tidings for those who died stifled by unrelieved calamities. On errands of life, these letters speed to death. 250
Ah Bartleby! Ah humanity!


I suppose you could try for a correspondence with Balder, the prettiest god and the dead god, the one Loki slew with mistletoe (the evergreen which makes oaks appear alive in winter).
It'd be tenuous, though. http://www.bartleby.com/129/index.html#251

And here:

quote:BARTHÉLEMY (m) French form of BARTHOLOMEW

BARTHOLOMAUS (m) German form of BARTHOLOMEW

BARTHOLOMEW (m) "son of Tolmai" (Aramaic). Tolmai is a Hebrew name that apparently means "abounding in furrows". In the New Testament Bartholomew is an apostle also known as Nathaniel.


Closest I could get to an etymology.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:24 / 07.09.01
quote:
Hmmm, this is interesting. If this was a lesser writer I would think it was because its a cool sounding name. But I am sure Smith (My Lord and Saviour) has an answer.


Well, keep in mind that the Old Testiment's angel of Death, who Smith called Loki is actually call Azreal the name of the Demon who should probably been called Azezel...
So I could Dare say that some choices in charactor names could simply have been Random or . . . HACK
 
 
Lurker in the corner
01:08 / 09.09.01
who knows what lurks in the mind of the Great and Powerful Smith
 
 
Little Miss Anthropy
05:50 / 09.09.01
A couple of puppies in tutus doing the charleston.

Dogma is a piece of crap. Some of Smith's worst writing, and that's saying something. There is no correspondence between either of theses names. How do I know this? You think Kevin Smith has the inclination to spend time designing fatuous tributes or nods at Melville?

They're probably just the net IDs of a couple of friends of his, or something. He's incapable of writing anything without an-injoke or a crass reference to previous material.
 
 
Jackie Susann
05:50 / 09.09.01
Isn't there also a Beckett play called Bartleby?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
07:49 / 10.09.01
Apparently, there's an "unsuccessful" Edward Albee adaptation. Don't know about the Beckett, though.
 
 
Jackie Susann
07:53 / 10.09.01
No, that was just me getting confused. How embarrassing.
 
  
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