Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

To Catch A Self-Saboteur

15:35 / 11.03.08

ever since i got in touch with Invisibles \ Chaos Magick \ Barbelith in general and the specific attached techniches i've been on and off in studies and practices.

me dealings with magickal studies, self-improvement, illumination path, reprogramming the brain, spiritual journey, reconnection with the Divine [or anything you want to call it] were never in a very organized fashion.

i've succeeded in achieving smaller stuff but i've never really managed to ignite a major transformation of my self, at least not in the way i feel would make me a better person.

every time i found it very difficult to overcome bad mental patterns that make me fall into my own mental traps again and again, be them originated from upbringing, birth, trauma, daily relationships or whatever you believe help shape our pesonality \ memeplex [is that still used? hehe, i dunno].

i've recently come to think i'm stuck perpetually in a loophole at an Abbyss Crossing that never ends\i can never get out of, metaphorically speaking. because i see myself falling to the same self-sabotaging over and over, because it i know now it feels more confortable ro do so, as i'm generally Afraid of The Future, of real Change.

although i don't want this anymore, i find it extremely difficult to overcome those patterns. i can't tell you how many times i've been told "just get over it already, let it go and get it on, dude" and all the time people were right!

but I just can't teach myself Not To Do something or how to replace those old comfy patterns with other better ones that put me in a real path of my own evolution.

old vices are hard to fight, this battle i've mostly lost until now - in some cases because i didn't even showed up for the confrontation, because i felt it was not worth the effort, i'm cool right here, thanks.

and i need to. otherwise i'll be this broken toy - repeating the same tired lines, making the same tired moves, never reaching anywhere.

i haven't found a specific thread that deals with that here, then I decided to create one so we can share ideas and experiences. how did you caught your own self-saboteur? what helped you identify, catch and kill\change it?

Unconditional Love

18:04 / 11.03.08

This i find also difficult, very hard to remove self destructive patterns of thought but more especially in my case anger and sadness.

I understand it in a number of ways, a cyclic kind of pattern and a progressive one and i think both run concurrent.

The cyclic pattern is where most of the emotional unconscious issues reside. I have a strong feeling that the cyclic is necessary to process those strong emotions that in a very real sense have become attachments that go into forming a picture/narrative of self. It seems to reflect a creation destruction cycle of persona created to deal with containing trauma, as these persona's are not the essential self they are created and destroyed by consciousness as a necessary survival mechanism to adapt to changing times. This in many ways seems to reflect nature, the seasons, trends, fashions etc and other things that change on a cyclic basis.

The progressive aspect is more of a narrative that looks at my self as a life time of experience as a whole person moving slowly but surely towards death. (and beyond) it understands the necessities of creation and destruction of self as tools to move through various parts of life and does not really see why i may lament things lost or loved as it sees the whole picture and is progressing towards itself, at least in my understanding.

I generally find i am being hard on myself when i feel as if i am the cycle of creation and destruction rather than having an awareness of the whole cycle as a progressive state of awareness.

I am more often than not, at least these days caught in that cycle, clinging with lust and desire with what i believe to be me, however brief the conditions may last within that time. I try to assume the elements of what i believe to be me with identification with certain words or clothes or certain feelings and disregard others as somehow alien to what i believe to be me at the time, but overall deep down i know none of this is permanent. The self that is eternal, the shining star, is all of these things together related as an experience of self identity for a brief period of apparent time.

I believe these cyclic progressions are necessary for change and evolution.

Unconditional Love

18:06 / 11.03.08

The last paragraph could be described as lusting for results.

00:30 / 12.03.08

Um. I'm generally of the group of people that when I find a pattern that I need to stop, I work until I really want it, then tell myself to stop. And repeat until I do stop - which, for most things, is quite quickly.

But then I have tried to build in a lot of things to do with what I think of as 'truth magic'. I am as honest as I can be in as many areas as possible in my life and as a result my subconscious/child self (or whatever you want to think of as making the change) believes me when I say stop and does so. (Caveat; I'm not claiming perfect results, this is just how it works when it works well and I'm in tune/connected!)

When this doesn't work, because sometimes things are buried deeper and linked in with other problems, I used to do Kala (I have currently gotten out of the habit of this. I will start again tomorrow.) Which involves taking the energy bound up in the habit/etc, breathing it into a glass of water, and then transforming the energy into something useful - not specified as anything except 'that which is most useful for me now' - and then drinking it back in. One way of transforming it is to ask a deity you get on with/your Guardian Angel/The Universal Spirit - etc/by whatever name - to transform it for you.

And then seeing what happens. Sitting with it. Understanding it. When you really understand why you still have these patterns you'll tend to understand how to let them go/transform them... and often this transformation then seems to happen naturally.

Maybe Kala would be a good exercise for you, transform some of the energy bound up in the habit into something that can give you insight instead?

On reading your first post I immediately wondered if calling it 'abyss-crossing' was really helpful for you. This way of labelling bad habits could become a way of making them seem important, of turning them into something that is worth keeping because it gives you a purpose. Just a thought. Perhaps musing on why you call it something that can almost sound romantic might reveal some insights for you?

*

02:14 / 12.03.08

I would be a wise, wise entity thing to pay close attention to this thread.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

02:25 / 12.03.08

Looking back at my own experience, I would say that for me enviroment has played a huge role in enacting a serious change in behaviour. Come to think of it, I would wager that there is a lot of printed material as well as online sources that deal with changing self-destructive or unhelpful behaviour in oneself. Couldn't tell you where to find it, though.

03:12 / 12.03.08

I am more often than not, at least these days caught in that cycle, clinging with lust and desire with what i believe to be me, however brief the conditions may last within that time. I try to assume the elements of what i believe to be me with identification with certain words or clothes or certain feelings and disregard others as somehow alien to what i believe to be me at the time, but overall deep down i know none of this is permanent. The self that is eternal, the shining star, is all of these things together related as an experience of self identity for a brief period of apparent time.

Jung's quite good on this, though I couldn't quote you. Basically, it's something like; youth is the time for questioning, adulthood is when you engage with the world, and old age is for metaphysics. I wonder if you aren't jumping the gun a bit, then. It's easy enough to get enraptured by that first flush of meaning, but it can be bollocks, also. In the meantime, you are allowed to enjoy yourself. Y'know, read some books, go out, have fun, ride a cycle to work, feed bread to ducks in the park, or whatever. Post-adolescence, as long as you're doing your bit, in terms of not treating anyone else unkindly, is for a couple of years really all you have to do.

You can worry about the state of the human soul, or the planet, later.

10:21 / 12.03.08

great thoughts, Haloquin. I'll try to work on Kala. i make it sound Romantic by giving what i'm going through that name probably because i'm dramaaatic; and yeah, naming it names gives it another dimension, probably one larger than it actually is.

Unconditional Love

18:34 / 12.03.08

I like to think we do what makes us happy and that is different for all of us. Being deep in understanding does it for me but also socialising, walks in nature, smiling at strangers etc etc, its a case of different moods and feelings at different parts of time.

Sometimes i enjoy the sound of my breath as i walk out to get food, it can be that simple as it just was. Other times i need to feel redemption for the wrongs of my life, and sometimes i use my anger to achieve good ends for others, thou that is a very calculated use of force. (and i do not mean physical violence)

And even my sadness and trauma multiplied with others, can be applied effectively to create positive effect in the community i belong too.

I think knowing yourself well enough now can be a way to change the world around you and bring you greater happiness into your life and that of others.

Unconditional Love

19:02 / 12.03.08

So for example this is a way in which my traumas can be used to create a more justice focused enriched community Lotto rapist ruling clears way for claims Every claim that goes forward pushes the government to revise the limitations on such case's more prudently, mine is currently on appeal.

Every apparent weakness can be a strength when applied with accurate intention and enough force and strategy.

07:59 / 13.03.08

i've recently come to think i'm stuck perpetually in a loophole at an Abbyss Crossing that never ends\i can never get out of, metaphorically speaking. because i see myself falling to the same self-sabotaging over and over, because it i know now it feels more confortable ro do so, as i'm generally Afraid of The Future, of real Change.

Sounds to me that - possibly - you might be in danger of getting a bit obsessed with "changing" and into the trap of beating yourself up when you don't live up to your self-created standards. Which is always easy to do because the standards we set ourselves are often wildly unrealistic and ego-driven. Ideals rather than aspirations. I did this *a lot* when I started in magick - reading fucking Crowley - and one of the best practices I was ever exposed to was one that encouraged me to work on self-acceptance.

Related to this is the culiavtion of something else that has benefited me tremendously - mindfulness practice. Part of this is paradoxically changing through dropping any desire to be different, accepting the present moment and yourself as you are, not as you have idealised youurself, imagined yourself or want to be. Weirdly, this can be quite liberating. I'd recommend the books of Jon Kabat-Zinn here to get started.

Would write more but have to go to teach a class full of kids. Mindfulness helps here also!

09:32 / 13.03.08

i've never really managed to ignite a major transformation of my self

I'd say that this phrase in particular makes me a bit suspicious. What does it mean to you? When I started out I used to want big cosmic showy "initiations", to "cross the abyss" or "transform the self". Now I wonder if such concepts and ideas don't get in the way, sometimes at least, as they provide a lot of fuel for fantasty and melodrama.

We can project a lot of idealisations onto and around such concepts - cross the abyss and the "perfect you" is on the other side, the cool magician type who is never perturbed or worried, but who has had this terrifying but strangely cool special experience.

09:54 / 13.03.08

I was thinking much the same thing as I was reading this thread. It's as if you're trying to effect a change that's almost driven by some kind of self-hatred and a desire to be something different from what you are, rather than participating in a process of understanding, acceptance and sensitivity to the nature of one's own being.

11:03 / 13.03.08

I got the same impression. The first stage of any change is to recognise what you have and work with it, not keep trying to change it. My big problem was always anger, and when I first started I was always trying to overcome it by playing at being really calm and enlightened and peaceful, but it never worked. Then I started working with the anger, using it to generate gnosis and using it in a controlled way - and that did help me calm down. As a magician, you use every weapon you have - you can't reject bits of your persona and try to change or transcend them, it's more about accepting them and finding a way to use them as part of the magic.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:55 / 13.03.08

Yeah, that kind of sent my spidey senses off. IME that mode of thinking is most likely to crop up when I am dragging through one of those periodic spells of "I am crap and rubbishy and ought to be put in the bin."

Of course it's been useful for me to identify patterns of toxic behaviour so as to gradually find ways to stop doing those things and make better choices, but other times the awful, terrible, unacceptable things I was fighting really hard to leave behind just happen to be healthy natural parts of my general makeup. I might need to find more wholesome, practicable expressions of such elements, but trying to amputate them was chucking the baby out with the bathwater.

14:15 / 13.03.08

It may sound a little trite, but I've actually found quite a bit of usefulness in the NLP things. Neuro-linguistic programming as it's grandiose name. Some of it is a little clinical and a little too self help book. But much of it is at least concrete ways to effect specific change on your psyche. As in the concept of anchors, which is almost just conditioning. But I'm just throwing it out to maybe find a book on basic NLP and try some of it, it's worked for me in a few very useful situations so far. And as for "real Change" as you put it, I'm in a state like that myself, of wanting it very much yet at the same time shying away. For a true shedding of self and putting on a new layer it seems like one (at least I) needs to be either in an state of extreme chaos, or know yourself and all your bits well enough to be comfortable to gently toss it away with no looking back. Otherwise, your previous patterns will continue to re-establish themselves. And you might find that once you've understood and accepted yourself you're already beginning to apply that new self. Also, some of these things you don't like about yourself might be indications of something bigger that you need to deal with, or even manifestations of something you value.

Sorry if this is all crap, I hope it's not, haha. This is my first post and I was really trying to contribute something with at least a little value. Hah

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

02:01 / 18.03.08

Some of it is a little clinical and a little too self help book.

Not sure what you mean by this, could you elaborate?

18:47 / 18.03.08

Well, part of it is my own innate reactions to some of the wording they use. But by clinical I mean that many of the books that I read seem rather sterile, with nothing to inspire the user/learner to use the techniques to greater efficiency. It's as if you took a few of the mystical type of neural programming and stripped it of all mysticality, which for people like me helps it work in a sort of hazy half-logic area where it seems most effective. And self-help book simply because if you don't look through the book enough you might end up with some, "Soon, you may be your bosses boss!!You can do it!! Go You!! Say it! Go YOU!!!", kind of things. And yes, I've run into a couple that just about go to that extent, haha

14:01 / 19.03.08

Rex Feral's remarks seem particularly apposite to me, especially that on self-acceptance as opposed to the rabid chase for change (don't get me wrong, I like change and I do it all the time).

May I suggest a method of beating repetitive cycles? Lateral thinking. Put something genuinely, threateningly novel into the mix of your experiences, something you'd never have considered relevant.

Excuse me if you've considered this already, but I saw no mention of it and it's served me well over the years.

06:18 / 20.03.08

One of the problems with focussing on what a person wants to get rid of, is that it has a tendency to lend energy to what one wants to change. An attachment develops, which can work against the intent, which is to change an aspect of one's life.

Desperation can set into play forces that can be highly dangerous, as well. I find myself going through a very powerful state of transformation right now. It was preceeded by a period where I was literally almost killed. I've got more than a feeling that if such an occurance happens with bad timing, that it could be very, very messy.

What has worked for me is daily integrating the practice of spirituality and magick into my life. I literally focus on it when I wake up with certain practices that serve to put me in that mode. It has become my primary modus operandi with dealing with life in general. It's been very, very good to me. It also has put me through a meat grinder, at times.

My advice, for what it's worth, is for you to train your spirit, your magick. Trust me, you'll transform. It just may not be on your timetable, and believe me, you don't want it to be. Our intellect, while very useful for many things, is a blunt instrument compared to that of magickal timing.