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Victorian Literature - your recommendations humbly sought

 
  

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Dusto
13:47 / 19.03.08
A little later than you're looking for, but Evelyn Waugh is good. I'd particularly recommend A Handful of Dust as a countermeasure to Dickens.

And as far as books set in Victorian times go, The West-End Horror, by Nicholas Meyer, is a Sherlock Holmes pastiche featuring Oscar Wilde, GB Shaw, and others.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
14:32 / 19.03.08
I've read quite a bit of Waugh and it is a bit too late for me - I'm looking for that Empire-building pre-WWI innocence/naivete about the place of Britain in the world - that Conan Doyle urban-industrial paradigm of fog, gaslight, murder, hansom-cabs, stair-rods, bonnets and impromptu fainting/fisticuffs (depending on gender), with a bit of country-house Gothic thrown in. Sherlock Holmes meets Jane Eyre, essentially (I know they're 30 years and hundreds of miles apart ...).

That Holmes parody sounds super though. Damn I wish Borders were better stocked.
 
 
ghadis
15:18 / 19.03.08
A couple of Holmes like detectives that you may like (albeit with a supernatural twist) are William Hope Hodgsons' Carnacki the Ghost Finder and Algernon Blackwoods' Psychic detective' John Silence. Out of copyright now so you can download away.

Hodgsons novel 'The House on the Borderland' is also well worth reading.

Also a couple of early science fiction you may like.

M.P.Shiel's 'The Purple Cloud' is a classic post-apocalyptic novel from 1901, the narrator is on an expedition to the North Pole when a mysterious purple cloud comes along and wipes out the rest of worlds population. Realising that he is the last man alive he, quite understandibly, wanders around, dresses up in dead peoples clothes and starts blowing up buildings with explosives. It's what i would do.

David Lindsays' A Voyage to Arcturus'from 1920 is, quite frankly, bonkers.
 
 
SGZax
21:00 / 20.03.08
I'm seconding the recommendations of Machen, Gaskell, Maturin... basically all of the above mentioned authors. Have you given Thomas Hardy a try? Tess of the Durbervilles is interesting from many angles... traditional, feminist, occultist...

Don't forget Dracula. The book drips with morbidity and hysteria. The infantilization of Lucy, who is also an almost universal object of desire, has always seemed to say something important about the author's opinion (fear?) of women.

Has anyone given a shout-out to Bulwer-Lytton? He gets bad press (he penned the infamous opening "It was a dark and stormy night") but his stuff is kind of central for people engaged in finding the secret undercurrents in literature and history. The Coming Race has been uncertainly linked to later Nazi strangeness and Zanoni has a lot of overlap with Theosophist philosophy. He's important is you're dealing with the history of magick or non-traditional philosophical inquiry as well as literature.

I'm finishing my Master's in English now and am dealing with Victorian attitudes toward science and fantasy. I have a paper shaping up that uncertainly (so far) deals with anxieties about scientific findings and what they mean about the Victorian understanding of the soul. I'm specifically making links between Frankenstein (which is a Romantic work, I know), Island of Dr. Moreau, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and "The Great God Pan."

Anyway, I found a great non-fiction book called A Geography of Victorian Gothic Fiction: Mapping History's Nightmares by Robert Mighall that is a great starting off point for dealing with some of these texts. I've have a fondness for situationist frameworks, and this book sort of treats Victorian gothic and horror fiction like a roadmap to the center of the Victorian soul. Maybe you could get it from a library?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
09:53 / 27.03.08
Cheers! It might be library time for the background reading, I reckon, but in the mean time I can thoroughly recommend the Flashman novels for fun and some enjoyable stealth learning (I now know an awful lot about the duchy of Strackenz - assuming it exists - thanks to reading Royal Flash, set in 1848).
 
 
Mark Parsons
04:23 / 29.03.08
RE Alice and Underground civilizations. Try ETIDORPHA (look at it backwards). Terrence McKenna, IIRC, thought this oddball, trippy book indicated that psychedelic mushrooms were available in Victorian times (they were "officially" rediscovered by Western intelligentia much later) and therefore the book (and hey maybe! even! ALICE IN WONDERLAND, man!) were inspired by shroomy visions. I have the book but never read it, but it seemed like a cool time capsule type item.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:16 / 31.03.08
I can think of nothing more boring than the idea that Alice in Wonderland is All About Drugs Really, except possibly the idea that one can read Gothic Horror against the grain to find it's actually subversive against Victorian Hypocrisy. Am I greatly misguided, and is there a thread to be had out of this?
 
 
GogMickGog
18:02 / 31.03.08
seconded, Reg.

Stuff and nonsense passed about by bong-addled philosophy students. Carroll was about as far from a 'proto-hippy' as can be imagined. And to dispell a series of comic routines and metaphors as finely wrought as those in 'Wonderland' as hallucinations etc is gimpish buffoonery of the highest order. Read Martin Gardner for the full scoop. Likewise, most gothic horror is chock full of the sort of prudish revulsion typical of the stereotypical Victorian mindset - I remember reading that Machen was one of only two writers polled on the Spanish civil war who came out in favour of Franco. The other was Waugh. Nuff said.
 
 
This Sunday
18:36 / 31.03.08
Rereading Orwell on Wells, I have to wonder if any artist ever knows what their contemporaries are up to. The Sleeper Wakes seems oddly culturally-prescient these days.

I'm getting back into Victorian/Edwardian-era (and just beyond) childrens' books, Barrie and Montgomery, Coolidge and Dodgson, Ozma and Elsie Dinsmore and the New Mother, et al.

The New Mother scares me shitless. It's like some horrible monstrous thing using the pretense of a moral to go on being thoroughly cruel. Lucy Clifford (nee Lane, which I am geeky enough to love intensely) is a good author to look at, actually. There's an interesting avoidance/hesitance in "The Last Touches" for instance, that I find oddly hypnotic.
 
 
Opalfruit
10:49 / 04.04.08
Recommendations for the Victorian era... hmm.

I've always enjoyed Matthew Lewis's 'The Monk'. An excellent example of the gothic novel that doesn't get a bit silly like some others.

I love George MacDonald Fraser's Flashman books, they're quite an education. The continuing adventures of Flashman from Tom Brown's school days as he gets reluctantly entwined in every signigicant battle in 19th Century history. Loved them great fun.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
20:49 / 07.04.08
Thoroughly enjoying my birthday Henry James ghost stories so far - although (perhaps it was the hangover, and perhaps it was the prose) I was literally unable to read James's introduction(s) without having to go over every sentence at least four times, thus inducing a non-blissful trance state.

And after these I have prostitute melodrama The Crimson Petal and the White to devour. Hooray!
 
 
GogMickGog
09:38 / 08.04.08
Does that collection have 'The Lonely Corner' in it, er, innit? Them's spooky oats. James in maximum creep mode.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
16:22 / 09.04.08
It's got "The Jolly Corner" in it, which may be the same thing and may be a companion piece, I suppose. I haven't got to it yet though - still on "Owen Wingrave".
 
 
All Acting Regiment
16:55 / 09.04.08
Do you want poetry reccomendations as well?

It's a thorny ground, that one, as a lot of people display a sentimental attachment to the Rossettis and various other contemptible vagarisers and divorcers of thought from feeling.

I'd better not get too exercised on this as it's part of a serious sssay I'm writing for publication, but I see evidence that the bad poetry of the Victorian era is responsible for the current understanding of poetry now as something Not To Be Read. It's a foul fog that, by debasing the Tradition, makes the stuff before it seem even more lifeless and inacessible when actually the reverse is true.

Now, Robert Browning and Gerard Manley Hopkins, on the other hand ... and also some of Emily Bronte, as in 'My Lady's Grave', if we omit the last two stanzas and are charitable toward S2:

THE linnet in the rocky dells,
The moor-lark in the air,
The bee among the heather bells
That hide my lady fair:

The wild deer browse above her breast;
The wild birds raise their brood;
And they, her smiles of love caress'd,
Have left her solitude!

I ween that when the grave's dark wall
Did first her form retain,
They thought their hearts could ne'er recall
The light of joy again.

They thought the tide of grief would flow
Uncheck'd through future years;
But where is all their anguish now,
And where are all their tears?

Well, let them fight for honour's breath,
Or pleasure's shade pursue--
The dweller in the land of death
Is changed and careless too.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
09:00 / 10.04.08
Do you want poetry recommendations as well?

Er ... not really. A snatch of Tennyson is about my limit, and besides, poetry's not really relevant to my project.

But thanks though!
 
 
bahamut
22:24 / 24.06.08
This may be too late for your purposes, I'd really recommend Richard Marsh's The Beetle. It's a text that I stumbled across when studying Victorian literature at university. I wrote on it because it had the values of being very short, freely available online, and including a lengthy and astonishing check-list of Victorian psycho/sociosexual concerns. I'm always puzzled not to find more critical attention devoted to it: it's an almost ridiculously xenophobic (even by Victorian standards) tale about a giant shapeshifting hermaphrodite beetle From A Foreign Clime, for a start. It's also fascinating to read if you're at all interested in gender, empire and science vs mysticism in the Victorian era.

You can find a copy online here.

Also, apparently, The Beetle was once as popular as Dracula. Who knew.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
22:31 / 24.06.08
Ooh lawks!

That looks rather good. I'll check it out. Mind you, I might have to read it only after I've devoured "A Cupful of Tears - Sixteen (SIXTEEN!!!) Victorian Novelettes" (£3 in Oxfam)
 
 
ghadis
08:35 / 25.06.08
Bit of lit trivia for you. Richard Marsh was the grandfather of Robert Aickman, mid-twentieth centuary weird writer supremo, so the spooky certainly runs in that family. If you fancy a crazy weird-assed autobiography, Aickmans' 'The Attempted Rescue' is the one to go for. It's very odd and disturbing, his early family life was nuts. His mother, Marsh's daughter, married his father in her early 20s. It was only until after they were married that he told her that he was in his early 50s. She'd thought they were around the same age. She was apparently quite annoyed with him about this for the rest of their marriage!
 
 
Whisky Priestess
14:39 / 25.06.08
It's amazing how young the young can believe the middle-aged to be ...
 
 
Dusto
16:17 / 26.06.08
I just started A. Crowley's Moonchild. Seems like it might fit with what you're reading. Try also some G.K. Chesterton. The Man Who Was Thursday, for instance.
 
 
GogMickGog
18:01 / 26.06.08
I dunno if you've room for pastiche in your remit, O Priestess, but if so I'd thoroughly recommend Alasdair Gray's Poor Things, wot I just done read.

The bulk of the text is a kind of feminist revision of Frankenstein, albeit written from the perspective of a typically small-minded Victorian bloke, but which then does an about face and revises it's own self halfway through.

Being Gray, it's wonderfully designed and assembled into a number of sections purporting to contain found texts, newspaper clippings and recovered letters. This allows for a number of styles and many a sly nod to the Victorian wordsmith which I'm sure you'll enjoy, immersed as you now must be in the philosophies and mannerisms of the period.

Elsewhere, might I drop a mention for Ambrose Bierce? If you're after an American perspective on the late 1800s, he wrote wonderfully on the Civil War, in which he fought, and some of his ghost stories are among the nastiest I've yet read (available in open source or in several reprints).

These days Bierce is best known both for the wonderful Devil's Dictionary and the fact that he disappeared in Mexico in 1913, reporting on the Mexican Civil War, never to be seen again. Having worked mostly as a journalist, his prose is clean and clipped and has aged much better than those tending towards gothic drippery.

Elsewhere, if you're willing to push the 'pre-1900' tag a little and are after something indefinably creepy, might I point towards Mary Butts? She's filed under modernism, but her stories have a strong leaning toward the M.R./Henry James camp: links to the Golden Dawn and dabblings with various narcotics give her writing a shimmering, hallucinatory quality.

I love her to bits, dubious politics notwithstanding (why is that so often the case with writers of the supernatural?).

Her short story 'Mappa Mundi' would be a very good place to start.
 
 
Dusto
23:24 / 26.06.08
Poor Things is wonderful. I think it's my favorite novel by Gray, and thus one of my favorite novels.
 
 
JaredSeth
21:11 / 06.07.08
For a bit of fantasy, maybe George MacDonald's Lilith or Phantastes (1890s and 1850s respectively). Also, a bit out of the period, but definitely written in the styles...and I apologize if it's already been mentioned...but The Worm Ouroboros by E.R. Eddison?
 
 
Dusto
23:22 / 06.07.08
I love The Worm Ouroboros, but can you expand on how it fits? As you say, it's not of the period, nor is it about the period.
 
 
SGZax
04:35 / 14.07.08
I have to second the post above the recommended The Beetle. Richard Marsh is wonderfully creepy and does a nice bit of gender bending as well. There is a great critique of Marsh and other fin de siecle writers by Kelly Hurley called The Gothic Body.

Valancourt Books is a terrific micropublisher of gothic and fin de siecle work. They have a few by Marsh and have even republished one book by Marie Corelli. Zittaw is also worth looking at. Both have websites that are easy to find.
 
 
HCE
13:39 / 14.07.08
George Eliot!
 
 
Dusto
18:15 / 14.07.08
A bit off-topic, but GogMickGog, have you seen From Dusk Till Dawn 3: The Hangman's Daughter? Unlikely as it may seem, it's actually not a horrible film. The link to this discussion? The main character is Ambrose Bierce, in Mexico. And in the same way that the first From Dusk Till Dawn was a Tarantino crime film that turns into a vampire film, this one is a spaghetti western that turns into a vampire film. Not great, but interesting, and it contains several nods to Bierce's writing.
 
 
GogMickGog
10:22 / 17.07.08
Haven't seen it Dusto, nah. I enjoyed the first one up until the big twist - the vampire gore was so overdone plus Cheech Marin's "pussy" speech was a really ugly, unbearable bit of misogyny. Even Tom Savini couldn't save it for me.

Masters of Horror did a passable version of 'The Damned Thing' which was, if I remember, only a little loose with the source material and had added Ted Raimi too.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:04 / 30.07.08
Have we mentioned H. James' Daisy Miller? It's extremely good.

"Mr. Winterbourne!" murmured Daisy.

"Mademoiselle!" said the young man.

"Don't you want to take me out in a boat?"

"At present?" he asked.

"Of course!" said Daisy.

"Well, Annie Miller!" exclaimed her mother.

"I beg you, madam, to let her go," said Winterbourne ardently; for
he had never yet enjoyed the sensation of guiding through the summer
starlight a skiff freighted with a fresh and beautiful young girl.

"I shouldn't think she'd want to," said her mother. "I should think
she'd rather go indoors."

"I'm sure Mr. Winterbourne wants to take me," Daisy declared. "He's so
awfully devoted!"

"I will row you over to Chillon in the starlight."

"I don't believe it!" said Daisy.

"Well!" ejaculated the elder lady again.

"You haven't spoken to me for half an hour," her daughter went on.

"I have been having some very pleasant conversation with your mother,"
said Winterbourne.

"Well, I want you to take me out in a boat!" Daisy repeated. They had
all stopped, and she had turned round and was looking at Winterbourne.
Her face wore a charming smile, her pretty eyes were gleaming, she was
swinging her great fan about. No; it's impossible to be prettier than
that, thought Winterbourne.

"There are half a dozen boats moored at that landing place," he said,
pointing to certain steps which descended from the garden to the lake.
"If you will do me the honor to accept my arm, we will go and select one
of them."

Daisy stood there smiling; she threw back her head and gave a little,
light laugh. "I like a gentleman to be formal!" she declared.

"I assure you it's a formal offer."

"I was bound I would make you say something," Daisy went on.

"You see, it's not very difficult," said Winterbourne. "But I am afraid
you are chaffing me."

"I think not, sir," remarked Mrs. Miller very gently.

"Do, then, let me give you a row," he said to the young girl.

"It's quite lovely, the way you say that!" cried Daisy.

"It will be still more lovely to do it."

"Yes, it would be lovely!" said Daisy. But she made no movement to
accompany him; she only stood there laughing.

"I should think you had better find out what time it is," interposed her
mother.

"It is eleven o'clock, madam," said a voice, with a foreign accent, out
of the neighboring darkness; and Winterbourne, turning, perceived the
florid personage who was in attendance upon the two ladies. He had
apparently just approached.

"Oh, Eugenio," said Daisy, "I am going out in a boat!"

Eugenio bowed. "At eleven o'clock, mademoiselle?"

"I am going with Mr. Winterbourne--this very minute."

"Do tell her she can't," said Mrs. Miller to the courier.

"I think you had better not go out in a boat, mademoiselle," Eugenio
declared.

Winterbourne wished to Heaven this pretty girl were not so familiar with
her courier; but he said nothing.

"I suppose you don't think it's proper!" Daisy exclaimed. "Eugenio
doesn't think anything's proper."

"I am at your service," said Winterbourne.

"Does mademoiselle propose to go alone?" asked Eugenio of Mrs. Miller.

"Oh, no; with this gentleman!" answered Daisy's mamma.

The courier looked for a moment at Winterbourne--the latter thought he
was smiling--and then, solemnly, with a bow, "As mademoiselle pleases!"
he said.

"Oh, I hoped you would make a fuss!" said Daisy. "I don't care to go
now."

"I myself shall make a fuss if you don't go," said Winterbourne.

"That's all I want--a little fuss!" And the young girl began to laugh
again.

"Mr. Randolph has gone to bed!" the courier announced frigidly.

"Oh, Daisy; now we can go!" said Mrs. Miller.

Daisy turned away from Winterbourne, looking at him, smiling and fanning
herself. "Good night," she said; "I hope you are disappointed, or
disgusted, or something!"
 
 
Dusto
01:08 / 31.07.08
As I said, it's not a great movie, and the misogyny and gore from the first are just as present here as they were there. The primary interest, to me, is that Bierce is the subject.
 
 
Dusto
01:09 / 31.07.08
I read a review of Daisy Miller somewhere arguing that Winterbourne is a vampire. I don't think it holds up, but it was an interesting idea nonetheless.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:17 / 31.07.08
He does spend quite a bit of time hanging about in daylight, so I don't know. He might be like one of those internet vampires.
 
 
GogMickGog
16:54 / 01.08.08
Ay, sorry about that one Dusto: reads back a little snarky. Chances are I was over-tired and under-stimulated at the time of writing.

Now.

Another tipoff: an earlier post mentioned Chesterton's The man who was Thursday. It strikes me that a nice companion to that book would be Jack London's The Assassination bureau. It's a distinctly odd affair - a mixture of swashbuckling heroics and rambling philosophical discourse (it's also really good, as is a lot of his writing).London never finished it before he died, and the book was later concluded by another writer (Robert L. Fish according to Wikipedia).

There's a film version with Olly Reed, Diana Rigg and others which is, by all accounts, a little more tongue-in-cheek and
 
 
GogMickGog
16:56 / 01.08.08
Sorry to leave you hanging there, but there's a hammering at my window and voices in the corridor...
 
 
museum in time, tiger in space
13:31 / 02.08.08
Sorry to leave you hanging there, but there's a hammering at my window and voices in the corridor...

If it turns out to be vampiric Ambrose Bierce, just remember not to invite him across the threshold.
 
  

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