BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Ancient Evenings by Norman Mailer

 
 
buttergun
19:42 / 30.01.08
Has anyone here read this? I have two copies -- the first printing of the hardcover (probably the ONLY printing of the hardcover), and a mass market paperback from the late '80s. I hear mixed opinions...that is, if I hear anything at all. Seems like the book caused a stir when published in '82, but everyone's forgotten it since then.

I should add, I have not read the book...just checking to see if it's a journey worth taking.
 
 
GogMickGog
09:09 / 31.01.08
Well, BG, Iain Sinclair mentions it in the same breath as Burroughs' The Western Lands and Peter Whitehead's The Risen. Having read both of those, I would expect a certain amount of rambling mysticism and awkward structure. I know that Mailer trades a lot on the mysticism and the ritual side of things, rather than a straight historical romp, if that sells it for you. Anthony Burgess and Howard Bloom were both big fans, too (or so Wikipedia tells me). I'd say it's worth a punt.
 
 
buttergun
20:36 / 04.02.08
I'd heard of that Bloom review. At one point the NYTimes (which published it) wanted $4 to download it. I just searched for it, and it seems they've posted it all for free now:

NORMAN IN EGYPT

This must set a precedent for the number of times "buggery" is used in a review...
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:44 / 04.02.08
Mm.

Well it's an acknowledged influence on Burroughs' 'Western Lands' trilogy (as, if memory serves, is Mailer's later book on the CIA) so I'd guess it's defintely worth a shot.

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it, actually. Mailer isn't necessarily the greatest prose stylist in the world, but on the other hand, he could have churned out book after book on the subject of war, death, the sweat of men and so on, but didn't. Or at least, he kind of didn't.

I've read just a couple; 'Tough Guys Don't Dance' (about drugs) and 'Deer Park' (about celebrity) but he usually does have interesting things to say, about whatever it is he's taken the time to sit down and go into.

A discreet veil could perhaps be drawn over his book about the Fuhrer, but having not been through it myself (it seems like more of a holiday novel than the other thing - I'm guessing it's quite funny, if inadvertently) I'm not in a position to comment.
 
 
GogMickGog
09:17 / 05.02.08

'An American Dream' is rather wonderful - crucial, too, for Bloom's theories on the significance of buggery in Mailer's writing. If you're after a sort of suicidal mish-mash of Scorsese's 'After Hours' and Mamet's 'Edmund', then it's a definite yes.

I'd definitelybe keen to hear what you make of this one, BG
 
 
buttergun
20:54 / 15.02.08
You all have inspired me to tackle this thing. I'm about 50 pages in. It has a bumpy start, but now I'm getting into Mailer's recounting of Egyptian myth.

Speaking of Bloom, I have a feeling I'll be referring to his essay often, to renew my spirits...I just have a feeling about halfway through this thing other books will begin to look very appealing.

And also speaking of Bloom -- here's something cool. I've long been a fan of his novel "The Flight to Lucifer." I've been reading a lot of his work lately, and thought, what the heck, I'll drop him a line and let him know how much I admire him (and also ask a question about the name he chose for his novel's main character). To my surprise, he wrote me back within a few hours! You can bet I'll be saving THAT email!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:03 / 16.02.08
I just have a feeling about halfway through this thing other books will begin to look very appealing.

I can understand why this might be.

But, BG, you're taking one for the team here! If you're having problems with getting into Mailer's headspace, why is this? Because you haven't beaten your wife half to death, or become 'addicted' to 'pot', or because you haven't published enough stuff about boxing?

Being careful, I think you should do all three. While it might seem like a bit of an agenda, how else can you possibly comment on Mailer's genius?

Although, if 'Ancient Evenings' is getting you down, just throw the f***ing thing in the bin. Mailer's work, god rest it's soul, is Hemmingway with at least sometimes interestingly grotesque pretensions. But that's about your lot.

Consider Mailer as an embarassing bloodstain on your t-shirt - we've all had them, no judgement here. But he's not someone to be taken seriously. He got into a fight with Martin Amis, apparently, at a launch. Amis might say otherwise, but how could anyone in their right mind try to fill in a ... well Amis is quite short. Mailer, in other words, as a bullying, aggressive drunk, who put what he must have perceived as a garden gnome into the facilities.

There's something to be said for the wild man of American lettters; I still believe in it, the green light at the end of the harbour, etc, myself. But Mailer, in conclusion must have only seen it blankly, through a self-inflicted red mist.
 
 
buttergun
04:51 / 23.02.08
Almost three hundred pages in (reading other stuff on the side), and it's really not that bad. Not "difficult" like Pynchon or anything...I'd say the only thing going against it is it's too damn long and disjointed. It's filled with stories upon stories, and no cohesive plotline, which even Gravity's Rainbow had.

In the review linked above, Bloom mentions that Ramses II and Meni the First are the two most important characters in the novel...only he doesn't mention that their story doesn't begin until over 200 pages in. That should give you an idea of the problems of pacing. The book opens with a fantastic recap of Egyptian mythology, then stumbles with a too-long sequence narrated by the precocious six-year-old Meni the Second, who has the psychedelic ability to channel into the thoughts of others. But there are lots of conversations and scenes that have nothing to do with anything, and do not reward the effort of reading through...unless you want to know how Ramses IX advises his stone-cutters on how to properly fix the road outside of the city.

Anyway, I'm still working through it...it's better than I thought it would be, at least.
 
  
Add Your Reply