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Leaving home for a new home

 
 
Triplets
21:16 / 17.01.08
Hello all. It's a new year and very soon (tomorrow) I'll be starting to look for a place of my own. A lot of things have come together over the last couple of months that have made me sure (bar some flutterbyes) that this is the right time.

I'm looking for advice on moving out for the first, what to look for when you're viewing a flat (including the blindingly obvious, i'll be new at this), living alone (possibly), and what wins in a fight: living on your own vs flatsharing.

I'm earning enough right now to afford a small, one bedroom flat and live comfortably. A flatshare would be my preferred choice but the person I'd kind of had a deal with has started to flake out on people these past couple of weeks. I wouldn't put money on her put it that way, but I am going to mass-text everyone I know tomorrow in case they're thinking of moving out, or someone they know is.

I suppose, really, I'm wondering what the Lith's experience moving out of the nest was like, is like, and how to make it as nice a transition as possible. All Acting Regiment, your past flat stories gave me the sadface but you're now living, from what you've said, somewhere decent, so feel free to wade in. That goes for you all.

Ready to leave the nest. I am the excite.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:27 / 17.01.08
I really can't speak highly enough of living all by yourself if you have the opportunity -- you are responsible for all the mess in the apartment and have no reason to potentially fall into passive-aggressive behaviours (or encounter them in flatmates), and you learn a lot about yourself in the process.

That said, if you're looking to rent with someone, I would pick someone you could depend upon to be clean and calm. And to pay bills on time! Someone you feel comfortable talking to about important stuff, who will respect your space and needs. And you have to respect yours: if you know that your flatmate needs to be in bed early, don't invite people over into the dark hours for loud hanging out.

Make sure you come to a good arrangement about rent and bills. Either you make one of you responsible for all of them, or you split it evenly down the middle (you pay cable, they phone, etc).
 
 
Triplets
22:06 / 17.01.08
Thanks, Pape. To be honest, especially saying it outloud, I'm liking the sound of solo-living more and more. You make a great point about being responsible for your own clutter (and bills, and noise) and no-one elses. It's one that's already been made by an ex (who now lives in her own flat mit baby (not mine, people, in case you were wondering) and it's stuck with me.

I suppose the flatshare idea appeals 1) to alleviate the sudden shock of living alone and 2) be easier on the rent. Looking at it, though, I'm not sure 1) would be that harsh a transition and 2) isn't that big a difference. Hmm.
 
 
COG
22:10 / 17.01.08
Well, the one time that I lived on my own, I was fresh out of a break-up, so the peace and space was a good thing, but I am glad to be living with people now (2 out of 3 are nice and friendly). I have found that you cannot predict what people will be like to live with. I have lived with all of my closest friends over the years and come close to killing them, whereas complete strangers have been fine most of the time. Sharing is good as you get to use all their stuff if they are nice. And you will always have a drinking/Xbox buddy on hand.

Rules are a good thing to sort out straight away. Bills and rent obviously, and cleaning is the other biggie. Some people are clean (bleach everything), and others are tidy (everything in its place). There is a big difference.
Rather than have a vague time based rota for cleaning which can lead to "I did it last" arguments, I prefer one based on location. i.e. You take the kitchen, the other takes the bathroom. If one room is dirty, it's clear whose responsibility it is. Jobs can be swapped around every few months to keep it fair.

Put £5 each in a jar every Saturday. Pay for toilet roll, cleaning products etc out of this. If the cash builds up in the jar, have a party with it.

As for actual flat-hunting. Go and see as much as possible and don't get down-hearted that it's all overpriced shit. Somewhere out there is the right place for you. My check list includes - flush toilet, check shower strength, open windows, turn lights on etc etc. Try and get the heating to be on for an hour before you view it to judge how warm it will be. If you see a nice place, try and see it again at another time of day to discover any noisy neighbours etc

Look around the area. Don't live near schools, building sites, trains, large industrial anything - all noisy.

Take a camera and a notebook otherwise you will forget the details of everything after the first 3 you see. Don't be embarrassed to ask lots of questions and hang around more than 5 minutes. Go back through all the rooms a 2nd or 3rd time. Sit in a corner and imagine living there. remember you will be giving the landlord thousands of pounds, so you had better be happy with the place. If some piece of furniture you expected to be there, isn't - ask for it. You never know.

When moving in, take that camera when you do the check in, and write down & photograph any damage/broken thing so that you don't get stiffed for it later. If you look like a pro moving in, they are less likely to attempt to rob you down the line. After 20 years of renting I have never not got my deposit back.

whew, that was a long post. Probably more to follow if I think a bit.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:25 / 17.01.08
Flatsharing's cool as long as you have a LOT of private space.

These days? Fuck that. I want to have my home to myself (well, actually it apparently belongs to the dog, but she doesn't count).

I must highly recommend living on your own. Mind you, I used to LOVE living with a bunch of people too. The ideal, really, is to have your own place VERY CLOSE to your friends. That way you've always got company when you want it, but you get all the space you want when you NEED that.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:32 / 17.01.08
The ideal, really, is to have your own place VERY CLOSE to your friends. That way you've always got company when you want it, but you get all the space you want when you NEED that.

So true! Having a lot of friends within walking distance means you'll always have people to hang out with when you need it, and it also encourages you to stay in your neighbourhood and build up the local "scene" - local pub, stores, et cetera - which in turn improves your living conditions and gives you more reasons to like your place.
 
 
Triplets
22:48 / 17.01.08
I'm getting ready for bed but I'll say I'm loving all this so far.

COG, fucking great viewing advice, to the point were I'll probably print off a copy.

Stoats/Papes, very true about the ideal is your mates all having their own places in one big group. The LOLworthy thing about that is that, as far as I know, I'm the only one out of my mates considering moving out at the moment. All the others are comfortably living with their folks for at least the next six months. And I'm meant to be one of the slackers.

I've already made myself promise that I'll try and hold out for a place that's in the three towns that make up my local area (ie, where I drink) so I'm close to my found family (a term for best mates, which I'm blatantly nicking from Papers).

Off to bed, but this thread never sleeps...
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:08 / 17.01.08
It helps to think about what you expect out of your new place: do you want some place you feel comfortable having a party (which would assume space & probably flatmates) or are you more like me, and prefer to have a fortress of solitude (while going out places to party instead). Is having a view from your window important (having lived in tiny little half-bedrooms that look out onto a wall, it is for me, even if I like my current view of an interesting alleyway & house next door). Light is important! So important. If you don't have enough windows, you need enough lamps, but having balance between the two is ideal for your mental health.

Local area: access to bus routes, groceries, takeout food (I'm in walking distance of three Chinese food joints, for example, even if I don't go the extra ten minutes to downtown).

What are you willing to give up for better rent? I have a pretty decent deal for Victoria for a bachelor suite right now, but I have to share the bathroom & water closet with the other tenants (it's an old character house converted into suites) -- but then, the house is ridiculously quiet and I've NEVER had any kind of a problem with anyone else (knock on wood) in the house, and it's almost like we're all on separate vibrational planes -- we hear each other but almost never see each other, and we're all pretty quiet even then.

How much cooking do you do, how tall are you (seriously -- think about how tall you are when looking at bathrooms, tubs, shower stalls). If you're upstairs, it's important to ask how sound works between floors -- should you expect to walk a bit softer to minimize disturbances for those below? Or if you're downstairs, ask how much noise you can expect from above.
 
 
Saturn's nod
07:10 / 18.01.08
Wow, COG = pro tenant, smart.

Laundry's one thing that I pay attention to when considering a tenancy. Where are you going to be able to wash stuff? What about drying? Any outside space, or are there racks in the house, or radiators?

This links to the second thing I pay attentions to: damp. Look out for things growing out of the walls, mildew, and damp patches. Due to people's habits of drying clothes inside houses, the water goes into the walls and ceiling spaces and I know very few british properties that aren't borderline damp. (My personal solution to keep the house free from damp is a portable dehumidifier unit - runs at about 10% of the watts of a tumble dryer - dries out the air in rooms.)
 
 
Ron Stoppable
07:31 / 18.01.08
yeh it looks like COG has the whole renting bit down; sound advice. I completely second the idea of taking notes: I've just moved into a place, paid my crippling deposit, first month's rent etc only to be suprised on my first night to discover the HUGE 6 foot by 4 foot skylight right above my bed that somehow I had completely forgotten.

Which is great for looking up at the stars as I drift off to sleep but something of a suprise come the morning when the condensation lashing off the thing turns the area of my bed into a mini-rainforest ecosystem. And it does rain. Flawed design is flawed.

So yeh, you'd think these things would stick in the mind but if you see six places in a day, they'll all blur into one immediately.
 
 
jamesPD
09:36 / 18.01.08
I've got to agree with COG about the problem of living with friends. There's a big difference between seeing your mates three of four times a week and actually having to live with them 24-7. It's difficult to gauge how clean or responsible people are until you’re sharing a flat. If you've known them for a while, try and recall what they were like when their previous relationships ended, or when they had arguments with their family. Did they sulk and hold grudges? Did they talk about their problems or bottle it all up inside until they popped?

Ofcourse, your millage may vary, and perhaps you've been blessed with better friends than I. However, as a yard-stick, never move in with anyone that tries to weasel out of buying a round in the pub. If they'll skimp on buying drinks, you have more luck getting blood from a stone that collecting money for toilet rolls.

-James "bitter and friendless" PD
 
 
Spaniel
10:03 / 18.01.08
Like Cog, I too have never failed on the deposit front. Work that camera, get those date stamped photos! If something breaks a little too effortlessly in the first few days/weeks take a photo of that too, and make a complaint straight away. Shit like ballustrades may well be fixed in place with paint - don't let any fucker rob you of your deposit over shoddy ballustrades.

The Boboss didn't!

Also, speak to the previous tenants if at all possible. Ask them about the landlords and/or the management company (make a note of who they are and run a web search - check 'em out), and the estate agents. Are they helpful? Does shit get fixed in a timely fashion? Does it get fixed properly? Does the agent (assuming it's the one you're going with - assuming you're going with one at all. The nicest place I've ever rented was a private rent) charge all sorts of horrid hidden admin fees (you probably won't be able to avoid these entirely, but some agencies would appear to be worse than others). If you hear any horror stories, run a mile.

As for whether you should live alone or with others - be they friends or random flatshares - bear in mind that if you want something nice you're much more likely to get it with combined earning power. I am, of course, assuming that you're job isn't super great.

Like the man says above, it's very difficult to tell what someone's going to be like to live with until you're in it. I've lived with very good friends and total strangers (one of whom I married) and I've had good and bad experiences with both. What I would recommend, however, is trying to get an idea what anyone you're planning to live with is like with money. I lost out to the tune of around £500 a few years ago thanks to the complete and utter shitness of my ex-flatmates, both of whom I considered - and still do consider - really good pals. Really good pals that I would never, ever contemplate sharing living space with again. The thing is, I kind of knew they were crap before I signed the lease, but for some reason I ignored the blaring mind sirens and offered up my scrawl regardless.

Which brings me to my next thing, it's all very well talking about optimum living condititions, but I'm not sure that I'd actually be willing to get into the TARDIS head back down the timestream and change any of mine. I say that as a man who has lived with bubbling fungus, rooms thick with cold wet humidity, and estate agents who battled like truly desperate men to fuck me over at every turn. It was all sort of fun in way, and educational. I learned a lot about me and what I can and can't put up with, and who I can and can't live with, and what I need from my own place.

Remember

Beware damp. Look behind that cupboard

All estate agents are COMPLETE AND UTTER SHITBAGS WHO WISH TO MAKE YOU VERY UNHAPPY INDEED. Do not let them.

If you want to keep your deposit you're gonna need to clean that place top to bottom before you hand over the keys. I've been known to hire a carpet cleaner.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:44 / 18.01.08
My experience summed up = avoid like the plague people who you don't know. Do not live with them. The world contains a multitude of horrors. I mean -



...

People you do know might not be any better, but still, you've had a chance to scent that if you know them.
 
 
Spaniel
12:08 / 18.01.08
I think it depends where the people you don't know come from. If they're friends of friends you can normally get some idea of what they might be like - I've lived happily with people who I've come into contact with in that way.

And then there's the marriage. Don't forget the marriage.

And babies.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:06 / 18.01.08
Good point. Never share with married couples or babies. They crap _everywhere_.
 
 
Spaniel
13:16 / 18.01.08
To be the serious, sharing with a couple is a thing in that you tend to get excluded from their bubble-of-love/warfare. Can be nice if you don't want to feel pressured into socializing, tho'
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:26 / 18.01.08
Never share just with a couple, though, unless you want constantly to be reminded that you are by definition outvoted about everything, and that actually you will be watching Heartbeat, thanks.

This assuming that they are also of your tender age. By my wisened time of life, people have either mellowed a bit or become completely unmanageable. Monsters. Monsters in matching sweaters.

Also, the crap. Everywhere, I tell you.
 
 
The Idol Rich
13:26 / 18.01.08
When I first moved out of home it was great living with people, now I'm older and less sociable I want my own space and I would love to be able to afford to live on my own, I reckon that's not an uncommon trajectory.

Good point. Never share with married couples or babies. They crap _everywhere_.

Especially the babies.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:33 / 18.01.08
I had to let him in. He knocked.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
13:36 / 18.01.08
What kind of married couples are you hanging out with anyway, Hausus?

Lots of good advice above. Just wanted to add one thing: Make damned sure that you have a third-party, independent person doing the inventory, and BE THERE when it's done so you can check and double-check that it's been done fully and truthfully. Make sure your contract conforms to legal standards, such as the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement standard. Further, don't agree to pay into any deposit account that is not conforming to the Tenancy Deposit Protection scheme.

Link to AST info here and TDP info here.
 
 
Spaniel
13:41 / 18.01.08
The TDP thing is relatively new, isn't it? Didn't have that in my renting days
 
 
grant
13:56 / 18.01.08
The only thing I'd add to COG's and Haus' advice is to look at a place during the day and then go back and cruise around the area (or even inside the building) at night. Places can change character after dark.

I also give bonus points to apartments that have decent plants around the outside; shows that someone's taking care of the place, makes it homey. But depending on your surroundings that might not be an option.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:41 / 19.01.08
While the some of the above advice seems sensible, Trips, I wonder if it's germane. All you're really thinking of doing is moving out of the family home to a place a few miles down the road - it's not as if you're planning on joining the US army during the Da Nang offensive, or anything.

Not for the first time, I'm shocked by the bourgeouis streak that runs through Barbelith - What sort of a message is, say, taking photographs of a flat you intend to live in going to send to the landlord? Ze's going to think you're trouble. Or possibly insane.

Find somewhere that seems ok, in an area with bars, cinemas etc, life after dark, don't sign anything too binding (a month's notice either way is ideal) and remember that whatever happens, you're almost certainly not going to be there for the rest of your life.

Treat the situation as the adventure it is! Live! Breathe!

I'd recommend a bedsit in a communal house - a solo flat might seem a bit much, there's all the hassle with bills, and so on. But if you could arrange renting a decent-sized room with gas, etc included - you'd have a monthly figure to pay, and that'd be it - then I think that might be a good way to go.

Also, it's bracing for a young man (as opposed to a burned-out, prematurely middle-aged drone) to bust out loose, in the manner of Iggy!

Good luck!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
09:21 / 19.01.08
Never share just with a couple, though, unless you want constantly to be reminded that you are by definition outvoted about everything, and that actually you will be watching Heartbeat, thanks.

This is solid advice.

Unless you're planning on writing a play for Radio 4, that is, in which case living with a couple might be the way to go. Especially if they're into rock cocaine and/or regular trips to Homebase. Ideally both. Whatever though, couples have a terrible habit of forgetting that there's anyone else in the room when they're having their discussions, so all you'd have to do is sit around in the background, making notes.

And possibly stirring the situation a bit if it gets too boring, on a dramatic level;

'She says that she washes the dishes more often than you do', for example, ought, if mentioned at the right time, to be enough to start a domestic equivalent of World War Three. Which would in turn mean that you'd be up for some sort of award at the Edinburgh festival, if you presented the edited highlights in the correct way.
 
 
Spaniel
11:33 / 19.01.08
You don't take the photos when you're checking the place out, you berk, you do it once you're in the door.

Nothing weird about ensuring that you don't lose hundreds of pounds. Fuck, almost everyone I know (everyone who isn't terminally lazy or possesses an ounce of sense) has been doing this little trick for the last few years. It's not like it's difficult or time consuming to take a bunch of digital photos, especially since digital cameras are so bloody ubiquitous these days.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:49 / 19.01.08
Live! Breathe! cautiously.

 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:29 / 19.01.08
You see, it's funny, because fat people are funny.
 
 
Axolotl
16:36 / 19.01.08
Lots of good advice above. Though I notice nobody's mentioned the downside of living alone: that you're on your own. It sounds stupid and obvious I know, but depending on your personality/ social life/ closeness to family living on your own can be quite an isolating experience. You can find yourself propping up the bar most nights rather than going home to your empty flat, talking to the fridge about your dinner choices or finding the longest social interaction you've had all weekend is talking to the nice man in the newsagents. As I say it depends on the person, but it's something to consider.
 
 
COG
16:52 / 19.01.08
I was serious about taking photos when viewing flats. After seeing a lot, it's hard to remember whether the one with the big living room had a freezer, or was that the one without the shower. It's like taking notes, only for the 21st century. And how this makes me bourgeois I do not know. I'm not denying I am mind you, I just don't know how this makes me so.
 
 
Spaniel
17:04 / 19.01.08
Ah right, I've never done that when looking for rental property, but I did do it when I was looking for somewhere to buy, mainly because we saw sooooooooooo many places.

Would probably take a camera along with me when looking for rental property these days, though.
 
 
Spaniel
17:05 / 19.01.08
Ax, I think that's implicit in a lot of the advice above, but I suppose it is worth stressing
 
 
Saturn's nod
09:02 / 20.01.08
A few more random thoughts about tenancy:

If the property has gas, (in the UK, legally) you ought to be presented with a gas safety certificate within 28 days of moving in. It is the property owners' responsibility to get yearly gas safety checks.

Also, try to get an emergency contact number for landlords/agents in case of things going drastically wrong with plumbing or heating outside office hours.

Once you have a valid tenancy agreement, the property is your home, and the landlord can't just wander in when they feel like it. They have the right to come and check that you are keeping it in good condition but you are entitled to insist that they make appointments with you for those inspections.

If you are working, don't share with full time students unless you have sorted out the council tax situation. Properties only tenanted by students are exempted from council tax, but if even one taxpayer moves in the property is no longer exempt but I think gets only a 25% discount on the council tax total (I'm a bit fuzzy on how the exact details but check if it's likely to be relevant.)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:35 / 20.01.08
You don't take the photos when you're checking the place out, you berk, you do it once you're in the door.

Ok, but possibly, then, it's even more disturbing.

I'm a landperson myself, so I know what I'm talking about; I run a list of slum tenements as long as your arm in various 'bad' areas of east London, and if anyone took a photo of any of them, I would, I think, be very angry. Possibly so much that I'd allow Colin (who, any way you cut it, is a tasty bloke) the free play of his powers.

I don't say this because Colin is a handsome man.

Although he does ok for himself, sexually - apparently, some people are into that sort of thing.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:50 / 20.01.08
Or is Colin a deranged monster? At £6.50 an hour, it's hard to assess the levels of his depravity, because, arguably, I'm not really paying him enough.

If I was Morrissey though, I'd write a song about him.
 
 
*
15:02 / 20.01.08
So I think we can conclude from this that if anyone does mind you taking photos, they are Granny, and you should run.
 
  
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