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Wrong-headed critic calls American literature "pretentious"

 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:11 / 22.08.01
From the Guardian:

quote:Is the United States a nation of "gullible morons" unable to tell the difference between good literature and pretentious nonsense? Do many literary bestsellers remain unread because they are too "intellectually intimidating", or because they are unreadable?
These are the questions prompted by a row in the literary pages of American newspapers on what constitutes good writing and whether reviewers are deliberately ignoring readable literature in favour of fashionable pretension.

Among the writers attacked are Don DeLillo, Cormac McCarthy, E Annie Proulx and David Guterson.

The row started with the publication n the latest Atlantic Monthly of A Reader's Manifesto, by Brian Myers. Subtitled "An attack on the growing pretentiousness of American literary prose", the essay described much of the canon of modern American literature as over-praised and, in some cases, meaningless.

Fifty years ago, he wrote, Christopher Isherwood and Somerset Maugham had been accepted as both popular storytellers and major literary figures, while today "any accessible fast-moving story written in unaffected prose is deemed to be 'genre fiction' - at best an excellent 'read' or 'page turner' but never literature with a capital L".

"Even the most obvious triteness is acceptable provided it comes with a postmodern wink." he argued. "What is not tolerated is a strong element of action - unless, of course, the idiom is obtrusive enough to keep suspense to a minimum."

He accused many of the leading figures in American literature of failings ignored by compliant critics because they all come from the same "cultural elite".

Myers quoted passages from literary bestsellers which he argued were meaningless when scrutinised. David Guterson, the author of Snow Falling on Cedars, "thinks it more important to sound literary than to make sense", he claimed.

Cormac McCarthy, author of the bestselling All the Pretty Horses, wrote "bad poetry formatted to exploit the lenient standards of modern prose", while Don DeLillo was guilty of "spurious profundity".

Myers concluded: "Whatever happens, the old American scorn for pretension is bound to reassert itself some day and, dear God, let it be soon."


There's more where that came from... I find this rather ridiculous and at the same time slightly worrying, for the following reasons:

1. I've not read any E Annie Proulx or David Guterson (anyone care to fill me in), but what bothers me more than the fact that I like both Don DeLillo and Cormac McCarthy, is the fact that neither of them strike me as being particularly inaccesible, esoteric or obtuse. Underworld may be a Big book dealing with Big themes, and it's deep and rich and clever, but it's not Ulysses: DeLillo's writing voice strikes me as fairly effortlessly readable, and he's writing about fairly well-established American obsessions. And Cormac McCarthy writes cowboy books: very good, poetic, achingly evocative cowboy books, but still...

2. What really bothers me about what this guy's saying however is the fear that American novels might deteriorate to the state of their British cousins if they abandonned what Myers calls their "pretentiousness". And that would be pretty dire indeed: more books about men shagging their secretary / women shagging their boss, anyone? Thought not...

But what do the American readers on the board think?

[ 22-08-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]
 
 
Cherry Bomb
12:22 / 22.08.01
Well, I think most Americans will be completely unaware of this, because this entails, of course, "reading."

I was unaware of this dispute. I would, however, agree that the average book critic is probably reviewing more "high art" books than the average of American Reader.

I guarantee you many books remain unread in the U.S. because they seem "too intimidating," etc. Why bother when the new John Grisham's out? Or why bother when there's "Uncle JOhn's Bathroom Reader?"
 
 
YNH
12:43 / 22.08.01
I thought E. Annie Proulx was Canadian. I also thought Grisham and King were still on the BestSeller lists. I haven't read Underworld because I hear it has a lot to do with Baseball. And Baseball, to quote Leela from Futurama, is as boring as mom and apple pie.

But... no, this guy's writing with a gimmick to sell books and get attention, like a good academic is supposed to do.

quote:Lee Siegel, a contributing editor to Harper's and the New Republic, described Myers as "the loudest proponent of phony populism who has appeared in some time ... Only Myers, standing alone in a nation of gullible morons, sees that the emperor has no clothes."

followed by:

Myers, who lives far from the corridors of publishing power in Los Lunas, New Mexico, said that he had anticipated that his essay would provoke a heavy response.

and the success:

The row is unlikely to abate. Myers, about whom little was known before, is being courted by agents, and a new edition of his attack is likely to be published, which will allow all the writers he has savaged to bite off and chew some of their critic.


It's not so much a debate over whether literature is dominated by pretention as a position that asserts that there are pretentious novels winning pretentious awards handed out by pretentious... get it?

It's bound to resonate with the folks who read the blockbuster fictions and give some academics and authors something to write articles about to pay the rent. But it sort of comes too late, you know. I've been to Uni, and would you believe it, they're discussing Seinfeld and Stephen King alongside Goo and Shakespeare.

And again, a sufficient derailment of inquiry into what we're buying instead of why.
 
 
casemaker
17:12 / 22.08.01
I don’t think it is pretentiousness. Just a difference in voice. I find that most of the currently acclaimed American writers are all dealing with the same basic topic. Young professional’s disenchantment with our culture.

Maybe it’s not all erudite. You could call it “genre fiction”. And it is fast moving. But it is the direction that our literature is going in, and a reflection of what’s really happening within these people. I’m not particularly proud of my “gullible moron” peers here in the states, but I think some of our modern writers are doing just fine.

Also: Most of the authors criticized aren’t even what “the kids” are reading. The only people I see reading Cormac McCarthy are over-weight soccer moms fanning at the beach. Maybe there’s hope for future American writers at least.

In my circles, DeLillo is the only one who is considered popular AND literary. Most young writers are being influenced by Brett Easton Ellis, Chuck Palahniuk and Hunter S. Thompson. All with books made into recent movies! Everybody wants to mimic these explosive styles while keeping an underlying element of intelligence in their plots.

I’ll agree with this though. DeLillo and these other guys are all “guilty of spurious profundity” every so often. It’s all about long lists now. Lists of prescription pills. Lists of fashion designers. Lists of illegal drugs. At times, White Noise reads like a department store inventory invoice.

Guilty pleasure: I really like Stephen King.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
11:10 / 23.08.01
Myer's Original Article as quoted above

quote:Everything written in self-conscious, writerly prose, on the other hand,is now considered to be "literary fiction"—not necessarily good literary fiction, mind you, but always worthier of respectful attention
than even the best-written thriller or romance.


First question: I think I know what Myer's means by self-conscious prose, but how would you define that to a non-reader? How would you define "pretentious" to a non-reader without sounding hopelessly anti-intellectual?

I've read a few of the authors quoted in the story, and while I enjoyed White Noise, the first 80 pages of Americana, and Libra immensely, Underworld didn't do much for me. The first 100-200 pages were written in beautiful, easy-to-read prose ( I read most of the novel standing on the subway in rush hour, if that's any indication) that I think Myers would be hard-pressed to object to. But then there are a few moments of reaching, of the writer making his presence known. the sentences that try to say too much.

quote:Like DeLillo, Auster knows the prime rule of pseudo-intellectual writing: the harder it is to be pinned down on any idea, the easier it is to conceal that one has no
ideas at all.


I'm currently reading Auster's "New York Trilogy" (my new subway book!), and while I think Myers and I would agree that Auster is a slavish Kafka imitator and tries to be far too clever, I think there is some merit in Auster's writing. His puzzles aren't toohard to figure out, and his endings seem to mean something, unlike other contemporary fiction writers (David foster Wallace, take a bow)

I don't know; I don't think that the pretentiousness Myers is talking about is peculiarly American. Look at Amis, Self, and Julian Barnes. Do they get away with it because they're British?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
11:27 / 23.08.01
I was just going to say... it strikes me that what Myers calls pretentious and self-conscious, I would think of as a relatively straightforward - rather than easy - read, and far less self-conscious than British literary fiction such as the works of Lawrence Norfolk and A. S. Byatt. The books which I think of as 'big American novels' - Wolfe, Roth, Chabon, DeLillo - are not short on ideas but are far less concerned with the actual mechanisms of writing.

Anyway, it's fairly clear that Myers is just pulling a stunt to get his name noticed - rather like Andrew Marr, who recently proclaimed the redundancy of the British novel in the light of the rise of narrative non-fiction because he wanted to get publicity for the non-fiction award he was chairing...
 
 
Saveloy
12:04 / 23.08.01
todd:
"Look at Amis, Self, and Julian Barnes. Do they get away with it because they're British?"

I'll stick up for Will Self here. Myers' definition of pretentiousness - and I think it's a good one, regardless of whether or not he's right about the authors he's attacking - is: "using prose which, by it's complicated or difficult nature would seem to express complicated or profound ideas but which, when analysed, makes no bloody sense." Although you might have to refer to a dictionary from time to time when reading Self, if you pull it apart it will make sense.

Getting back to the yanks, it would be interesting to check out the specific examples of nonsensical prose that Myers gives, has anyone got a link?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:54 / 23.08.01
While I can't find the specific books at hand, here's some links to first chapters online from some of the writers' works. The NY Times ones may require registration to access - don't think so, though.

Cities of the Plain by Cormac McCarthy
The Body Artist by Don DeLillo
East of the Mountains by David Guterson

I couldn't find any Proulx sample chapters, but I've only had a quick snoop.

There's a Salon article on the whole shebang here. It's worth reading, but I liked this bit: quote:Imagine what film reviews would be like if they were all written by cinematographers. To make "sentences" the primary criteria and focus of literary criticism is a lot like evaluating a movie in terms of its lighting and editing. Light, after all, is essential and central to the art of film, the stuff that movies are made of, and editing profoundly shapes the experience a film delivers. Without light, without editing, there is no movie, but when a film critic is addressing an audience wider than the community of filmmakers, lighting and editing seem like secondary, technical issues. Slate also have commentary, too.

[ 23-08-2001: Message edited by: Rothkoid ]
 
 
Ethan Hawke
13:00 / 23.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Saveloy:
todd:
"Look at Amis, Self, and Julian Barnes. Do they get away with it because they're British?"

I'll stick up for Will Self here. Myers' definition of pretentiousness - and I think it's a good one, regardless of whether or not he's right about the authors he's attacking - is: "using prose which, by it's complicated or difficult nature would seem to express complicated or profound ideas but which, when analysed, makes no bloody sense." Although you might have to refer to a dictionary from time to time when reading Self, if you pull it apart it will make sense.

Getting back to the yanks, it would be interesting to check out the specific examples of nonsensical prose that Myers gives, has anyone got a link?



I'm a fan of Will Self, but he is the perfect example of the type of thing Myers doesnt' like about literary fiction: Beautiful sentences about nebulous concepts.

W/R/T to the examples of the work Myers quotes, see the link in my post above. It has the entire original article. Also, in "Ideabox" on Slate.com yesterday, there were a bunch of links to responses to the article.
 
 
Saveloy
13:05 / 23.08.01
Thanks for pointing out the link, Todd (my 'duh!' for the day).
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:20 / 23.08.01
The actual article is eye-bleedingly bad, almost enough to make me sorry I started this thread and gave the moron the airtime... It's exactly as "what film reviews would be like if they were all written by cinematographers".
 
 
Saveloy
14:24 / 23.08.01
Flyboy>
I don't feel I can really comment on whether the guy is right or not, as I'm not familiar with much contemporary fiction (I must admit to finding some of the extracts he uses just as tedious and plain ugly as Myers says they are, but that's all I've got to go on) but just to satisfy my curiosity, can you expand on why you think the article so bad? Do you not think he has any point to make at all?

Rothkoid> Thanks for the links!

[ 23-08-2001: Message edited by: Saveloy ]
 
 
Ria
14:47 / 23.08.01
I have not read the article or the book.

I can make an analogy with posting flame bait on a board or e-list. beginning with "James Fennmore Cooper's Literary Offenses" by Mark Twain a sub-genre of sorts has existed taking down overrated or "overrated" writers or whoever. it makes for controversy and makes for a good "hook". (as someone said last night said in bodyspace about fiction which has a sensational angle.)

I don't read mainstream 'literary' fiction written nowadays so it doesn't matter to me.
 
 
YNH
15:24 / 23.08.01
quote:From Myers:
It has become fashionable, especially among female novelists, to exploit the license of poetry while claiming exemption from poetry's rigorous standards of precision and polish.


As he writes before finding his favorite sentences (a practice he later decries) from E. Annie Proulx and calling attention to catechresis. He then proceeds to conflate critical response with authorial laziness. And at one point bemoans that she has describe too many shades of brown to evoke one in the mind of the reader.

Funny thing is, everything Myers accuses Proulx seems borne of her speaking voice. Here's an interview.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
16:07 / 23.08.01
He seems to just be whining that his action-packed books aren't considered real literature.

He probalby got his feelings hurt when someone told him that RAINBOW SIX isn't a classic.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
22:37 / 26.08.01
<Gaiman> It has always been the perogative of children and fools to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the fool remains a fool, and the emperor remains an emperor. </Gaiman>
 
 
YNH
17:09 / 27.08.01
But Mister Gaiman, children do not remain children.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
23:48 / 27.08.01
True - present company excepted, of course.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:59 / 28.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Saveloy:
just to satisfy my curiosity, can you expand on why you think the article so bad? Do you not think he has any point to make at all?


Well, as [YNH] says, his tactic seems to consist of picking sentences apart in a manner that relies on viewing anything that favours impressionistic style over grammatical precision as noncey nonsense. He uses terms like "bad poetry" with the clear implication that poetry is somehow suspect and weirdy because it doesn't tell a Proper Story in Proper English like wot a novel should... He quibbles that White Noise (which I have to say is currently disappointing me a bit, but that's by the by) has a narrator who describes things he can't possibly know about, when to say that this is a well-worn commonplace of the novel is something of an understatement. I could go on, but I'm a bit sick of the bugger.

p.s. Gaiman said that? Oh dear. Oh dear oh dearie dear.

[ 28-08-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:35 / 28.08.01
Well, no. Morph said it in an issue of Sandman. Seriously - only a fictional person is ever going to be able to get that out without sniggering.
 
 
YNH
13:25 / 28.08.01
One of the other things I was off about was his lack of good poetic examples...

Morph guest starred in the Sandman?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:55 / 30.08.01
I fear someone else said it first.

Someone without the excuse of being fictional.

But I can't remember who.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
12:54 / 31.08.01
Yeah, all right, all right. That's just where I read it. This place isn't your personal Ped dispenser, you know...
 
 
HCE
21:31 / 18.02.04
Did this thread ever spawn another that deals with what literary criticism is, can be, or should be? I haven't been able to find such a thread. Any suggestions for search terms I could use? Thanks.
 
 
eddie thirteen
04:20 / 19.02.04
I (sort of) actually read this book, in a period over the summer where I was just kinda hoarding at the local library and reading anything that looked even remotely interesting (for about two weeks, I read a different P.K. Dick novel about every day, which I discovered is not the brightest idea insofar as one's mental stability is concerned). About half of it is an extended jeremiad in which the author defends the book; the other half is the book. The conclusion I drew was that he's one of those very smart, socially unskilled guys you sometimes find playing chess with dirty-looking old dudes in coffee shops, wearing a frighteningly intense look as he scans around the room for someone on whom to inflict his vast knowledge on every conceivable subject (mostly history and literature)...which isn't actually all that vast at all, is about 90% personal conviction based on something he read once or something but he's not really sure, but goddammit he's RIGHT. Just ask him; he'll tell ya. When they say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, this is the kind of guy they're talking about.

I was disappointed, then, because with a *lot* of knowledge, he might have been useful. There really is a severe dichotomy between what academe considers literature and what people really, like, read -- compare the contents of the New York Times Book Review to its bestsellers list sometime and you'll see what I mean. Right or wrong, skewering Don DeLillo is pointless, because -- I'm sorry -- who in the fuck reads Don DeLillo? Tens of thousands of people, maybe, and while that IS a lot, I'm willing to bet more people have read the work of, say, Mark Millar in the past thirty days. On the one hand, I find that extremely goddamned terrifying, because it means that many of us are really quite stupid. Or, if nothing else, that our literary taste buds could use a little sharpening. But on the other hand, if hundreds of thousands of people *are* reading something, what does it say about the literary "elite" that this work is going ignored by serious critics? This aspect of the highbrow/lowbrow argument, that the literary tastemakers are woefully out of touch with what real world readers are interested in reading, and that they perhaps even dismiss some worthwhile writing *because* it is popular -- an argument neglected in the book in favor of trying to deflate McCarthy, DeLillo, etc. -- seems to me to be quite relevant, and worth exploration.
 
 
ibis the being
14:28 / 19.02.04
Do many literary bestsellers remain unread because they are too "intellectually intimidating", or because they are unreadable?

All right, I'm confused. Maybe I'm a dumb American, but I think Myers' imprecise use of words is also to blame.

How many of these "literary bestsellers" can be remaining unread if they're bestsellers? Is he saying people buy them and just throw them on the coffeetable? - I think not, I think this is just a poorly written critique. In the same vein, how can he complain that novels with a lot of action are unpopular because they're not pretentious enough? Last time I looked, these books he claims are pegged as "genre novels" were slightly more popular than lit-fiction. But maybe he's whining because he wants the people he thinks of as pretentious snobs to read his genre novels? Well, shoot, I'd really like those pretentious assholes at the New Yorker to pick up something I've written too, they must be idiots.
 
 
eddie thirteen
16:32 / 19.02.04
Well, a lot of them really ARE just bought and thrown on the coffee table to impress visitors, I'm sure, but that's a bit difficult to prove without forcing literate yuppies to write book reports within four weeks of purchase (a movement I personally encourage). In essence -- and this part of the book I do agree with -- what the guy is saying is that there is Literature, wherein (mostly) academics write books that only appeal (mostly) to other academics, who agree that the first academic is indeed a stronger example of what a true artist should be than that other guy who just writes books that a whole shitload of people actually read and stuff, and so the academics write reviews of each other that amount to cliquish reach-arounds, and no one outside of their circle especially cares, until and unless someone who is NOT part of the clique accidentally wanders into one of their cocktail parties or something and gets talked down to, whereupon that guy gets pissed off and writes The Reader's Manifesto.

And then there's little-l literature, which is basically all genre fiction and much non-plot-driven fiction that's about people the average human actually finds interesting to read about, and so it sells a lot and so it *can't* be literature -- but it also sells a LOT, and so is more meaningful to 90% of the reading population than most anything called Literature.

So...it basically depends upon what you mean by "popular." I have to say, though, if I were writing hacky books about spies or vampires or something and they sold three million copies, I probably wouldn't give a shit what some English prof who fancies himself the next James Joyce said about me.
 
 
eddie thirteen
16:41 / 19.02.04
Um, quickly covering my ass, for the sake of British fellow 'lithers, what I mean is "instructors OF English." Not, um, professors who happen to BE English, whose opinions are as valid as anyone else's, as long as they agree with mine.
 
 
HCE
22:25 / 20.02.04
The way I would always pitch Phil Dick to people who turned up their noses as genre fiction was that he wrote 'real' literature which used the devices of his chosen genre as tools for exploring very big-L literary questions, like what is knowable, how do we know it, and how much is what we know a part of what we are as people? I haven't had anybody try to make a case that he is a lousy writer, but I always feel a bit frustrated in my attempts to explain what sets him, in my opinion, so far above other writers in the genre (not to mention other writers outside it).

Same thing with Dennis Cooper -- how do you explain why he's so good to somebody who doesn't see it? I don't mean how do you describe it, but how explain it? I am quite certain that he can really write, and is not just a gimmicky shock-tactic hack. It's the problem I have with all criticism, as it seems to always boil down to personal opinion, and at that point it becomes about the critic. Is the critic a person of dubious motives (desire for personal gain or social recognition)? Does the critic present his opinion in a credible tone (coherent, disinterested, knowledgable) and why are qualities like fragmentedness, passion, and naivete necessarily destructive to credibility?

The word pretentious is a good example -- my knee-jerk reaction is to assume that anybody who dubs something pretentious simply was made to feel stupid by it and is striking back at an imagined slight.

Again, I apologize if there is already a thread for this, I'd be happy to move my comments if somebody will point me in the right direction.
 
  
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