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The 1990s. How was reading comics in the nineties for you?

 
 
doctorbeck
12:23 / 07.01.08
i stopped reading comics with the last issue of watchmen and didn't start again until the ABC line got going so missed the boom years of the 1990s, i've started catching up in trades from my local libraries and realised that with the boom came some very strange comics indeed and what looks like a whole new world or weirdly proportioned women, badass heroes and die cut holographic covers.

plus more X-books than i would have thought possible.

so i was wondering if it was possible to consider this to be a psecific era amongst the big 2 and their competitors (and i am talking mainly about superhero stuff here i suppose) and what you all thought of it? also was the last GM arc of the NXM a pastiche of 90s art and plot lines?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:30 / 07.01.08
It wasn't all bad; the Alan Davis Excalibur years were in the full flush and bloom of the Nineties. There was always a weird tension between it and the rest of the X-Books, it seemed to absorb X-book melodrama and convert it into parodies of itself...
 
 
Aertho
20:49 / 07.01.08
/agree Davis' Excalibur

I wasn't anything but a X-Zombie, and had subsciptions to all of them. I know Davis gets a bad rap, but at the time, the team that grew to include mysterious Cerise, Kylun, Feron, Micromax and a certain extent Inspector Dai Thomas
and Emelia Witherspoon, was the jewel of the bunch. Solid crisp art, consistent action, good stories. It's a shame they gave it to Lobdell.
 
 
Char Aina
21:18 / 07.01.08
Whenever i think of the 90s I think of Thunderstrike.

He started as a Thor fill-in(I believe that was in the late eighties), and then progressed to being a sort of half-Thor Spidey knockoff.



Wisecracking in every panel and either outlcassed or dealing with low-rents, he was the plucky everyman who just had to do what was right. All this, of course, while holding down his day job and trying hang on to a semblance of family life.
He even had a way of swinging through the city behind his slung mace that looked a bit like...well, y'know.

Everything about him (his lightning bolt earring, pony tail, leather gear and his 'does-everyone-have-one-now?' avengers membership) screams to me of the era. He also reminds me of a time when I was dumb enough to give money to Marvel for such pap.

All he needs is a few pouches and a bionic eye and he'd be perfect.

He was killed two years after he was given his own title.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:28 / 07.01.08
And at the same time Vertigo was starting up, and producing some actually interesting work - Shade, Enigma, The Sandman if you really must. Outside the collector bubble and the cash-in events - the Death of Superman, the Breaking of the Bat, X-Force and so on - some decent stuff was getting done.

The last arc wasn't a pastiche of the 90s Image style - it was drawn by Marc Silvestri, one of the major proponents of the "Image style". People still like this stuff.
 
 
Char Aina
21:40 / 07.01.08
Yeah, the vertigo stuff was among the more exciting things in my regular bag of comics in those days.
I do remember reading an awful lot of crap from their end of comics then too, though. I bought waaaaay more than was worth my money generally, but it wasn't all superheroics.

The grungified revamp of House of Secrets, for example. Or the ultimately quite boring Seekers Into the Mystery from DeMatteis.
 
 
simulated stereo
22:33 / 07.01.08
Other than Batman I really didn't read anything else. I was unreasonably neophobic back then and I missed a lot but I'm in the midst of catching up, especially with the Image/Wildstorm books.
 
 
Augury
00:34 / 08.01.08
Yeah, the 90s were when i started reading comics, mostly x-books (ooh! The Phalanx!). But there was some cool stuff, like The Inhumans by Jenkins and Lee (97). That was awesome, cool art and a good story.

I also started reading Strangers in Paradise at this time, and it hadn't entered its meandering "Crap! I wrote myself into a corner" phase. I bought and read "St Swithins Day" on the day i got fired from a job - greta comic, wrong day to read it. I think i may have read some Vertigo in the late 90s.

Oh, and also Young Heroes in Love and X-Men 2099 - I really enjoyed both of those.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:41 / 08.01.08
X-Men 2099 was oddly good, probably my favourite of the abortive 90s 2099 books-- at least for the first while. After they founded the X-Nation and Lim left (for some reason, I loved Ron Lim as an adolescent sentence fragment), it all went a bit shit. Which shouldn't be surprising.

Shade! Enigma! Most of the Vertigo stuff (and SiP) didn't really hit my radar until the early 2000s, so while it's Nineties, I associate it with a much different point in my life -- a second Nineties, a more mature Nineties (or a more pretentious one?).
 
 
Evil Scientist
06:56 / 08.01.08
Doom 2099! Age of Apocalypse! Maximum Carnage!

Seriously though.

The 90's were when I started to seriously read Marvel comics. I got into X-Men just after the Muir Island/Shadow King saga, when the teams split into two. At one point I was reading pretty much every X-title and Spider-title.

The quality reads were Peter David's run on X-Factor and Incredible Hulk. But I have to admit I have been buying the AoA collected sets due to chronic nostalgia for the sheer insanity of the X-titles back then.

Of course late 90's I started reading the usual Vertigo suspects (Preacher, Transmet, that silly one with the magikal fashion-terrorists).

I've still got a hankering for the massive ridiculous cross-overs of Marvel in the 90's. Spiderman's Return of the Sinister Six where everyone down to, and including, Sleepwalker turn up to rumble with the 'Six.

But Doom 2099, ahh, there was an impulse zone read.
 
 
Spaniel
08:37 / 08.01.08
The Invisibles, anyone? Grant's JLA?

I think the problem I have with looking at an entire decade is that it tempts one to homogenise and reduce a very wide variety of work. Sure, the Ninties was the decade of Image with it's huge sexmuscle clawgun people, and Image was sadly (perhaps entertainingly now that I have some distance) much imitated, but it was by no means the only game in town.

My main thought when I think of Ninties is that, like most decades, it lasted 10 whole years - a really rather large amount of time. I was 14 on January the 1st 1990, and 25 when when the decade closed. I quite literally grew up over the course of the decade and as a consequence of which my reactions to and feelings about the books of that decade are deeply tied to my personal journey and identity, so if I wanted to talk about the Ninties as a decade I'd have to plumb those depths, something I don't feel inclined to do at the moment.
 
 
unbecoming
10:22 / 08.01.08
I think it would be interesting to consider the comics of the nineties with specific focus on creator's rights.

I Think it is Scott McCloud who points out that the advent of the more “literary” graphic novel format (DKR, Watchmen) in the eighties brought with it an increased emphasis on the names of the writers and artists responsible for the work.
With this in mind, the formation of image comics becomes less about the stylistic devices of the artists and more about the way in which those artists were moving units for Marvel on the value of their name and distinctive styles, yet were only being payed per page, with few royalties.
Unfortunately proportioned artwork aside, these artists recognised that their style of drawing could sell, even if it was removed from the established big characters of the big 2.

Also, the Vertigo range was able to provide a space for creator owned projects and the decade saw many more of such projects enjoying more popularity than in earlier decades >citation needed<.
I’m thinking about: Sandman, Preacher, Hellboy, The invisibles, Sin city… and I suppose the whole America’s Best Comics range is a pretty good example of a creator owned enterprise also.

It’s interesting that simultaneously there seems to have been an increase in the amount of universe altering crossover stories in the Marvel and DC universes such as The Broken Bat, Maximum Carnage etc. since these seem much more character /continuity orientated than Authors/freedom of expression in terms of selling points.
 
 
doctorbeck
12:47 / 08.01.08
so the big events of 90s comicdom were the rise of creator owned / adult themed stuff, some of which was badass and some of which was the vertigo goth line, plus the Image stuff, i've seen enough of it to get the idea, and the massive crossover event. and sometime into all this the comics bubble burst and sales tanked. any idea why this might have been the case given that there may have been some real quality comics out there?
 
 
Spaniel
13:01 / 08.01.08
The bubble burst because the vast majority of books put out by the big 3 were completely shit, and only managed to sell at all because people were collector crazy for a while there. Once people realised they weren't going to make a zillion dollars on eXtreme EXTREME FORCE #1, people stopped buying the books.

And Marvel, who were putting out close to million different x-books a month, went bankrupt.

Or something like that
 
 
unbecoming
13:31 / 08.01.08
perhaps the comics bubble burst because the proliferation of affordable new media, tv, film, computers, consoles, internet meant that they weren't particularly suited to the tastes of the kids anymore? Instead being a marginalised passtime, the industry stuck having to keep popular characters in a rigid status quo to placate the sensibilities of long term collector-fans.

may not be true, but it sounds good- i'm quite interested in delving more into the social and economic factors that govern the production of comics- has anyone got any good info?

The early nineties always seem interesting to me because the late eighties seemed to be a time of hope for the medium- new, intelligent and mature graphic novels took a darker approach- but the new comics that arrived in the nineties, most notably the image stable, appropriated this new approach aesthetically only- creating qa "dark age" of comics that was essentially about the grim n gritty muscles n guns approach rather than the psychological genre deconstruction of DKR and Watchmen.
 
 
grant
13:51 / 08.01.08
the big 3

A 90s invention.

I think Eclipse was still around in 1990, and the first Vertigo books came in 1991. Image came out a bit after that. I'm not sure Dark Horse was around then - I'd guess it started in the late 80s, but could be wrong. Grendel was put out by Comico in the mid-80s, which had folded by 1990, hadn't it? Or was it around into 1992 or so?

That might be a defining feature of the decade - the idea of THREE comic companies, rather than two big ones and a bunch of little short-lived indies.

sometime into all this the comics bubble burst and sales tanked. any idea why this might have been the case given that there may have been some real quality comics out there?

Well, not only was a lot of "collectible" crap put out there, but it was also carefully released only through hard-to-find and outsider-unfriendly comic shops. As opposed to bookstores, where Sandman TPBs were sold.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
15:25 / 08.01.08
The nineties for me was very much divided into late nineties and early nineties. Sometime around 1990 I defected from being a Marvel kid to a DC fan pre-teen. What I loved about DC from 1990 to around 93 was that the incredible burst of creative energyand variety that had burst out of DC following the crisis was not nearly spent - I could pick up half a dozen different DC books and they'd all be offering completely different stories and styles, and most of them would be pretty decent, from the Giffen/Dematteis JLI to George's Animal Man, to Messner-Loebs Flash and beyond. So much variety.

The later nineties was something different for me, and perhaps in some ways more homogenous, but still belonging very much to DC. That was my Vertigo period. At one point in the mid nineties I was buying pretty much everything Vertigo put out and very little else. At that point in my life as well as enjoying Shade and Doom Patrol and Hellblazer etc I actually liked the ongoing Black Orchid book, the grungey House of Secrets, and even Jerry Prossers Animal Man, to name but three. That period went on till about 96 or 97, when I found that Vertigo wasn't putting out many book I was that into anymore, and that as I student I couldn't really afford them anyway, and prefered to spend what little cash I did have on drink and CDs.

Beyond that the only other comic that was really important to me during the nineties was Peter David's Hulk, which had already been going for years when the nineties started. But what I do find interesting is how my relationship to the book changed as the decade went on. At the begining of the nineties I was eleven, about to turn twelve - and I despised Peter David and his Hulk work, and I really hated the boring Grey, smart Hulk. As I recall I barely understood much of what went on in the book, and that what I did understand I mostly found boring as hell - but Hulk was the first book I'd started collecting back in '85 and I was damned if I was going to drop it. Then as the decade wore on a funny thing happened. Sometime around 93, 94, I found I quite liked Peter David's Hulk, and sometime after that realized it was me thathad changed, not the book. By ninety-eight when he departed it was the only book I was still finding the money to buy, and I was incredibly sad to see him go.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:29 / 18.01.08
As much as the mainstream books struggled, the Vertigo line alone arguably put out more quality books than we'd seen in the whole of comics history beforehand. The books that define the '90s' in comicdom (i.e. X-Force, Spawn, etc.) were not good, and don't hold up, but books like The Invisibles, Sandman, From Hell and other creator owned opuses really changed the idea of what could be done with comics.

It's a lot like the change TV went through recently, where HBO came along and opened up a whole new style of storytelling. I've always seen Vertigo as the HBO of comics, they might not always do great stuff, but they're about as reliable as you can get. And, they're the only big two imprint that has been successful without doing superhero comics. They started out with some superhero stuff, but at this point, they're almost exclusively creator owned, non-superhero material.
 
 
Mark Parsons
05:20 / 22.01.08
I stopped reading superhero comics and stuck with WEIRDO issues (kept in print), The Usual Indie Suspects (CLowes, Bagge, Brown, Seth, Doucet) and VERTIGO, with Invisibles as the Big Cheese Ongoing of the Decade. Got lured back to DCU by Morrison's JLA, which I recall feeling resentful towards ("What, I have to follow Grant HERE?") but was won over within a page or two. Other than Moore's SUPREME, I missed out in the whole Image/Post Image Companies thing.
 
 
doctorbeck
08:07 / 22.01.08
i just read alan moores complete wildc.a.t.s over the weekend, and supreme not long before that. was surprised that he did something as 90s-tastic as wildcats, with its infeasibly proportioned women, hard assed heroes and imprint wide crossover storyline, though it as cometent for all that.

did the indies (clowes et al) boom and bust in the 90s too?
 
 
unbecoming
08:44 / 22.01.08
Wasn't Moore's involvement with Image a kind of political statement prompted by his artistic differences with DC about the Watchmen rights?

I've read that after the lucrative success of TMNT there was a kind of black and white boom, followed by a bust but I don't have much more information than that.
 
 
sleazenation
11:26 / 22.01.08
Well, the B&W indie comics was more of a late 80s pre-Image thing, but nontheless worth talking about.

Did Martin Wagner EVER finish Hepcats?
 
  
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