BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Njal's Saga - and hopefully others...

 
 
Kit-Cat Club
21:50 / 07.03.02
So I'm in the middle of Njal's Saga (or the Saga of Burnt Njal, which seems to be a common alternative title, though it does rather give the ending away...) and it is bloody great. I was prompted to read it by the Iliad discussion - thought it would be interesting to have a look at an epic from a different culture... Now, of course Njal's saga is much much later than the Greek, but it is interesting to see the similarities - and, given that the author seems to have borrowed from and been influenced by other literature, they must be less than coincidental. One I particularly noted is the repetitive use of standard descriptions of sequences of events - very effective here too.

But the saga is wonderful in its own right, and really I just wanted to recommend it to everyone. The action is a lot more diffuse than that in the Iliad, and the structure is a lot more linear than that of the Odyssey, but the characterisation is great. And there's a lot of interesting guff about personal animal spirits and prophetic dreams... and I love the way they keep riding off to the Thing. Above all, I think, I am enjoying the tone - it is mordant and faintly sardonic, which I think is perhaps my reading of the style more than anything else - though the translator says (in his notes) that he has tried to be as true to the original style of the Icelandic as possible...

Gunnar saw a red tunic at the window and he made a thrust with his halberd and hit Thorgrim in the waist. The Norwegian lost his grip on his shield, his feet slipped and he fell off the roof and then walked to where Gizur and the others were sitting on the ground.
Gizur looked at him and spoke: 'Well, is Gunnar at home?'
Thorgrim answered, 'Find out for yourselves, but I've found out one thing - his halberd's at home.'
Then he fell down dead.


I dunno... it's so deadpan...

Any other notes or recommendations?

[ 08-03-2002: Message edited by: Kit-Cat Club ]
 
 
odd jest on horn
10:09 / 08.03.02
well you could try Halldor Laxness. independent people is great. it's very much the same tone, even though it's a few centuries younger.

what do you think about all the legal maneuver crap? it's what made njals saga such a pain in school for me. i just skipped those parts mostly
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
10:26 / 08.03.02
Ha, well, I don't mind that so much, because I find the tension between the legal mechanisms at the Thing and the bloodfeuding everywhere else quite interesting... and also the way in which people get in trouble because they don't abide by the settlements made at the Thing (Gunnar refusing to go into exile), or other people undermine them for them (like Bergthora and Hallgerd mucking up Gunnar and Njal's settlements). I was also amused by the way in which some of the characters grandstand to get out of having to abide by an unfavourable decision - Hrut challenging Mord Gigja to a duel...

... but I can quite see how it would have been tedious to have to study the legal bits in detail at school. I'm lucky - I get to charge through it and skim the parts I can't get to grips with (the genealogical introductions for each character - so confusing).
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
11:56 / 11.03.02
Still going on this one, and it is getting better - I'm up to where they're converting the Icelanders to Christianity & it is most entertaining - there seems to be very little engagement with the essentials of the Christian faith; the argument is more like 'this faith is better than the old one', with no reason given. About the only real reason for conversion I have seen so far is Thangbrand telling someone that St Michael is so merciful that when he wieghs deeds the good ones count for more than the evil ones. Apart from that it is very much conversion by force - walloping people until they convert or die. Thangbrand = first exponent of muscular Christianity?

I was wondering how this relates to what is known of what actually happened - can anyone enlighten me?

And again, which one should I read next? I found a copy of Laxdaela Saga in a second-hand bookshop and it seems to cover some of the same events or personalities - Hoskuld Dala-Kollson, Hrut and so on - but I quite fancy Orkneyinga Saga as well...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:23 / 12.03.02
Well - finished the bugger. It is fantastic - though the bit after Njal gets burnt seems to go on rather (and why send Flosi etc off to Ireland? So that Kari gets to look noble by following them around, picking them off?). I thought the business about Mord's lawsuit was funny though... but he should have got his comeuppance...

Surely someone out there must have read some of these? Hell-ooo?
 
 
alas
01:18 / 16.03.02
in college many years ago i read "graenlendinga saga" and "eirik's saga" which have the bits about travelling to North America. I still have the book, so I'm skimming it at the moment. What amuses me is how powerful the women are--they tell off their husbands and threaten to divorce them. When the Icelandic settlement is being attacked by "skraelings" (North American Native people), one of the women is said to have "pulled one of her breasts out of her bodice and slapped it with a sword. The Skraelings were terrified at the sight of this and fled back to their boats and hastened away."

Take that, Xena!

[ 16-03-2002: Message edited by: alas ]
 
 
alas
01:27 / 16.03.02
oh, and what about good old Beowulf? I've read the much-praised Seamus Heaney translation, but also an essay by a woman who argues that his translation is hard on the female characters in the work... But it's clearly worth reading, especially re: the clash between Christianity and traditional beliefs. And I love Heaney's intro.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
11:47 / 22.03.02
Don't know how I missed this for so long... whoops. Anyway, I have Heaney's Beowulf and haven't managed to read it yet, so perhaps that would be a good idea. Even if someone I know did tell me it was rubbish (was it you, Haus?).

I think those sagas you were talking about, alas, are in a compilation called something like 'Vinlander Saga', so might see if I can find that too. When I get paid.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:30 / 23.03.02
Funny you should bring this up- I studied it at college, and recently got the urge to read it again so borrowed it off a friend (but have yet to reread the bugger).
We also read "Hrafnkel's Saga", which I don't remember so well, but I think it was pretty good too (though shorter).
Anyone ever read "The Ice-Shirt" by William T Vollman? It's all about the discovery of Vinland, and is written in the style of the sagas.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
10:38 / 12.08.03
Well - after a year and a half, I have started to make inroads into Beowulf - I have a feeling that I am skimming the surface rather, because it seems to be going down very easily. But perhaps this is the translation. It doesn't go into a great deal of depth about the battles with Grendel and Grendel's mother, which surprised me - I thought it would dwell on the heroic struggle, blood, guts etc. Perhaps I am reading it incorrectly.

the clash between Christianity and traditional beliefs

It doesn't seem to me to be a clash so much as a mish-mash (yet) - I think it's fascinating the way Christianity is integrated with older ideas of kinship bonds and heroic honour. God is frequently invoked as the ultimate arbitrator of conflict, but the hero is responsible for seeking out glory to win renown for his name, as there is nothing to do in life but wait for it to end (this is stated quite explicitly somewhere).

I noted with particular interest the description of the origins of Grendel:

...Grendel's mother,
monstrous hell-bride, brooded on her worngs.
She had been forced down into fearful waters,
the cold depths, after Cain had killed
his father's son, felled his own
brother with a sword. Branded an outlaw,
marked by having murdered, he moved into the wilds,
shunned company and joy. And from Cain there sprang
misbegotten spirits, among them Grendel,
the banished and accursed...


I thought it was interesting that, just as Unferth is dishonoured for having killed his kinsmen, so the origin of the monsters is not with Satan but with the fratricide of Cain - an clear example of the taboos of the old kinship bonds.
 
 
Secularius
18:56 / 12.08.03
...little engagement with the essentials of the Christian faith; the argument is more like 'this faith is better than the old one', with no reason given.

That's pretty much how it was and how it still is in Iceland. There was this guy, Þorgeir Ljósvetningagoði, who lay under a pelt for 24 hours or so to silently meditate on this issue, before he made his big decision. Finally he called together the Althingi and convinced them that all Icelanders should be christened and that Christianity was now the official religion of Iceland. This was decided upon by the Althingi, probably because of Þorgeir's persuasiveness, out of fear of nationwide warfare or of total disassociation from Norway. Or so the story goes.

Anyhow, the reasons were purely political. There were also some conditions for this aggreement; people were still allowed to worship the old gods secretly (i. "blóta"), and dispossession of newborns and eating of horse meat was still allowed.

So there isn't much of a tradition for devout Christians here in Iceland, and people are still pretty indifferent about religious issues. It is normal for people to hold all sorts of superstitious beliefs, such as believing in fairies and elves, fate, psychics and precognitive dreams, and still consider themselves Christians. Few people ever bother to go to church, but still consider themselves Christians. It's more of a tradition than a serious religion, and still as meaningless as in the beginning. But it's still our national church and 86 % of the people are officially registered as Christians. It's such hypocrisy!
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
20:58 / 12.08.03
But I rather like it anyway - sounds rather like an even less dogmatic version of the C of E in some ways... Thanks for the info, I love the Thorgeir story - do you have any more like that? Any recommendations?
 
 
Grand Panjandrum of the Pointless
22:52 / 12.08.03
KCC- I just had a look at the OE of the bit you quote and Heaney's translation here is a lot more biblical in tone than the original warrants. 'monstrous hell-bride' is actually 'female adversary,' and 'misbegotten spirits' is just 'fateful spirits/creatures'. So your point seems to hold stylistically as well.
Have you read the Wanderer? it's probably the most beautiful OE poem & another clear case of a poem really about heroic ethics with a token bit of Christianity stuck on the end. Also the well-known Venomous Bede, who mentions King Raedwald, who couldn't decide between paganism and xtianity, and so worshipped them both at the same altar.
 
 
Secularius
23:15 / 12.08.03
The story of the Christianisation of Iceland is told in Íslendingabók (e. Icelanders' Book) written by Ari fróði Þorgilsson (Ari "frodi" Thorgilsson) (1067-1148). It is supposed to be historically accurate but scholars disaggree whether he told the exact occurrences or dramatised them to tell a good story. Don't know if it's available in English but here is the chapter on the events of year 1000, in Icelandic.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
21:52 / 13.08.03
S of Z, thank you very much. It may have appeared in Penguin or an academic translation at some point - most things do - I shall keep my eyes peeled. I don't really feel strong enough to grapple with the Icelandic yet, but maybe one day I will...

Great Panjandrum - I haven't read The Wanderer, no - in fact my chief memory of it is of my contemporaries at university struggling with it (though I believe it was not as unpopular as The Dream of the Rood). I will have a bash at it on your rec., though, when I get paid... though again, I fear I might not be up to OE and will have to look for a translation. The Venomous Bede I have somewhere at home so it might be a while before I can have a look...

The more I read of this (and I am going to have to go back and have another crack at it when I have digested it and read the introduction) the more peculiar the religious aspect of it is. The writer, it seems to me, has a deep sense of the presence of God in the world, and yet this version of the Christian God governs the physical world (the seasons) and events (he ordains the outcome of battles, he is able to prevent people entering the ring-hoard if he thinks them unworthy) but appears not to have any of the spiritual trappings one associates with Christianity - all that sort of stuff is still bound up, as we've said, with warrior's honour, kinship, gift-giving, and so on. My history is at fault here - I just don't know anything about the period - so this stuff is probably thoroughly old hat to the rst of you, but I think it's fascinating. More!
 
 
angel
06:56 / 14.08.03
KCC - When I was doing historical re-enactment back in Oz we did a fair bit on Vikings, due to the fact that they made up a large part of the two cultures I participated in - 1) Byzantine culture (Vikings were one of the dominant peoples in the Varangian Guard(emperor's guard)) and also Norman culture (Normans were Danes to start off with). An interesting note about the Christianisation of the Vikings is that apparently when presented with Jesus and told that he was the son of god, a number of people said "cool, he's just like Thor (son of Odin)". Those trying to convert them were not happy about this, but they could not shift this perception that Thor and Jesus were one and the same.

How is this all relevant? Well, people were none too keen to give up their gods, particularly when they could see no good reason to do so ("Thor is just Jesus with another name so why do we have to give him up?"), and so they continued worshiping Thor covertly. You may have seen an object, quite often a pendant, shaped like a equi-sided cross but with a dragon's head at one end. This is called a Thor's hammer and was cleaver enough to allow the Thor worshippers to continue with their old god whilst externally appearing to follow the new path (ie wearing the "Christian" cross, apparently the unequal cross we see most often these days is a much later tradition and originally any kind of cross was acceptable). Hmmm, not sure if I have expressed myself well here, but next time I see you I will try to explain better, and with hand gestures, somehow it seems to help.
 
 
Grand Panjandrum of the Pointless
22:32 / 14.08.03

Angel- the cross thing is interesting- do you know if it’s mentioned in any sagas anywhere? Or even histories? How on earth did they manage to link Thor with Jesus, he was into smiting things, none of that love-your-neighbour crap for him. I blame bloody Thangbrandr going about killing people. Typical missionary.
Jesus=Baldr makes a hell of a lot more sense.

KCC-'The Wanderer' is set as an obligatory first year text in many UK Eng. Lit degrees, (mostly because of syllabuses copying Oxford). Therefore a lot of people reading it at uni do so under duress and don't like it- fair enough, since most English undergrads come up with the expectation of reading modern prose, not tenth century verse. If you like this kind of stuff enough to read Beowulf voluntarily, then you will probably get on with it.
The OE in 'The Wanderer' is hard(ish)- if you want to read it in the original, buy A guide to Old English Mitchell and Robinson, now in about the zillionth edition, so secondhand copies should abound- it has a good glossary and bits of easy prose to cut your teeth on. OE is pretty easy if you know at least one other Germanic language. The Wanderer is one of the most beautiful, melancholic poems in the English language. I've always thought it speaks much more clearly to the twenty-first century than a lot of classic eng. lit.- mostly because the poet knows that he lives in a world of grey morals without a God, but still thinks honour is important (if you ignore the bit at the end that was probably tacked on by a bastard monk). It’s like Raymond Chandler in many ways.
One of the best essays ever written on Beowulf was JRR Tolkien's 'Beowulf- the Monsters and the Critics', which says some interesting things about the insertion of Christ into the Germanic world view, as well as rubbishing people who don't like monsters.

As for Old Icelandic, don't whatever you do start with Ari Thorgilsson,- I've only done a little of his prose but I found it (as a non-Icelander) much harder than Njals Saga or Snorri's Edda. Ari is not, so far as I know, translated into English by anyone in any edition currently published, though there must be a dusty old translation lying round somewhere. (There may be extracts in that 'Sagas of Icelanders' book that came out about a year back).
If you want to learn Icelandic, you need Gordon's 'Intro. to Old Norse', which is shit and old (Gordon taught Tolkien, for gods' sake) The glossary is useless, and the grammar presumes a thorough education in nineteenth century philology, but there is nothing else, the market for 'Teach Yourself Old Norse' textbooks not having picked up much since 1927. Nevertheless, it is worth the effort.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
11:04 / 15.08.03
It’s like Raymond Chandler in many ways.

OK, now I'm totally sold on this... and actually your entire post makes me want to take up learning Old English and Old Norse and possibly some Celtic languages and... I should have entered for Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic, I knew it. I can probably find a translation of Ari Thorgilsson here without too much difficulty, but perhaps it's not one for home reading. As for OE, I have a smattering of Dutch and German but have always been a bit useless with cases, and it has cases, doesn't it? Perhaps it is time to conquer the fear.

I have now read the intro to the Heaney Beowulf and I definitely need to reread it. Thought it was interesting - in the light of the Christianity discussion above, and this was something I had totally failed to pick up - that the poem was written by a Christian in England, but recounting the heroic actions of the Scandinavian heroes - so the mix of the old heroic mores and the new religion must have had considerable longevity.
 
 
Secularius
13:22 / 15.08.03
If you want to learn Icelandic, you need Gordon's 'Intro. to Old Norse', which is shit and old (Gordon taught Tolkien, for gods' sake)

Why would she/he have to read some old fart's intro to Old Norse in order to learn Icelandic? I never learned any intro to Old Norse and I can read Brennu-Njals Saga perfectly well. Modern Icelandic is that similar to Old "Norse". There's plenty of more accessible books available on the Icelandic language. Why don't you come over here and study Icelandic For Foreigners?
 
 
Grand Panjandrum of the Pointless
18:30 / 15.08.03
Fair enough, S of Z; it was some years ago when I studied it, and back then Gordon was the only Icelandic book on sale in the UK that had any saga or eddic texts in. I didn't realize things had changed.
 
 
Grand Panjandrum of the Pointless
14:05 / 16.08.03
KCC- I wouldn't get too excited about OE- there are only a few good poems other than Beowulf and none of them is longer than about 300 lines. But they are beautiful. The rest of the surviving OE text corpus is mostly monks going on about sin and Vikings and the unlikely exploits of Anglo-Saxon Saints, who have names with too many 'ths' in, such as Aethelthryth. Some are amusingly fire and brimstone/surreal tho'. Then there is the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, which, in its later years at least, reads like a score table for a Top Northern Ravager of the Ninth Century competition.
Icelandic is more worthwhile, given that there is more decent stuff to read, but is harder than OE.
Various people have commented on the similarity between some episodes in Beowulf and Grettir's Saga (very much worth reading, if you haven't already). Mitchell and Robinson's shiny new edition of Beowulf has the relevant bits in back in translation, as well as some interesting articles on the archaeology.
 
 
Secularius
23:08 / 16.08.03
I suppose you've all read the Poetic Edda (i. Eddukvæði). It was my favorite of the old books I had to read in high-school/pre-college (age 16-19). Especially Hávamál.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
10:58 / 18.08.03
S of Z, I fear that I am far far too impoverished to make it to Iceland, even with the Icelandic of Foreigners carrot dangled so temptingly in front of my nose... but it's a lovely idea. Maybe when I've made my million as a hard-nosed businesswoman (in fuchsia power-suit).

Grand Panj'm - can't look at names like Aethelthryth, etc. without thinking of the Wave of Eggkings (Eggbeard, Eggberd, Eggfroth et al, not to mention the wave of miserable Eggdeaths by which they perished. But I concur that the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles are unlikely to be quite what I'm looking for.

The only saga I've read is Njal's Saga, but as it is payday this Wednesday I think a trip to Blackwell's might be in order, so I'll have to see what they have (probably most of them, they're usually quite good on literary texts). I go for Penguin Classics by instinct, is this the right thing to do or are there better translations?

Haven't read the Edda, but I certainly intend to do so at some point. I have a reading list as long as my arm at the moment though, so it may be some time before I have the opportunity.
 
 
Grand Panjandrum of the Pointless
17:56 / 19.08.03
KCC-Most of the translations available in the UK are Penguins- they translate most of the major sagas except Grettir's Saga, done by someone else who I forget, but usually available in major academic bookshops. They also do a couple of the historical sagas from Snorri Sturluson's Heimskringla,- including the saga of Haraldr Harthrada, who nearly became king of England in 1066. This contains some good stuff about his exploits in Sicily fighting for Byzantium.
I couldn't honestly say I could tell whether they are the best translations- but the guy who taught me tended to recommend the Penguins in the rare cases where there was a choice. They are also a lot easier to get than other translations.

There are two eddas- the Prose Edda by Snorri Sturluson, and the Poetic Edda to which S of Z refers above. One is a prose narrative of Norse legends, together with a treatise on norse poetry, and the other a collection of ancient mythological poems- there are two translations both OUP - one paperback and slim (Larrington) one two volumes long with more notes than anyone should ever need (Dronkke) The second has the poems in the original.

- S of Z- I never studied Havamal, but I did think Voluspa was beautiful, particularly:

Sol ter sortna
Sigr fold i mar
Hverfa af himni
Heithar stjornur
Leikr har hiti
Af himin sjalfan

(Sun turns black
Earth sinks into sea
Bright stars
turn from heaven
High flames strike
Against heaven itself)

The idea of stars turning from heaven, rather than just disappearing always seemed cool to me. As though they turned away in disgust, and had somewhere better to go to.

'Scuse probably dodgy spelling/translation. This is remembered from 'the old fart's' Norse primer, so probably looks like nothing on earth to you. Also I don't know how to type eths.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:27 / 26.08.03
That is very beautiful, and actually the language is recognisable, isn't it? So maybe not too hard after all. However. I have other fish to fry at present, so I may be some time.

Blackwell's turned out to be a bit rubbish (I swear the HQ here has gone sadly downhill in the last five years - and the secondhand section is absurdly expensive) but I did find Snorri Sturluson's Edda (Everyman edn) and will tackle it as soon as maybe. I have dipped into it once or twice and it looks like a good frolic, at any rate.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
10:51 / 08.09.03
I am now reading the Edda (though currently bogged down in textbooks on Restoration history, so it is dragging on rather). I have finished 'Gylfaginning' and am struggling with 'Skaldskaparmal' - the kennings are the problem, my tired brain just can't keep up with them in the evenings these days. Perhaps it is just a symptom of being confronted with so many of them at once, though the longer passages he gives as illustration are a little mind-boggling as well.

I like the mythology though. Thor is just like the Hulk, basically, isn't he? Only without the clever scientist part.
 
 
Grand Panjandrum of the Pointless
21:05 / 10.09.03
Except he has a hammer and dresses up in girl's clothes. And has a chariot drawn by goats.

Have just discovered some recordings of Anglo-Saxon and Old Norse. The Norse is from the Prose Edda, and the Old English from 'The Battle of Maldon', the first known example of a popular British cultural meme; the heroic poem/picture/film about a battle which should have been a pushover, but was actually lost due to stunning military incompetence. Cf. 'Charge of the Light Brigade', Zulu,, et.c.
There is also some Old Irish. Listening to this leads me to believe that there must have been some very interesting mushrooms growing around the monastery where Gaelic orthography was devised.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
10:29 / 07.10.03
I'm back with the Edda (Quicksilver still too hefty to read on the bus...). Finding 'Skaldskaparmal' much easier to cope with the further I get into it - you do start remembering that 'Mardoll' means Freyja, and 'Mardoll's tears' means gold, and so on. I must say though that 'battle leek' (sword) seems rather odd... images of nordic warriors clouting each other with leeks and salad onions in my mind...

I like the snatches of myth and legend you get between the exposition of the kennings best, though. King Hrolf Kraki is my new hero.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:29 / 20.10.03
I finished 'Skaldskaparmal', but am ashamed to say that I ran out of steam and couldn't face 'Hattatal'. Perhaps another time... but I do feel that reading 'Skaldskaparmal', however little I actually took in, has increased my understanding of the literature. Might even tackle the poetic Edda at some point in the future. I did buy Hrafnkel's Saga and The Saga of King Harald at the weekend, so more ill-informed ramblings to follow in this thread.
 
 
cusm
14:08 / 29.10.03
I'm not sure why I hadn't noticed this thread before, I've been chewing through the Hollander edition of the Prose Edda for the past month or so and am a bit over half way through it. Chewy stuff. The later half seems to get more into variations of Sigurd's tale, which I'm less interested in having read Volsung and having a good covering already of Neiblungun (sp). But at this point, I've come to enjoy the kennings and general poetic style enough to continue anyway. Its great stuff. I especially love how the gods are rarely given direct names. They're always referred to by a descriptive title. Odin, for example, might be Wanderer in one stanza and All-Wise in the next. But if you want a good grounding in the mythology, the Edda is the place for it. Snorri's Edda is a later work that summarizes the mythology, mostly taken from Voluspa and Havamal, and is an easier read. There's also an interesting interpretation of the Eddas from a Theosophic point of view in Titchenell's The Masks of Odin which I found to be a helpful addition to Hollander's notes, though you have to sift the Theosophic theories to taste.

I've read Hrafnkel's, that was short and fun. Vinlander is next in my queue, and then I plan to get to Njal's, which I've only just found a copy of.

If you haven't read Volsung or Sigurd's saga, that's another classic. Its also the Neiblungun in German, the story Wagner abused into his Ring Cycle opera (Das Rhinegold). You'll find bits of it familiar from a lot of the mythologic lays. In short, its the story of Sigur slaying the dragon Fafnir, the cursed Rhine Gold, and Brunhilde. Spear and magic HEL-met!

I haven't had a chance to read Beowulf yet. Is Heaney's the edition to get, or does anyone have better recommendations?

How on earth did they manage to link Thor with Jesus

Actually, its less linking Thor with Jesus as it is linking God with Odin. It then follows that God's charasmatic son popular with the common folk must be just another version of Thor, even if his myth bears closer resemblence to that of Odin's other son, Baldur. I guess it shows about how much attention the old Islanders were paying to the Christians at the time, eh?


Though I do have a question for anyone here. Throughout the Eddas, there are references to the elves (or Alfs). But unlike the Dwarves, who have a catelog of names and appear frequently as characters, there seems to be little detail on the elves. In fact, the only one to show up that I've seen so far is Volund the Smith, who builds himseld a flying chariot to escape from an analog of king Minos. The kennings link them to light and the sun, there are bits like "elves discern" and perspectives in the namings in Allvismal, but little in the way of detail on what the heck they are and their place in the cosmic scheme of things other than Frey being in charge of their realm. Clearly, Tolkien had an interpretation, but I'm curious about actual references if anyone is aware of anything useful in that regard.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
12:30 / 30.10.03
Is Heaney's the edition to get, or does anyone have better recommendations?

I thought that Heaney's translation was excellent as a piece of writing. People above have mentioned that it wasn't the most accurate -I didn't know enough about the genre or the language in the original to notice that, but if you know what the words are meant to mean then it could get irritating. I would recommend his introduction (whichever version you end up reading) as it was excellent, particularly on the linguistic side of things...
 
  
Add Your Reply