BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Temple >

From God to Gods

  
 
electric monk
14:39 / 28.12.07
Over here, I make brief mention of the difficulties I've encountered in transitioning from a life as a Lutheran to life as a Magician. It's a little over four years now since I officially announced my intent to become a magician, but it seems that I need more than time to "let go" of some of the ideas and teachings I internalized from my many years as a Christian. Turns out it's not as easy as deciding to be "this" instead of "that". Whodathunk? ;-)

All kidding aside, the area of occult studies I've found most difficult is building a relationship with gods. I had brief flirtations with Ganesh and Bast when I was starting out, but it never became serious. Occasional offerings, occasional prayers and rituals. But never with regularity, and never with anything nearing the dedication that I see displayed by some of our fellow Temple peeps. I understand that the relationships touched on in the Temple by others are the result of many years of work, and I don't expect to come to that level without a comparable amount of work on my part. But I block myself from taking up that responsibility, convince myself that there are more immediate concerns and that I'll get to it later. And so the altar never gets built. The prayers are never worked out. And I leave myself with aimless pondering in idle moments, which gets me nowhere at all.

And the thing is, I started off pretty well. I guess it's probably about two years ago that Attis contacted me in a dream. This prompted me to seek him out, read up, conduct ritual and... run like hell in the opposite direction when I got The Fear* and fucked up. I put myself through a lot of pain and anguish in the aftermath, mainly because I was approaching the relationship as basically the same as my Christian relationship with God. Do these things, don't do these other things, Thou shalt have no other etc., and Reward and Punishment. I did a lot of self-punishing because I thought that's what was expected of me, but when I presented my works to my God he snickered and told me that it was all a waste of time. That's not what he'd wanted from me at all. Devastated, I pretty much gave up. Made occasional stabs at tending the relationship, but that's it.

It's there, tho. I recently put in a call to Attis on behalf of a friend, and he came through nice as you please. I was hoping to talk to Cybele that night as well, but she didn't seem to want to interact. I felt her prescence there with us, but she seemed to want to stay in the background. Attis did the talking, and I get the sense that he's a sort of gatekeeper for Cybele. No one goes to Her but through Him. That kind of deal. She too is a destination on the trip I know I've got to take, but it's Attis who will lead the way and I need to earn his friendship and respect before anything else can commence.

So, in a sense, I need to "just get over it". But, again, it's foolish to think that I can just throw aside twenty years of belief and move on. I tried that. It fucked me good and proper. I need new strategies, and some advice. I've already determined that I MUST build the altar I've never gotten around to. That seems the best place to start. From there, I'll tend the altar. Burn incense. Write a prayer. And start a dialog. After that, I'm clueless. What else needs doing, in your estimation? How, I wonder, do I tend to *me*? How do I integrate the disparate elements of belief that I hold into a functional whole? Where are the commonalities between life lived in the Church and a life when one makes their own holy place, and is it possible to take advantage of those commonalities to get me where I want to go?

I feel that I should be clear on another point before we get rolling: The above is in no way meant to reflect bitterness on my part toward Christianity or it's members. I was raised a Lutheran because that is the tradition I was born into. My parents, teachers, pastors, etc., were only doing what they thought was right and I don't fault them for any of it. Nor do I think them stupid for holding the beliefs they do. My decision to break away from the church was a personal one, in response to doubts that surfaced when I was in college (far from home and congregation).

If any of the above is unclear, my apologies. This hasn't been the easiest post to write. I'll be happy to clear up the unclear and answer questions if it will help give you a better idea of where I'm at and what I'm on about.

*hands shake a little*

*hits post*


*Loosely defined as "Holy shit, this is for real."
 
 
EmberLeo
07:53 / 29.12.07
The first thing that comes to mind is to try not to frontload it so much - instead of trying to figure out step 20 before you take step 1, just take the steps you DO know, and go from there.

For me, what has helped me a great deal in respecting not only the significance, but the existence, needs, and personal preferences of the gods, is to remember that Gods Are People Too. I'm not saying gods and humans are equal in power, wisdom, and skill (though I do feel that by definition, all things that exist are equal in value to the whole, but that's another topic). I'm just saying They are individuals and should be treated accordingly.

When you meet a new person, do you decide what you'll do the tenth time you hang out, or do you just arrange for that first time, and decide together what the next time will be? It's likely you do bring preconceived notions to the table, since you weren't born yesterday, but one of the usual notions when we meet new people is that we don't already know them, and therefore cannot safely assume all that much about what they'll want.

In modern western culture, one of the easier paralells to make between god relationships and more familiar activities is romance. There's a certain amount of formality, a certain expected pattern. There are certain rights and exchanges of Self involved. And at the same time, if you really want it to work, you will need to personalize the structure to suit the two who are actually forming the relationship, eh?

So treat each of those steps like it's a date. It's a getting-to-know-eachother opportunity. And then if you don't feel like He's making it clear what He would like the two of you to do for the next date, go ahead and ask point blank. Or make an offer of something you might like, and ask if He's interested.

Does this make sense?

--Ember--
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
21:07 / 29.12.07
driver 8

I just re-read your post, and I'm still not sure what to address in offering some assistance.

I don't have any relationships with any Gods already spoken-for, well, not that I'm aware of. The spiritual beings with whom I'm entwined haven't told me their names (well, 1 has, but I can't say it out loud, and another is only spoken in the context of her story...).

I figured that Shiva, Bast, Mercury and so on, have a long history of complex relationships with humanity and one another. I don't feel willfully strong enough to engage with such powerful beings. Although Mercury oversaw my education, he's moved on to other concerns, and I don't bother him much anymore.

It feels to me like I'm connecting with the forgotten spirits of the place I'm in. I've danced with the tree-spirits living in the wood of a dance floor, but couldn't tell you their names. It seems like whenever this kind of thing happens, that the spirits in question are very pleased that someone recognises their presence, and is willing to play (usually means they get to flail my body around the dance floor - this can lead to a satisfying if sore day after).

I don't know if pursuing a deity that isn't so well-connected (can you imagine what Yahweh's inbox looks like?) is right for your practice, however, for me, it has been a valuable tact in exploring the world under the one we commonly share.

I grew up Roman Catholic, have shifted from my spirituality from the book to the building (cathedrals were so much more informative than sermons) to the body (the best skills you take with you). I do keep Mary, the mother of god, and St Francis of Assissi, who taught me how to speak to cats, close by in case (icons), but haven't had a need to call upon them (fortunately).

I hope that's helpful.

may the wheel of fortune turn in your favour
 
 
Talas
05:29 / 30.12.07
Reading your post again, I think you've got most of what you need to start right in front of you. Like you said,

... I block myself from taking up that responsibility, convince myself that there are more immediate concerns and that I'll get to it later. And so the altar never gets built. The prayers are never worked out.

I'm reminded of a writer's motivational type book that I read, which is pretty much nothing but 100 pages of "no matter what your excuse is, writing is the most important thing to do." (In this case, substitute "devotional work".) Basically, take the time now. There is nothing more important than putting up that altar right now; even 15 minutes is worth it, and everything else you've got to do can wait 15 minutes. Every time you feel yourself beginning to talk yourself out of doing the devotional work, just remind yourself that right now, nothing is more important.

At this point, I suspect you're over The Fear, or at least the shock of it, so you shouldn't be as freaked when you're reminded 'holy shit, it's all real'.

Basically, you have to start somewhere, and starting off small is most reasonable -- Ember pointed out that a relationship with a deity is a lot like romance, and she's right. If Attis is who's calling you, then start with Him. Seriously: Barbelith is not more important than His altar.

One thing that the average church does well is encourage regular commitment -- Sunday morning, every week, whether you feel like it or not. If it seems fitting, set aside some time each week (even just an hour or two -- and it would probably help if it were the same time on the same day each week) and designate it Attis Time.

I've already determined that I MUST build the altar I've never gotten around to. That seems the best place to start. From there, I'll tend the altar. Burn incense. Write a prayer. And start a dialog.

Exactly. And once you start a dialogue, you're going to have a better idea of where to go from there. And there's certainly no shame in starting with the basics -- after all, you've got to lay a foundation before you can build a house.

Also, on top of all that, I find it useful to keep a journal -- you can track your own progress (which is motivational either way) and identify patterns.
 
 
EmberLeo
20:13 / 30.12.07
I thought it might be helpful if I chimed in with how I begin a relationship, rather than simply lecturing you on how you theoretically should begin a relationship. (eep!)

When I get a new ping, if I already know who the power is, I don't usually do a whole bunch more research until after I've made contact and have something more specific to look for in the Lore. If I don't know the power much at all, I do more basic research. Some reading and looking things up, but also asking whoever I know that works with the power in question about it.

Then I tend to make something for the new power before I have the guts to try direct trance/meditation contact (which, for me, is the primary mode of connection). Usually it's a necklace, but sometimes it's something else, or multiple things - a cane for Ghede, a crown of leaves for Freyr, decorated eggs for Ostara - whatever symbols I found in my research may please Them without diving straight into the symbols attributed to Their priests (so no Top Hat for Ghede at first, no string of bells for Freyr at first, etc.)

Once I have something concrete to work with, then I use it as a focus for meditation or (if I know the way to find Them in otherspace) to aid in journeying to visit Them, and talk about what They would like from me.

To be specific - when I was working on a connection to Erzulie I got very careful and formal about the process, because I was scared, and it was getting in my way. What is a system for if not to give you something to fall back on when you can't see clearly?

So first I did some research as to who Erzulie really is, and especially the Path of Erzulie I'd been prompted to work with.

Then I made Her three necklaces referring to different attributes, carved a veve for Her into a pink candle, and hand-embroidered a kerchief with Her initials in curly cursive surrounded by a heart. I even wrote Her a letter heaping Her with praise and stating my intentions toward Her formally. The letter invited Her to work with me in the particular manner requested of us. But I put off the meditation with Her for quite a while because I was scared of rejection - or worse.

Having done way more preparation than I would normally do for a Northern European deity, I finally did the meditation to connect with Her directly. Fearing my house wasn't clean enough for Her, and knowing She loves water, I performed the contact ritual it in the swimming pool. I went about as all-out for a mini-voodoo ritual as I could, given that I didn't have a Mambo or anything handy.

As usual, the preparation wasn't really all for Erzulie's sake. Yes, the gifts show respect and all, and that's good - but for a total beginner, one gift is enough to begin with, and two shows that I read how She always wants a little more. Five plus a love letter? I think She was probably laughing gently at me by the time I finally made contact. But that's okay - I find that if the gods are gently laughing at me, I may be embarrassed, but I'm in a lot less trouble than I could be otherwise.

The real point of all that work was simply that I had a lot of walls to break down, and each little bit of craftwork and ritual chips away at another layer of doubt and fear, until I don't really have any choice left but to reach out.

So it eventually worked, and worked quite well. I made my offering to Legba, and sang for the Guardians, and hemmed and hawed until there just wasn't anything left I could do to put it off... and then She was there, and I found myself preferring the hot tub (which is unusual for me, especially in the summer) and then preferring the bath tub where I could soak if I pleased in nice-smelling things, and shave my legs for the first time in a year, and ponder just how squeaky clean I myself could be despite not being as good a housekeeper as perhaps I should be, and how nice Erzulie might find it if I got Her some petits fours and mixed banana liqueur with buttershots for Her, and....

So yeah, if keeping it simple isn't working, go ahead and get a bit elaborate - just be clear with yourself in the long run that the point of all that ritual is to unlock yourself, rather than that the powers you are trying to contact necessarily require you to turn around three times, spit over your left shoulder, and recite a prayer in some archaic language before begging for Their attention.

--Ember--

P.S. Under the circumstances, I feel a need to point out that I haven't listed all the details of how I perform a "mini voodoo ritual". That's on purpose.
 
 
electric monk
13:23 / 02.01.08
Sorry it's taken me a while to get back here (No net access at home). Thanks, everyone, for your responses. I've found it all very helpful.

For me, what has helped me a great deal in respecting not only the significance, but the existence, needs, and personal preferences of the gods, is to remember that Gods Are People Too.

Heh. That right there is a huge part of my problem. It's hard for me to think of Gods as People or Friends or what have you. God/s have been something to fear for me, for the most part. I can see that now, and I can see why it would be unhelpful. This'll be at the forefront of my mind then next time I try to talk with my Guy.

Every time you feel yourself beginning to talk yourself out of doing the devotional work, just remind yourself that right now, nothing is more important.

This will also take some doing on my part, but having some time just for devotions will definitely help.

I took some time last night to set up an altar for Attis, and have set aside some time on Sundays for us to talk. The altar is purposefully sparse at this point in the spirit of Keeping It Simple. I've left plenty of room for future additions, and am prepared to subtract if it comes to that. I've also made it clear that there's an open line via my dreams if He wants to make contact that way. I guess I'll have to wait and see how it goes. I'll let y'all know...
 
 
Ticker
15:14 / 02.01.08
I had/have similar problems but without the starting issue being one of monotheisim vs. poly. It took me a while to figure out that I had some inappropriate templates for interacting with authority even in family style relationships. I kept dragging in dynamics, expecting dynamics, or projecting dynamics onto my relationship with the Divine.

What I found helped the most was accepting that it was ultimately a new relationship with a new Personality. I couldn't predict based on experiences with other relationships what this one would be like etc. The most shocking thing was being shown that part of my presumptions were about who I was and what I was supposed to be doing.

I really like Gypsy's advice in the Temple in general to just start having the conversation and to get on with the work. For me part of the work is the untangling of what I'm wrapped up in and understanding part of it is about sorting shit out.

My Gods are very patient with me in part I believe because They are invested in the relationship as much as I am, but also because They understand the baggage I'm having to jettison.

for people making the mono to poly transition I strongly recommend John Michael Greer's A World Full of Gods. It's a fanastic book examining the philosophical differences between the two systems at a high level above specific trads.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
22:12 / 02.01.08
as most monotheistic religions are Solar belief systems, you may wish to re-introduce the cycles of the Moon as a means of bridging the distance.

In 2008, the vernal equinox (in the north) falls on the full moon. This is the origin of Easter, and the most fertile time for nubile humans, and may prove a rich time for planting the seed of an idea to bridge the two theisms.

I found a ritual on a full moon coincident with the day of the dead in 2001 was very helpful in bringing together a broader sense of belief.

just a thought.
 
 
EmberLeo
06:41 / 03.01.08
It's hard for me to think of Gods as People or Friends or what have you. God/s have been something to fear for me, for the most part.

Since the baggage you're carrying around is rather specifically attached to the word "god" it might help to stop using that label?

--Ember--
 
 
archim3des
01:18 / 04.01.08
dear driver 8

Liber Resh vel Helios by Crowley is probably one of the best tools that I've come across to helping me develop a personal daily practice. The entire Liber itself is probably no longer than about 500 words or so, so its not one of his more immediatly verbose works but it definitely has a lot of depth. The basis of the book is four short easily memorizable 7 line prayers, devoted to four specific manifestations of the sun as it passes through the day, namely the morning sun as Ra, the noon sun as Ahathoor, the evening sun as Atum, and the midnight sun as Kephri. Crowley's works put me off for a while because of their intensity and rigorousness, i.e. according to Crowley one must say these prayers at very specific times, such as the adoration of Ra must be said at dawn and the adoration of Kephri must be said at midnight. The thing that I've discovered, at least as far as its relevant to me, is that those were Crowley's prayers, and what might have worked for the Great Beast might not work for a guy that works at Starbucks. So the revision of it leads me to say the adoration of Ra whenever I wake up, and Ahathoor at whenever I have lunch, and Kephri whenever I go to sleep.

The point is with these adorations is that in the end the lesson I learned was that of the I/Thou relationship. In those prayers there's a lot of "Thou art Ra in thy rising, and thou art Ra in thy strength.." blah blah blah. As far as I understand it, I'm just talking to myself, or the part of myself/brain/neurology that doesn't do the talking. The "Thou" is just the inflated part of self-awareness of the universe that is talked to when your down and out on the material plane, not exalted in gnosis. So it kind of has enhanced my recognition of feedback cycles within my own mind. In taking a a page from Regardie and Hine, one of the key tools a magician is the ability to visualize, such as in the GD system, when one enacts the sign of Harpocrates or Set Triumphant, to get the most out of it, one must visualize and come to understand oneself to be the godform invoked or intimated. So when I'm not in the middle of ritual or invocation and I pray to a god I realize I'm just praying to myself. The same thing applies to say Erzulie, when invoking, praying, or making gifts for Erzulie, when is actually doing that for the part of your own consciousness that is a Goddess of Love, regardless of your biological sexuality.

I'd seriously recommend reading and applying Liber Resh, and you could most definitly find it on the internet. Beyond being a focus on the sun, which usually is a symbol of the exalted ego, it gets one into recognition of the spiritual value of numbers which has significantly aided me in my appreciation of magick. The prayers, once memorized, take no more than 30 seconds to say, and can be said anywhere at any time, as long as they have recognized value to you. 20 bucks says three monthes of regular prayer in that manner will have your frontal lobes tingling in ways you've never experienced before.
 
 
electric monk
17:49 / 05.01.08
Since the baggage you're carrying around is rather specifically attached to the word "god" it might help to stop using that label?

Totally agree. I've decided on "Friend", as a starting point. Much less pressure on everyone involved, really.

In 2008, the vernal equinox (in the north) falls on the full moon. This is the origin of Easter, and the most fertile time for nubile humans, and may prove a rich time for planting the seed of an idea to bridge the two theisms.

I do think there are some similar themes in the stories of Jesus and Attis, and I'm open to him using my familiarity with these symbols to communicate with me. But I don't think I want to mold the relationship that way or bring those old structures in myself. It's a good idea for when the time is right.

I am watching the sun and moon and the turning of celestial bodies these days, keeping track of moon phases, that sort of thing. Tending a garden. It's my (very crude) understanding that Attis is Of Nature in his way, so observation of greenery and the wheel of the year has become important to me as a way of knowing him.

So when I'm not in the middle of ritual or invocation and I pray to a god I realize I'm just praying to myself. So when I'm not in the middle of ritual or invocation and I pray to a god I realize I'm just praying to myself. The same thing applies to say Erzulie, when invoking, praying, or making gifts for Erzulie, when is actually doing that for the part of your own consciousness that is a Goddess of Love, regardless of your biological sexuality.

I'm sure I've come across Liber Resh before. I was a big Crowley-hound back in the day. ;-) But I've kind of moved away from that mindset, TBH. I can't honestly say what the gods might be or where they reside, but I'm attempting to meet them on more personable terms. I just want to talk, really.

XK, that book looks awesome. I'm saving up my pennies!
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
23:52 / 05.01.08
driver 8

sounds like you've got things in the right perspective. Now, it's just a matter of living through it.

I'm at the end of a 9-year journey of boiling off the "oldde" me and redefining the "neo-," which involved putting authorities (whether religious or otherwise imagined) into the right context for my work.

May your journey continue to astound you with its inherent playfulness. I've sent blessings your way - please give them my regards.
 
  
Add Your Reply