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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Aliens Versus Predator Requiem

  
  

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Aha! I am Klarion
19:23 / 26.12.07
Anybody see this?

It's great. It's stupid, but it's about a thousand times better than the first one.

It's basically a zombie film with aliens, which was an inspire (albeit, lazy) choice. It sets up the characters just to kill them off in the most flippant and horrendous ways. Which is great, but basically devolves the film to the level of Freddy vs. Jason.

It's a shame to see that the quality of both series has fallen so far.

The thing that works, the thing that matters, is that the fight scenes are worth watching.
 
 
Spaniel
19:31 / 26.12.07
Why?

Where's the abstract?

Etc...
 
 
CameronStewart
19:32 / 26.12.07
I can't wait to not see this!
 
 
Jack Fear
19:48 / 26.12.07
Requim? Does that mean that there was quim in previous installments in the series? Man, maybe I'd better start watching these movies.
 
 
Spaniel
19:52 / 26.12.07
Sexy moovische
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:06 / 26.12.07
Try not to bully the newer members, darlings.


I saw the first Aliens Versus Predator film - I was confused at the time that it was directed by Paul WS Anderson, until I remembered that it was in fact a video game license rather than an actual film. It was generally a thoroughly mediocre film, suffering from the anaemic script, paper-thin characterisation and Colin Salmon being cut into cubes that we have come to expect from Anderson's films.

However, the director's commentary really changed my opinion. Not of the film, which remained really pretty bad, but of Paul WS Anderson, who seemed like a thoroughly decent chap who was working hard to make a film with almost no budget at least nominally entertaining. Also, Lance Henrikssen, aready a man much to be admired, was adorable - constantly assuring Anderson that it was a great shot, a great scene, a terrific character moment. It was, frankly, heartbreaking.

I understand that this sequel is directed by the Strause Brothers, who have worked as visual effects supervisors on a lot of recent superhero blockbusters, but have directed little more substantive than Nickelback videos. Of course, it's hard to take a step down from Paul WS Anderson, except possibly in salary terms, but one well-known way to do it is to take a tyro pop video maker or special effects supervisor and get them in as director - see Tim Pope or Tom Savini.

So, couple of questions on this one. First up, the zombie movie thing. Both Aliens and Predators seem to be very unlike zombies, so do you mean that they behave like zombies, or that it's like a zombie movie in the sense that a small group of people are barricaded in by a hostile force and picked off one by one?

Also, the fight scenes. What are they like? Are the character elements of the Aliens or the Predators handled well? Is it, ultimately, an exciting film, or a funny one, or a suspenseful one?

More broadly, is there any way either of these franchises could come back from low-budget, straight or very nearly straight to DVD movies? Historical affection aside, they were both pretty much dead before AvP1 - Predator 2 was a startling drop in quality, and whatever its virtues Alien Resurrection was not exactly box office manna. Should they perhaps be left to die, or - playing to their strengths - continued as video games?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:58 / 27.12.07
Trailer would suggest that it's a splatter movie, Haus, only with aliens replacing the role traditionally filled by the undead.

Trailer would also suggest that it consists of nothing more than lots of people getting killed in different ways, but it may not have been representative of the full movie.
 
 
CameronStewart
01:15 / 27.12.07
I read an interview with the directorial brothers in which they expressed the intent to "return to the roots" of Ridley Scott's Alien.

Says they (actual quote): "That movie was dark. That movie used a lot of rain."

Says I: No it didn't. It's on a fucking spaceship. There's one scene when Harry Dean Stanton stands under some dripping water in the mechanical bay right before the alien eats him. It's not rain and it's for one brief moment. So if their memory of Scott's film is so thin that they confuse this for rain, and lots of it, and similarly, if they think that "lots of rain" is what gave Scott's film its darkness and depth, you'll forgive me if I don't have much faith in these clods.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
09:12 / 27.12.07
There is no denying that the movie was made by fucking retards, but unlike Paul W. S. Anderson's AVP (wish it was Paul Thomas Anderson's AVP, that would be sweet) the film is actually fun to watch. It is nothing but a splatter fest. So bad it's good.



The only things I can compare it to is "Return of the Living Dead", "Freddy versus Jason", and Pre-Morrison era X-Men comics (bare with me).

1) Return of the Living Dead- Because the film is perverse and full of violent gore. It sets up many characters back-stories (which nobody cares about) only to pick them off in the worse manner (that cute girl--dead; the little girl's dad--dead). And because the plot is basically the same. The only difference is that it has less telegraphed irony and outright black humor.

2) Freddy Versus Jason - Obviously, its the same type of concept, but unlike the first film, there is no attempt at hitting the level of emotional resonance for the various character, but just serves them up as cannon fodder.

Plus logic goes out the window. For example, the pregnant waitress whose sheriff's deputy husband was found skinned alive is seen at work the same evening saying good-bye to her boss. "See you tomorrow sweetie."

"Didn't they give her the fucking day off!" I screamed at the picture. I mean, her husband was just found skinned, and unless her boss was a warlord at a diamond mine she would get a day or two off after her husband was fucking skinned!

Also the Predator Alien, which has sweet rasta-dreads can lay eggs in people like a face hugger through it's mouth. Whatever!

3) Pre-Morrison era X-Men
Ok this is a bit of stretch but, the film is incestuous like that. Everybody's related to everybody else sort of thing. Oh, your my long lost brother! Oh, Mystique is Nightcrawler's mom. That kind of retarded.

For example, the "tough chick" in the film, the filmmakers kinda imply that she is Ripley's ancestor. Not archetype, mind you, ancestor.

And that one-guy-form-Aliens-you-know-the-kinda-a-dick- captain-who-freezes-that-guy,
he's in it. He's not a robotics designer like Henriksen's character or anything like that. No, he is just some dude whose in the woods with his kid.

Why can humans go into space in Alien? Well because somebody found a predator's gun.

Oh, that giant in the chair in Alien? Well, that's a predator ancestor because when we see the homeworld of the predators the main predator is siting in a chair kinda like the giant.

etc., etc.

---

What you need to do is see it in a theater where people yell at the screen. An "Oh hell no, don't go in that door, Bitch!" sort of thing.

While I am pointing this stuff out, don't mistake my criticism for dislike of the film. I fucking loved it. But don't go to complain, go high or with a bunch of smart-ass friends.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
10:10 / 27.12.07
Hmmmm - Not intending to have a go, but I feel compelled to mention that it's generally considered better and nicer round these parts not to use 'retarded' or 'retard' as a means of articulating critiscism. I don't imagine you meant any unpleasantness, but it's something you probably need to be made aware of.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
10:15 / 27.12.07
sorry, poor colloquialism choice
 
 
CameronStewart
13:25 / 27.12.07
So bad its good.

Yeah, see...I'm past this stage in my life. I can no longer willfully sit and watch bad movies because they're goofy or funny or whatever. I used to be able to, now I've just hit that point when I realize it's a waste of my time and I'd rather watch something that's actually "so good it's good." I still end up seeing a lot of bad movies, but they're at least ones that I thought might have been good, rather than ones I knew would be terrible up front.

It's currently scoring 14% on Rotten Tomatoes, and I was amused by this little pullquote:

"A vile, joyless, murky, moronic, amateurish, contemptuous, numbing, unintentionally hilarious, and thoroughly diseased motion picture...a middle-finger to the paying crowd."

So I'm fairly certain that I'll never pay to see this.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
19:44 / 27.12.07
But Cameron, what works, what matters in the film is the violence inflicted on screen between the Alien and Predator and their human victims. In this case the film is a big success. None of the action sequence are boring or poorly staged. In fact some of them have a great sadistic wit and humor to them. It's the details relating to the "cannon" of the films and the idiotic handling of the human characters and the social realms they inhabit that get my inner movie geek testy. Not enough to detract from the enjoyment of the films as this plays into the this "is so bad that it's good" part. The human characters are mostly dumb in that Ed Wood sort of way (MUST TELEGRAPH.... EMOTION!).

However, the main Predator is immensely likable character.

It's like a mixture of worst zombie movie retread with the human side of the equation and a pretty good live-action episode of Samuri Jack when the predator takes on a nest Aliens.

In fact, as I commented to the person with whom I watched the film, "This is boring [referring to the human plot] where are the Aliens."
 
 
Quantum
20:48 / 27.12.07
"However, the main Predator is immensely likable character."



Sexy too.
 
 
sleazenation
22:05 / 27.12.07
I can definitely relate to Cameron's not really having much time/desire/interest in watching films that you are reasonably sure will be not very rewarding.

YMMV on what constitutes rewarding.

For me, I guess that means I'm looking for quality and writing, acting and direction. Effects sequences, though pretty to look at, don't in and of themselves make a rewarding film, for me at least.

The reviews and hype i've seen have not been terribly encouraging, which is a shame because I really enjoyed the genuinely cinematic qualities of the original Aliens Vs Predator comic...
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
22:45 / 27.12.07
Oddly enough, AVP was on cable at my parents' house last night. I remembered renting for the sheer hell of it when it came out on DVD and being appalled at its awfulness. I watched it again and went, "Uh...nope. Still pretty awful. Man, this could have been good."
 
 
CameronStewart
22:47 / 27.12.07
It's the details relating to the "cannon" of the films and the idiotic handling of the human characters...The human characters are mostly dumb in that Ed Wood sort of way...It's like a mixture of worst zombie movie retread ..."This is boring [referring to the human plot]

You're not doing a great job of selling me on this. I can't just sit and watch gore scenes for the sake of it, that's just not worth my time any more. I've nothing against gore and violence but I'd prefer it to be in a film that has other virtues too.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
22:58 / 27.12.07
Mr. Stewart, sadly you and others are in a category of one. It's pretty much all the same when you see horror trailers now. "How to outgross EVERYONE!"

Blech. Again.
 
 
Mug Chum
23:14 / 27.12.07
It's not rain and it's for one brief moment

See, I would really like if the director had just seen the movie for the 20th time, paying tons of attention. I'd find the experience of watching one of his films far more interesting that way. Maybe it could actually be a 'funny bad' worth watching instead of AvP bad.

Although, on the subject of rain=automatically dark/deep/serious... in a click a lot of movies and comic books suddenly made sense - in a stupid way. And suddenly all of John Cusack's movies are revealed for what they are: scary dark horror films, a psychotic rain-loving alien monster holding up a boombox in the rain (and us begging for the horror to end, and for him to be electrocuted).

I've nothing against gore and violence but I'd prefer it to be in a film that has other virtues too.

Or that the gore will be effective for the depth of the relationship we fostered with the story and its characters.
 
 
Quantum
23:47 / 27.12.07
"Kill...me..."
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
02:04 / 28.12.07
Oh dear. Dissing Say Anything gets you impregnated with alien eggs, Ziparrow. Hopefully when they burst out of your stomach they will be more open to Lloyd Dobbler.

Back at the ranch - is one of the problems that the Predator is a great video game character - simple motivations, ginchy power-ups - but not a very good movie character? Once the enigmatic bits of the first film were revealed, it just becomes a slightly tall and quite hard chap with bad hair and neat technology. The Predator films were consistently not as good as the Alien films - Predator is a good Arnie film, but it's really not a patch on Alien, and the only comparison between Aliens and Predator 2 is the presence in both of Bill Paxton. Basically, the Predators aren't very interesting, unless they are playable characters, or more precisely it's hard to make them interesting, and beyond the art of recent attempts.
 
 
Seth
10:27 / 28.12.07
NOT WORTH MY TIME!
 
 
CameronStewart
14:26 / 28.12.07
is one of the problems that the Predator is a great video game character - simple motivations, ginchy power-ups - but not a very good movie character?

It's not even really a character at all. It kills people, that's it. We never get any more than that - even its dialogue is alien and untranslated. Even Jason Voorhees has some kind of character background.

It only works (in the original film, anyway) because of the human characters that play against it.
 
 
grant
15:02 / 28.12.07
Paxton = also lauded for roles in The Perfect Storm and Twister.

He fights weather!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:41 / 28.12.07
I haven't seen all of this, but I caught some of it at the house of someone who had illegally downloaded it (and who thanks to my vigilance will now have a fun NYE in prison, the copright-theiving scum).

I like the original Alien an awful lot, and for me it's very tempting to get angry at those ideas being used in what I think is quite fairly described as a 'splatter' film.

And this isn't because I'm hugely opposed to splatter films, but because I think it's redolent of when American McGee tried to turn Alice in Wonderland into a shoot-em-up videogame - that is, it's a process that (in the text which it produces) inherently limits or misses the point of the original 'text'. It's a missed opportunity. The original Alien isn't Tolstoy, being as much of a straight-out action/horror as it is anything else, but it also is something else as well.

I'm also keen to avoid the idea that making adaptations like this 'spoils' the original product - hell knows how many times I've argued with people who thought that the casting of Billy Piper in a recent BBC series called Doctor Who had ruined forever their experience of a pre-existing BBC series called Doctor Who - but in this case, there seems to be a direct filling in of gaps in the mythos, of putting up answers to questions raised in the other films, which answers will (presumably?) be taken as read for the next film in the franchise. They might not, of course.

cf.: 'Oh, that giant in the chair in Alien? Well, that's a predator ancestor because when we see the homeworld of the predators the main predator is siting in a chair kinda like the giant.'

The great thing about that giant in the chair in the Boneship was that no-one knew what the hell it was supposed to be. That was the point. Another, very anal point is the ammount of the Alien feet that we see, both in this, it's direct ancestor and in the most recent Aliens film. The Alien is a monster whose feet you don't see. I'm all for seeing the monster's feet in a splatter movie, but not here.
 
 
Dead Megatron
15:44 / 27.01.08
Just saw the flick and I'd like to address to Predalien multiple spawn direct reprodution. Let's pretend for a moment that it was not simply some extremely lazy writing (how to bypass the egg/face-hugger issue and go straight to "there's a lot of Aliens in here" phase), so what does it tell us about the Predator biology?

First, we know from Alien3 and now from AVPR that the Aliens mimic at least some physical traits of the animals they parasite. So, we must assume that the Predators have a redically different reproductive system from terran vertebrates, which in turn somehow afects the Alien life-cycle. Since the Predalien reproduced by inserting multiple embryos directly with its mouth in its victims, we can assume two things:

1- Predators are born in litters, like cats or dogs.

2-Predators' [male?] sex organs are located in their heads, and impregnation of the partners is made through "kissing" or some sort of "oral sex".

We also could imagine Predators as hermaprodytes who impregnate each other in some very complicated, and somewhat kinky, sexual encounter. The hermaprodyte part pending further confirmation

Mind you, I'm just trying to salvage that ridiculous bypass in order not to ruin my childhood monsters.

AVPR is better than AVP,but still not as good as any original Alien movie (except Ressurection) or any Predator movie (the second mostly thanks to Danny Glover). At least this time they didn't try to make the Predator "friends" with the humans.

They should just do Predator 3, that's what I think. If I could write the screenplay, I'd set the action in Rio de Janeiro's slums. Predator vs. Drug gangs vs Police elite troops vs US Military, and everybody dies at the end...
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:13 / 28.01.08
Predator vs. Drug gangs vs Police elite troops vs US Military, and everybody dies at the end...

Predator 2 basically.

It's kind of irrelevant why the Predalien does what it does. It's just a Macguffin to get scads and scads of aliens out and scuttling without having to kill off the entire population of the town via chestbuster (why that wasn't done I don't know, we only see a handful of survivors anyway).

As far as plot-less impulse zone films go it was entertaining. Thankfully avoiding the "noble warrior" Predator and just having it as a brutal fracker who'll merrily kebab a man simply because he's running away.

Silly film. But I was surprised it was rated 15 over here. There were several moments which, to my mind, really should have taken it to 18. Is "fantasy" violence considered to be less bad than plain old violence?
 
 
Dead Megatron
08:53 / 28.01.08
Predator 2 basically.

Yeah, basically, but with characters as good as Predator 1, I hope. And the hillside slums make some great battle scenarios (Predator vs Helicopter)

Plus, since rio is located next to a stretch of tropical rain florest, we can switch from Predator 1 to 2 at will.


It's kind of irrelevant why the Predalien does what it does. It's just a Macguffin to get scads and scads of aliens out and scuttling without having to kill off the entire population of the town via chestbuster (why that wasn't done I don't know, we only see a handful of survivors anyway).

Hey, no arguments there. As I said, I'm just trying to salvage that mess in my mind.
 
 
Mistoffelees
09:05 / 28.01.08
Is "fantasy" violence considered to be less bad than plain old violence?

I believe, that is the case. The idea is that you can perform and imitate realistic violence, since knives, guns and bats are more or less available. But you can´t burst out of someone´s chest, spit metal eating acid at them or blow yourself up with a nuke you carry as a wristwatch. Whether the images are too frightening for a teenager´s mind is of less importance.

So the censors don´t care for the scarring and nightmares a 15 year old may have. They only care if he wants to play Predator or not after having watched the movie.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:20 / 29.01.08
If I could write the screenplay, I'd set the action in Rio de Janeiro's slums.

That would be ace. Sort of like "City of Predators", with a Tropicalia/bossa nova soundtrack, coked-up aliens, and a spattering of Candomble. I would also like to see "Predator 3: The harder they predator" set in Kingston, Jamaica and starring Jimmy Cliff as an intergalactic rudebwoy predator trying to make it in the cutthroat music business, cornering his prey in the ghetto while singing "You can get it if you really want", and leading inevitably to a big aliens versus predators soundclash at the end of the film.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:14 / 29.01.08
The On-U (and tearing your limbs off) Sound System!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:14 / 29.01.08
Featuring Gary FLAIL.
 
 
Dead Megatron
13:25 / 29.01.08
Hey, I can write about my own territory if I want to. You guys feel free to write "An American Predator in London" any time. And don't blame me for thinking Rio would be a cool setting for a Predator movie, because it would.

Plus,GL, Tropicalia/bossa nova? What decade are you writing from?
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:52 / 29.01.08
And don't blame me for thinking Rio would be a cool setting for a Predator movie, because it would.

Well you kind of have a point with the fact that there would be action in both the jungles and the city. But I'm still not convinced that there's a lot more to be done for the Predator francise that the first two films really covered.

I always thought that there would be potential in a story that involved the humans trying to make some kind of peace initiative with the Preds. But then Star Trek went and did The Undiscovered Country which, y'know, is basically that. Still it might have made an interesting commentary on hunting and the ethics of killing other living beings for sport.

I have to say one thing I came away with is a sense of how the Aliens and the Predator feel so monumentally dated as concepts. Especially the Predator. They've been pretty much mined out conceptually. I watch Aliens and I still feel a thrill and a genuine sense of threat from those delightful bugs, I watch AVP:R and there's none of that.

Don't get me wrong, I did find it an entertaining film. But in the same way I like the occasional bite of junk food.
 
 
osymandus
14:37 / 29.01.08
I have to say one thing I came away with is a sense of how the Aliens and the Predator feel so monumentally dated as concepts. Especially the Predator. They've been pretty much mined out conceptually. I watch Aliens and I still feel a thrill and a genuine sense of threat from those delightful bugs, I watch AVP:R and there's none of that.


Have to agree , I was watching Aleines 3 and 4 again this weekend . And for me its the Aleins that have become so so dull (Actually Aliens 4 just seems a test of Firefly but thats another matter ).

Add some life back into it , have the Aliens struggle for a change . A life form they either cant impregnate (something with heavy alkaline body chemistry that eats face huggers). Or a caste of people/creatures who instead of shooting/ killing aliens cripple them (acid blood becomes useless)
 
  

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