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Bohemian Grove

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17:24 / 24.11.07

I'm sure many barbelithers are familiar with bohemian grove, where people such as US Presidents, heads of major corporations, people like Henry Kissenger and so on go to party. For those who are not familiar, it is a retreat near Sanfrancisco started over 150 years ago ran by a members club called the "Bohemian Club". Every year people go for two weeks to have a good time and talk business. Every year they have a ritual called the "Cremation of Care" where a human is burned in effigy in front of 40 foot carved stone owl.

Alex Jones snuck in a few years ago and made a video of the ritual.

You can watch the video of the ritual here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZD3WT3Vqa8 and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ1B38TH6k

Alex Jones identifies the Owl as Moloch but after doing a little research i think thats erroneous.

What do you make of this ritual? What is the intention of this ritual? Any other thoughts?

17:39 / 24.11.07

newspaper articles here
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1489
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/bohemiangrove.html
http://www.sonic.net/~kerry/bohemian/

More about the club here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

Alex Jones has written some articles on his site, infowars.com about it, I think his take on this ritual is a little over the top, and very christian, but it is certainly quite weird to think of people like Richard Nixon at this thing.

So, whats it all about?

jentacular dreams

18:52 / 24.11.07

Well there's this site which agrees with your suspicions that the owl doesn't represent Molech (=/= Moloch?).

Mind you, I have some reservations about some of its claims, notably that Juno, Minerva and Aphrodite are one and the same (I've never noticed Greco-Roman mythology going in for much in the way of variable incarnations, though I may be quite wrong - anyone?) and that it is well known that NASA is constructed of nazis and freemasons, so I feel a liberal addition of salt might be wise.

23:39 / 24.11.07

Don't know about the Owl-Molach business but this would make a great Johnny Cash song...

The sky is blue and sawn with stars
The forest floor is heaped with fragrant grit
The evenings cool kiss is yours
The campfires glow
The birth of rosy fingered dawn

Shake off your sorrows with the city dust
And cast to the wind the cares of life

Attend our tale
Gather ye forest folk

And cast your spell over these mortals
Touch their world-blind minds with carrion
Open their minds to fancy
Follow the memories of yesterday
And seal the gates of sorrow
It is a dream
Yet: It is not a dream
Dull care in all of his words
Harboured it…

As to what they are getting up to in that ritual i really don't know. I imagine that they are all sigilialising for oil or something. Or my mind. That line about opening my mind to fancy really does explain why i'm stressing about this new dishwasher i've just got.

But really, this sort of stuff is really interesting but, hey, rich connected people often get together and do various rituals!

It is, however, really interesting to be able to watch a spy you tube video of this stuff.

00:16 / 25.11.07

But,to be honest, quite a bit less intersting than watching a good bonfire night. So a large number of well connected rich people get together and take part in a ritual.

WHO GIVES A FUCK??

Well connected rich people meet all the time and fuck up and make a mess of a lot of the world all the time!!!. And it is often very much in the public eye. I do get really pissed off sometimes with all the conspiracy theory stuff. Who gives a fuck if some president or other was in some freemason secret society giving handjobs to goats.

00:55 / 25.11.07

I didn't know who Alex Jones was until i came to this thread. Just been bouncing around his website. 'Dark Secrets:
Inside Bohemian Grove & The Order of Death'. I like it! I also like Gun Tights, sorry, Rights!!!

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:34 / 25.11.07

Yeah, it's basically a bunch of rich dudes having a bit of a shindig and reliving their misspent Alpha Kappa Phi years, innit? I'm just surprised there wasn't a beer-bong and paddling of the new pledges.

Here's an extract from Jon Ronson's take on the Bohemian Grove incursion.

13:42 / 25.11.07

During the ceremony, the voice of the former-newsman Walter Cronkite, a member of the Bohemian Club, is used as the voice of The Owl.

Sorry,I just can't take it seriously. It's fraternity ritual for old rich men, like middle age capitalist LARP.

13:46 / 25.11.07

X-post with Mordant who is right

15:50 / 25.11.07

Sorry,I just can't take it seriously. It's fraternity ritual for old rich men, like middle age capitalist LARP.

Well,yeah fraternity rituals are magic too arent they

you guys dont find this interesting?

16:01 / 25.11.07

The skull and bones, who three US presidents have been in, have their own goddess called Eulogia. People in the skull and bones steal things as offerings to the goddess. Are they just imagining they're worshipping a goddess or are they actually worshipping a goddess?

16:17 / 25.11.07

There are other reasons to "worship" the Skull and Bones Eulogia goddess, or the giant owl, or what have you other than actual religious belief in the goddess/owl/etc. I suspect that in the case of S&B there's a strong peer pressure or prestige aspect to it -- that is, stealing something 'in the name of Eulogia' gains one prestige in the eyes of your fellow secret society members, based on how impressive what you stole is. Showing up at Bohemian Grove seems like more of a statement of power than of religion (given that the only people who attend are the ruling elite).

In each case -- and including fraternity/sorority ritual as I understand it -- it's less to do with theology and more to do with bonding and reinforcing intracommunity ties (strengthening the 'us versus them' mentality), networking ("Hey, I saw you when they torched the Owl..."), et cetera.

16:45 / 25.11.07

Why not just golf, then?

17:01 / 25.11.07

Because quasi-religious ceremonies and society-specific goddesses are more effective? Because 'magic(k)' pokes the lizard brain better than golf and has a bit more aesthetic flair? I'm not 100% sure; I didn't get an invite.

I mean, by the same token, you could ask why fraternities engage in private religious-type ceremonies when they seem to get more out of keggers, or why the KKK co-opted Christian symbolism when the most recent incarnation is strongly anti-Catholic.

Why add magico-religious flair to anything that isn't actually about religious belief?

jentacular dreams

17:43 / 25.11.07

Legitimacy? By taking on the trappings of a religious mantle surely it offers a group the opportunity to ground their origins deeply in the past, or the occult, or the mysterious. Anywhere but the here and now really.

It also gives those who wish (both within and without) the opportunity to believe that there is more going on than they are aware of. Which probably also keeps everyone in line to some extent, and further reduces the likelihood of people within the organisation speaking at length on what goes on there to anyone else.

18:01 / 25.11.07

Yeah, but legitimacy for what? To prove that they're a strong and cohesive group or that an insiders versus outsiders attitude is justified?

I don't see any evidence that the society (Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, etc.) members are actually invested in the occult aspects in a belief sense. It's far more likely to my mind that -- given that human brains respond strongly to symbolism -- the societies are using strong symbols (like the occult trappings) to achieve non-religious ends.

jentacular dreams

18:16 / 25.11.07

Edit already in progress, but as I (will soon) say above, it at least offers the members the opportunity to invest themselves in the occult aspects to whatever extent they wish to.

18:31 / 25.11.07

Ubermice: ... it at least offers the members the opportunity to invest themselves in the occult aspects to whatever extent they wish to.

Yes, but I'm interested in what they're getting out of it. I can see the aesthetic appeal, but if they're actually interested in occultism beyond that, is there a point to engaging in the secret society brand of magic? Presumably they have a functional practice beyond that, and from my (admittedly outsider) POV the Bohemian Grove or S&B rituals seem remarkably devoid of belief backing them up.

This is, to my mind, very similar to what Mordant mentioned in this thread about groups practicing what is, on the surface, Northern Tradition paganism without actually believing in it; pasting on the Gods and wights to a practice that goes no deeper than what one might find in a devoted SCAdian.

20:18 / 25.11.07

By taking on the trappings of a religious mantle surely it offers a group the opportunity to ground their origins deeply in the past, or the occult, or the mysterious. ... It also gives those who wish (both within and without) the opportunity to believe that there is more going on than they are aware of. Which probably also keeps everyone in line to some extent, and further reduces the likelihood of people within the organisation speaking at length on what goes on there to anyone else.

I think we're on the same page here. The secrecy works to reinforce both the perceived value of the group and to bond the group together; as you said, people won't tend to speak at length about the group, which means that it's free to pursue its agenda without a lot of outside scrutiny. The occultism adds flair and mystery, aesthetics, a strong symbol set, etc.

My point is, it's not about the magic; it's all working toward secular goals. In the case of the Bohemian Grove, my guess is that the goals of the group and its members are -- no matter what it claims -- to reinforce the bonds of the ruling elite, to provide an opportunity to network within the 'in' group, and to bond the group together against outsiders (more, I suspect, to keep the outsiders from interfering with the group's agenda, which -- given the demographics of the B.G. attendees -- is likely 'to keep as much political power as possible within the B.G. group').

08:03 / 26.11.07

fraternity rituals are magic too arent they

No. More like a bit of a laugh. The dynamics of human peer bonding are complex and interesting, but not necessarily magic.
For example, most of those in the Bohemian Grove are Christians, right? (or from the christian right) and if they are secretly worshipping an owl goddess their professions of loving Jesus are all lies, right? and if discovered they will alienate the bulk of their support?

Isn't it more likely they perform these rituals in the same way they go to charity events etc, to network and make evil behind-the-scenes deals to fuck over the rest of the world?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:07 / 26.11.07

The thing is: ritual has its own power. That's why spiritual and religious traditions use ritual work in the first place, after all. The componants of ritual work, especially group rituals as in this case, have a heavy psychological impact that an afternoon on the links or brandy and cigars at the club do not. And that impact is still there even if you take away any religious, spiritual, or occult underpinnings. (I know you guys know all this really, I'm just flagging it up here.)

So no, I don't think there's any religious, spiritual, or occult belief or practice being expressed here. I think it's partly an entertainment, partly a way of delineating the "specialness" of the meeting and partly a way of getting everyone's collective head in the game. There doesn't have to be anything behind the owl. I don't see anything more "magical" there than a teenaged boy burning his ex-girlfriend's photo, or a bunch of jocks performing the team song before going out on the field. You can, of course, move the goalposts around here and say that frat rituals are magic (for a given value of magic that includes frat rituals), but you're not really saying anything, are you?

I'd agree that it's kind of scary to watch all those rich bastards burning an owl, but I'd get just as creeped out by a video of the same guys schmoozing at a fundraising gala or trying for a hole in one. Nothing good ever came of a bunch of rich guys getting together somewhere no-one can keep an eye on them. Fantasising about how the owl is really Moloch or they're all in league with Satan or how any minute now they will resume their true alien lizard forms and start gorging on human flesh is missing the fucking point.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:34 / 26.11.07

Actually the thing which strikes me most about this carry-on is that it's so fucking dorky.

09:20 / 26.11.07

I got bored with the bad camerawork and slow streaming so I didn't watch all the youtube clip, but I thought the owl was concrete? Don't they burn a fake human effigy by the owl, rather than burn the actual owl? Perhaps I'm confused.

trouser the trouserian

09:34 / 26.11.07

Quants

ritual described here by an American Sociologist - and btw, Bohemian Grove features prominently in Armistead Maupin's 1987 novel , Significant Others - which also mentions the "cremation of care" ritual.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:49 / 26.11.07

Yeah, I misspoke. They burn stuff by the owl, not the owl.

12:39 / 26.11.07

Significant Others- Aha, I thought it sounded familiar. Thanks for the link T, "a boy scout camp for old guys" describes it exactly.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:18 / 26.11.07

I think we sould have a thread on the occult significance of the Boy Scout movement in the UK. I mean, look at all those strange symbols, arcane jargon, and dark rituals. What is the mystic significance of the threefold chant ("Dib dib dib")? Why do the young initiates sport a nooselike garment around the neck? And what of the packlike, wolfish imagery--the howling, the portrayal of the Scout leader as an alpha-wolf figure? Has British society been infiltrated by a race of alien werewolves bent on corrupting our young?!

Closed for Business Time

14:30 / 26.11.07

In short, yes.

14:50 / 26.11.07

You can, of course, move the goalposts around here and say that frat rituals are magic (for a given value of magic that includes frat rituals), but you're not really saying anything, are you?

How would you define magic?

So no, I don't think there's any religious, spiritual, or occult belief or practice being expressed here.

You dont think that anyone, in the last 150 years of them doing this, every year, exactly the same way, had such beliefs? You think they said "we need a mascot" and decided on carving a 40 foot stone old, Invented a ritual arbitrarily and then did it the exact same say for 150 years?

Even if you say that, wouldnt hundreds of people taking part in the same ritual for so long, give the "Owl" power anyway?

Im really curious about why you two are so quick to dismiss this not having watched the whole video.

14:58 / 26.11.07

There are other reasons to "worship" the Skull and Bones Eulogia goddess, or the giant owl, or what have you other than actual religious belief in the goddess/owl/etc. I suspect that in the case of S&B there's a strong peer pressure or prestige aspect to it -- that is, stealing something 'in the name of Eulogia' gains one prestige in the eyes of your fellow secret society members, based on how impressive what you stole is. Showing up at Bohemian Grove seems like more of a statement of power than of religion (given that the only people who attend are the ruling elite).

Oh I agree, watching the video makes it obvious that people are just going a long with it and having a laugh. The real reason they're there is prestige and advancement. Like its a cool thing they're invited that powerful people go to. They feel lucky to be invited so go with flow, even though they dont really believe it. Maybe skull and bones is like that too. Do you really have to believe in a ritual to give it power by taking part though?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:05 / 26.11.07

I'm not being quick to dismiss it. Your Youtube link is not the first time any of us have been exposed to the Bohemian Grove shennanigans. Yeah, I watched the whole video. I sniggered most of the way through it. It was dorky. I also read Jon Ronson's thing about it a few years back, when it was serialised in the Grauniad or the Indy or wherever, and I read some of the reports you linked to.

Dude, you want to know one reason I'm dismissive of this ritual even though it's been going on for like 150 years? Because I'm British. We have even madder, more baroque, and exponentially dorkier rituals that have been going on for way longer than that and which, whatever they may have meant to their originators, have no significance now beyond "that's the way we've always done it." I mean, does the Changing of the Guard have "power"? Sure, of a sort.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your posts to this thread. Are you trying to say that the owl thing is evidence of a cult? If so, who's in on it--everyone, or just a few people? Are you trying to say that the participants may unwittingly be feeding some kind of entity? How do you want people to respond?

17:22 / 26.11.07

I agree.

I suppose if you're approaching it from a 'What is this freaky ritual' kind of viewpoint it might seem worth investigating, owing to the fact that, as Quantum said, a bunch of far right Christians conducting quite a Pagan looking ritual would initially be something to be pondered on.

But as you've all pointed out, as it's so clearly emulating a silly Frat boy initiation there isn't anything to discuss or consider, apart from welcoming the urge to snicker at them.

trouser the trouserian

17:34 / 26.11.07

Another sociological analysis of of the Grovers A Relative Advantage: Sociology of the San Francisco Bohemian Club (PDF, 1.14mb)

18:13 / 26.11.07

Well it seems our views are different. But thats a good thing!

18:31 / 26.11.07

'tis a good thing.

But wouldn't hundreds of people taking part in the same ritual for so long, give the "Akela" power anyway?

I was trying to think of a British equivalent to the Bohemian Grove, and it's the House of Lords. Cubs is a close second though.

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