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Cinematic Titanic

 
 
wicker woman
05:21 / 15.11.07
http://www.cinematictitanic.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinematic_Titanic


The Mystery Science Theater 3K crew is leaving behind their Riff Trax days and returning to the oh-so-fine tradition of ragging on really bad movies and amusing us all. I, for one, cannot wait. Trace Beaulieu is coming back, which is a reason for celebration all its own. =)
 
 
wicker woman
09:04 / 15.11.07
Part of me worries, though, whether they can still get back into the groove this many years out. Joel and Trace back together again fills my heart with Happy things, but there's a reason people prefer the thin, young Elvis...
 
 
Spaniel
11:49 / 15.11.07
Probably better to give a little more context in your opener, Yoko. I for one don't know what you're talking about, and I'm disinclined to follow non-hyperlinked links.

Sorry if this comes across as pissing on your fire. It really isn't meant that way.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:33 / 15.11.07
Basically; some of the crew behind the beloved cult TV series Mystery Science Theatre 3000 are, seven years after the cancellation of the show, returning to what they do best—making fun of bad moves, under the new moniker Cinematic Titanic.

For novices: Although the conceit of MST3K is very simple—a man and two robots, trapped in space, are forced to watch bad movies and crack jokes throughout, appearing onscreen mostly as silhouettes against the movie—the history is a little complicated. In the course of the show's ten-year run, all three leads were eventually replaced, with the triumvirate of Joel Hodgson, Josh Weinstein, and Trace Beaulieu giving way one by one to Mike Nelson, Kevin Murphy, and Bill Corbett. Their various career trajectories post-MST are too diffuse to relate here; the important thing is that, in one way or another, all the principals are back doing work based around the MST concept—suggesting that it really is one of those once-in-a-lifetime ideas.

Mike Nelson was the first to revisit the idea—and the first to find a way to effectively monetize it, with RiffTrax. Essentially, RiffTrax are the MST concept as audio-only—mp3s that sync up to various films and function as an alternate audio track. The consumer provides the DVD, slips on hir iPod, and laughs away. They're cheap to produce, since (unlike the TV version) they don't necessitate buying the rights to movie itself; it's an adjunct product that doesn't infringe on the copyright of the film. nelson started off doing RiffTrax solo, and eventually brought Murphy and Corbett into the fold, essentially recreating the late-season MST3K line-up.

Now Hodgson has reunited with his original partners to do something far closer to the original MST3K concept—obtaining the rights to crummy old B-movies, onscreen silhouettes—and distributing the whole thing on the Web, as torrented video. This may be the purist's choice, but it's sure to be more of a specialist product than RiffTrax; it will probably cost more to produce and generate less revenue.

Not to be outdone, some of the lesser-known folks behind the original show are doing their best to keep the MST3K brand alive, having revived the robot characters for a new series of web animations.

I think it's interesting to look at MST3K as a cultural moment, and to look at what the various people involved took away from that moment—the varying opinions on what made MST3K "work"; was it the jokes alone? the interactive element of the silhouettes? the characters? Each of these new projects takes some element of the old show and runs with it, hoping to put the lightning back in the bottle.

But I don't know—there's a whiff of reliving past glories, here. All of these people are very talented and funny—Joel Hodgson, in particular, is possessed of a truly strange and creative mind. And as I said above, MST3K is one of those great, brilliantly simple ideas, with no built-in expiration date: the idea can run as long as there are bad movies being made.

But doesn't it seem a little—well, like a waste for these guys to still be picking over a corpse that's seven years dead? Wouldn't it be better to leave the past behind and move on to the next thing?
 
 
wicker woman
04:23 / 16.11.07
Thanks for making the post I should've made in the first place, Jack.

What made the show for me, really, was just the ripping on bad movies. With a few notable exceptions, the live-action skits did almost nothing for me, and a lot of times just came off as an annoying break in the much better written piss-taking of the movies. In that sense, I suppose, the characters are pretty incidental. Rarely are they in character when they're in the 'theatre'; it could have just as easily been the voice actor's silouhettes and still worked.

As far as the grave digging goes, part of me thinks you may be right, but the larger part is such an MST nerd that it doesn't care.

I recall a previous discussion on Mystery Science Theater on here where the notion of whether these movies should really be pounded on was brought up, as regardless of their quality, these movies were still often labors of love for the people making them. I'm inclined to disagree. I mean, what a way to find out you've made a shit product; at least you'll laugh while you're dying inside...
 
 
PatrickMM
05:29 / 16.11.07
Here's an interesting article on that very topic, pointing to MST3K as a prime offender in the ironic viewing moment. I'm sort of torn, even though I like the show, it is exemplary of a type of cinema viewing that I despise. For me, the best movies are ones that put you in a head space where something that might seem ridiculous out of context feels profound and transporting in the film. Think of the singing "Wise Up" sequence in Magnolia, it would be easy to laugh at, but if you're engaged with the film, it's profound.

I think one of his best points is that MST3K encourages a normative type of film viewing, mocking anything outside the mainstream, one that's not emotionally open or stylistically unconventional. That's not to say that the films they watch are good, but I could easily see them skewering a lot of good stuff, say David Lynch's or Wong Kar-Wai's movies, with the same voice. It's not just about the show though, I think a lot of people do have a problem engaging with films outside the ordinary, people call movies "weird" as a put down, and this sort of ironic viewing voice doesn't encourage an expanded viewing mindset.
 
 
Janean Patience
07:43 / 16.11.07
I've never seen MT3K but I sure don't like the tone of that linked article. It reads like the guy saw a film he reveres being mocked, took offence and has used his contempt for the show and its audience as fuel for an essay which pretends to a higher level of thinking but continually undermines itself. What basis is there for saying mockery of bad movies is "the voice of a viewing public paralyzed by fear, desperate for any externalization of a comforting 'distance' to protect them from recognizing their own anxieties" except that the author doesn't want to see his favourites laughed at? It's just name-calling with an education.
 
 
DaveBCooper
08:25 / 16.11.07
"The robots on the bottom of the MST3K screen are scotomas"?
As a migraine sufferer, I find that deeply offensive.

Well, all right, I don't, but I agree with JP about the tone of the article. Its central point may have some validity, but it undermines itself horribly with stuff like the claim that fans of the show probably won't have heard of This Island Earth.

(Have only seen the MST3K film, but found it fairly amusing. Little more to contribute, really.)
 
 
Jack Fear
09:54 / 16.11.07
It's interesting, in light of that article, to remember that the MST crew got started riffing on low-budget, outside-the-mainstream films entirely out of economic necessity—they were the only films to which they could obtain the rights cheaply enough to make the show affordable.

But Mike Nelson, at least, always believed that big-budget Hollywood product is just as mock-worthy as the backyard cheapies of Bill Rebane or Ed Wood—and with RiffTrax, he's been able to let loose on 'em, producing commentaries for the Spider-man and Matrix movies, even Star Wars.

Now, I haven't listened to the RiffTrax series, myself, so can anybody tell me—are they any good? Does the zinger approach work against a "quality" target? Or is the MST aesthetic only effective when they've got their sights turned on films whose production values are even crappier than their own?
 
 
wicker woman
08:12 / 20.11.07
You can check out examples of it on Youtube. Here is a link to the "Kung-Fu" scene from The Matrix.

I've never bought one, so I can't speak for the quality of a whole Trak... er, Traxii... yeah. But, IMO, they're a bit more hit-and-miss than MST3K. They do hit on some truly shit movies though; Daredevil being a prime example. I don't think you can find anyone willing to argue that that film doesn't deserve a rifftrax.

The bit I've seen from Daredevil, by the way (the playground fight) is pretty great, by the way.
 
 
Liger Null
09:38 / 21.11.07
Think of the singing "Wise Up" sequence in Magnolia, it would be easy to laugh at, but if you're engaged with the film, it's profound.

Somewhat off-topic, but I found that scene to be overwrought, unnecessary, and just plain silly. It was one of the things that actually *prevented* me from getting engaged with Magnolia. Which is a shame really, because it could have been a really great film with some judicious editing.
 
  
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