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What have I become?

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17:59 / 22.10.07

So I turn round and find myself at 28 standing in Heathrow airport. I am surrounded by white middle aged men in suits. Someone who looked of indeterminate gender walks by and they start going "what the fuck was that". A lady with a cracking arse walks by and they start saying "check out the arse on that."

Then I sit in meetings where people talk about how to get more, more, more money. I feel totally bored and alienated. Nobody is particularly nice.

Thing is it is so hard to give up. I'm on 70k GBP now. Any other job I go for will probably mean a large pay cut. Was offered one for about half but I just couldn't do it. The money just locks you in.

Anyone been in a similar position. Find yourself stuck in some corporate rut? Not really sure what I want to do besides...

18:02 / 22.10.07

Am willing to become your personal life coach.

Rates reasonable.

*

18:14 / 22.10.07

You're not your job. You're the person who does whatever it is you do on weekends and holidays. Take some personal time and go skydiving in the Himalayas or something. It's not that if you're rich, you're an asshat--it's just that the economy tends to reward asshats. There need to be more non-asshats with money.

If you don't already, pick a cause you want to support and do what you can. Whenever you find the time to do volunteer work, you'll find it's refreshing. Talk nicely with homeless people. This is about nourishing your soul; if your job doesn't do it, supplement.

*

18:16 / 22.10.07

(psst... grant... you gotta give free samples. That's how you get em hooked.)

18:36 / 22.10.07

I don't tend to have too many weekends. I mostly work during them. My work kind of revolves round it. I usually travel away to work so I will be away, then get home late Friday then leave Sunday. It depends.

So my girlfriend gets pissed off because I am never there. We argue and resent each other. I spent most of my time either with people I hate, people I am indifferent to, people I have to have serious, tense times with to do work, or people who are paying lots of money for me to do my thing.

I might just quit... but it just seems like I'd never be able to do stuff like have a nice house or have kids and give them a good life.

19:07 / 22.10.07

Do you live in London? Half a salary in a more rewarding career will go a lot further outside the capital. I worry about the whole kids thing - not that I earn anywhere near 70k or even half. Most families have two working parents and there's no choice involved in that. We're planning to struggle on two small part time salaries and I won't lie and say I am not aprehensive about the future because I am. But on the whole I think I'd rather be tight for cash and get home on time each night than let the quest for ever more cash and an ever bigger house in an ever better area cast a shadow over the important things. If you're thinking about kids then surely yours and your girlfriedn's relationship is the most important thing in your life. Focus on that and the rest should become easier (and less important).

*

19:11 / 22.10.07

Whatever you do that nourishes your soul is the main course. Sounds like all you've been eating is moldy crisps. Who makes personnel decisions? Are they someone you can negotiate your work schedule with? Otherwise, see if there's some firm you can get a job with that has heard of the phrase "work-life balance".

19:24 / 22.10.07

Oh Buk, you seemed like such a nice lad.

19:33 / 22.10.07

Well, Buk, the first advice I can give you for free is this:

You need a plan. Being aware something is wrong is not enough. You need to identify what you want to eliminate (AS SPECIFICALLY AS POSSIBLE), then conceive of what your life will be like without that thing. And then follow steps taking you toward that life.

I'm imagining that your first step might be socking away as much savings as possible into an "escape fund."

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:35 / 22.10.07

70k? I can't even imagine that! I was gobsmacked when they told me my latest payrise took me just over 23! (Given that my previous job topped out at about 10 and a half, it still seems ludicrous).

I'm on the verge of quitting my job because if I hear the phrase "going forward" ONCE FUCKING MORE I'm likely to kill someone. I'm not sure I was built for the corporate job market. Not that my job IS, but the people who now own us ARE, if you see what I mean.

My advice? Go postal.

19:49 / 22.10.07

My advice?

EMBEZZLE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM AND MOVE WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND TO BRAZIL!!!

You wouldn't be the first.

Happy Dave Has Left

19:58 / 22.10.07

Hello, my name is Dave and I used to be a corporate drone.

I used to work for one of the big consultancies, salary in the 'wow, more than I feel I should be earning in my mid-20's' mark. I got out reasonably early - my salary, thankfully (since I was in the process of moving my wife over from the US, and supporting both of us while she looked for work) stayed the same, but if I'd stayed in the consulting game it'd probably be 10 - 15k above what it is now. I really, really don't miss it.

Buk, take a look at your life, at the money you spend, and at the work you do. I know right now it feels like you're used to that money, and what it gets you, and you could never give that up, but stop and think. Do you really need it? Have you saved it or just spent it on stuff you don't really need? Are you supporting a family? Could you save for six months (I mean really save, put a third of your salary or more away each month) then fuck off and volunteer somewhere while you consider your next move?

You're clearly bored of your job, and alienated from the other people in your income and social brackets. That's no way to live a life.

If you're in London or nearby, let's go for a pint.

20:19 / 22.10.07

MOVE WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND TO BRAZIL

Something like that's not an entirely bad idea. I'm living in Argentina now and if I knew I'd end up here and saved a bit of money I would have been able to live comfortably without work or stress for a long time and I wasn't making nearly as much as you. If you could hack it I'd save up for a couple of years, like really really save and have a few years off to decide what you what to do. Nobody has to stay in the UK.

In the meantime Vodka.

Glenn Close But No Cigar

21:02 / 22.10.07

To a large degree: "what grant said". I add to that that if you're on 70K, while it seems like a lot of money p.a. to many of us here (including me!), it's not if you're planning to buy a half-way nice place to live in (I'm guessing from the location you've posted next to your member details) Bristol. A semi-responsible mortage lender will lend you, say, 4-5 your salary, so that's 280 - 350,000, which will get you a small place in an ok part of Bristol, if you're lucky, and a lot less than that if you decide to buy (as many posters have assumed is your plan) in London. Don't want to come over all boring, but those seem (not taking into account any funds you may have inherited / any contribution to this your partner may be able to make etc) to be the bare economic facts, more or less.

I've no real idea of your future hopes and dreams beyond an impression you want to build a happy, safe and stable life for a future family. I do know, though, that you're in a position to re-think things. You're young, you're childless, you're pulling in enough money to (I assume) allow for a few month's break to mull all this over. Go for it, and very good luck!

22:49 / 22.10.07

Oh Buk, you seemed like such a nice lad.

eh?

Glenn Close But No Cigar

22:55 / 22.10.07

Yeah, I thought that was a slightly odd comment too. As Buk has demonstrated, one can work for TEH MAN!! for $$$!! and still be a thoughtful chap - just think, after all, of the Invisibles' very own Mason Lang*. Medulla has of course yet to return to this thread to explain her post, and a prod at Buk may very well not have been her intention, but it is open to that reading.

*(No, not being serious...)

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:17 / 22.10.07

I thought she was fairly obviously making a light-hearted joke riffing off Buk's own self-deprecating topic heading myself, but far be it from me to assume intent on behalf of another.

00:11 / 23.10.07

Yes, Stoats, it was certainly humour. Buk, as I recall, has a good sense of it and I am sure he will take it as such.

Buk, *hugs* dude. Here's to finding a path with heart.

And may your path find it's way to my door again some day if you take off some time to travel. Then again, there is so much out there to see and do elsewhere, but you are always welcome at my home.

Sorry for the confusion.

Sjaak at the Shoe Shop

06:45 / 23.10.07

I don't think it really matters how much money you make, there are plenty of people you earn the same, and manage to have a different work-life balance.

But from your post it seems that a) the people you work with are not very interesting to you, and b) your work seems to control your life.

Now this last part is something you can work on, if you want to, but it involves making choices. You say you want to have more time to yourself, but your actions (all this inferring from your post) clearly say otherwise. Your actions say that you find your work the most important thing in life and to hell with all the rest.

This can be ok, if this is what you want. So my question to you would be: where are your priorities in life?
If you want to focus more on your social life then you will have to make that choice, and by that I mean fight for it, fight against the corporate rut, start going home at 5, don't check work emails from home, leave your laptop at the office, etc etc.

Initially your colleagues may challenge you, but hey, your girlfriend and friends are then more important than work, right?

07:52 / 23.10.07

I have a solution. But as the first rule is that I'm not supposed to talk about it I guess it won't be much help.

I might just quit... but it just seems like I'd never be able to do stuff like have a nice house or have kids and give them a good life.

Seriously though. It sounds as though you're not enjoying the job and it's having a negative impact on the things and people you like outside of it. Job satisfaction is just as important as the money you make.

Lots of people have a nice house and kids on far less money.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

07:54 / 23.10.07

Not that I'm advocating your quitting mind. Might as well take a lower-paying but less demanding job rather than have no funds coming in.

08:11 / 23.10.07

Swimming against the tide a little, I'm going the other way to you, Buk. I've spent my twenties skint and working shit jobs whilst having a great time but getting into debt, I hated my jobs about as much as you seem to, but got nowhere near as much cash for my trauma. Now I am moving into a position where I sell my time to the man for a lot more dollah, and my life has got better- it turns out money is really handy for lots of things.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's a lot easier to take a week off and go skydiving in the Maldives if you're on £70k than it is to find the rent if you're on £10k but spending time with lovely folk. I feel your pain in the corporate mincer, I really do, but look on the bright side- you could buy a boat and live on it if you wanted, the world is your oyster.
Could you go to part time, like half the work you do now for half the pay? You'd still be minted but you'd only work a three day week, would that appeal?

09:29 / 23.10.07

If I had lucked myself into 70K a year, and was part of a stable, satisfying relationship, I believe my ideal plan of action would go as follows;

1. Spend a few years living as cheaply as is humanly possible, in student digs or somesuch, whilst stashing all income in some form of high interest account or whatnot.

2. When the time comes, quit the job, arrange to buy some derelict dump out in the depths of Wales/Scotland/Ireland that has yet to be redeveloped into a posh folks holiday home (they exist.. for now).

3. Commence rebuilding, rewiring/plumbing etc., raising animals and growing veg and generally spending your time raising a family / arsing about / preparing to sit out the apocalypse (delete as applicable to your individual concerns).

You may say I'm naive..... etc.

Alternatively, seeing as how you earn nearly four times what I do, you could always give some money to me. It'll be like a one-on-one charity thing; I'll plough it into the creative arts (in a manner of speaking), and you'll feel good about it...

You may say I'm naive..... etc.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:44 / 23.10.07

Spend a few years living as cheaply as is humanly possible, in student digs or somesuch, whilst stashing all income in some form of high interest account or whatnot.

Problem is, you can't very easily do this. There are a lot of side costs involved in this sort of thing - gaudily cut suits, champagne, lap dances - without regular expenditure on which you can no longer effectively do the job. Unless it's in IT, in which case you can look and smell like a homeless hobbit, natch.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:50 / 23.10.07

Someone who looked of indeterminate gender walks by and they start going "what the fuck was that". A lady with a cracking arse walks by and they start saying "check out the arse on that."

Were these colleagues?

10:58 / 23.10.07

Unless it's in IT, in which case you can look and smell like a homeless hobbit, natch.

I'm changing my career path right now!

I...I don't have to actually know anything about computers do I? That's the impression I get from my company's IT department.

Tryphena Absent

11:38 / 23.10.07

I think it sounds like you need to get a new job. In 20 years time do you really want to have sacrificed your 30s to working and feeling lonely all weekend?

Sjaak at the Shoe Shop

11:55 / 23.10.07

I don't necessarily agree, it may well be possible to keep the current job at a lower intensity AND spend time having fun.

Tryphena Absent

12:27 / 23.10.07

Hi corporate boss,

Please could I stay at home this weekend? My girlfriend wants me too.

12:43 / 23.10.07

Well, logic would assume that if one is that highly paid then not just anyone could step into the position and do it well. That there is some expertise that demands such a fee. There may be some room for negotiation if one has already established their contacts and client base and proved themselves to be invaluable and indispensable to the company. People will wait AND pay for stellar performance - not forever though!

All Acting Regiment

12:55 / 23.10.07

Could you move to a different position within the same company that offered more suitable hours?

12:59 / 23.10.07

logic would assume that if one is that highly paid then not just anyone could step into the position and do it well

Logic would be falling prey to the common misconception that the corporate world makes sense. It seems to me that the more senior you get the less you do and the more you get paid (not to denigrate your work, buk), the corporate ladder seems to reward seniority based on prestige rather than excellence. There are plenty of highly paid incompetent asshats blagging their way through the business world, the only difference to IT is the aforementioned stinky hobbit wardrobe.

13:33 / 23.10.07

Logic would be falling prey to the common misconception that the corporate world makes sense.

Logic falls prey to that misconception, corporate or otherwise, quite a bit.

Having known quite a few old farts in the corporate world, and a few young ones at that. The senior executives who seem to do nothing but martini lunches for hours, talk on their phones a bit and golf are quite a phenomenon. What they have is knowledge of the business and networking skills through their reputation. Someone who is younger might have technical skills, but getting the reputation and intimate knowledge of their industry is invaluable.

Mostly irrelevant to this conversation, but my point is, you have to know what you are (so highly) valued for. Only then can you negotiate and exploit the company that exploits you.

But it seems we are both keen to the twisted logic of the corporate world, Quants. I was just trying to be polite.

Sjaak at the Shoe Shop

13:49 / 23.10.07

Still, assuming corporations are not completely twisted Medulla is right.
To have such a jog requires a special skill set, and that makes somebody valuable to a company, especially in the current employment market.

The process that most companies use to sift through talents is mostly based on two pillars: complexity and volume.

Complexity is very much determined by your skills, volume by your determination (and the extent you want to go).
Simply put: if you work harder you rise faster. All the company needs to do is feed work. It is up to the individual to stop eating, which (in my experience at least) is then quite easily accepted (as you're still working 50 hrs instead of 80). Just means that your colleague may get the next promotion instead.

19:51 / 23.10.07

Hmmm, think I was really pissed off yesterday due to having to spend lots of time in airports with absolute shits.

Its not all bad.

Glenn - Yeah, it is scary. I'd have to get a huge mortgage to buy a house at the moment and then I'd be locked in to having to earn lots. I would, boringly enough, like to have a nice house and have children and stuff. Just seems unreal how much it costs when you just want somewhere decent.

Bear - I've thought a lot about going away somewhere else. Taking my savings and living cheaper. Maybe. The "4 hour work week" is a great book. I think I do want to settle in the UK though and buy a house and stuff so not sure if not earning and spending my savings is right for me. I've been working on some websites which I'm trying to earn some income from. So far this month I've made about 20 quid so I won't be retiring any time soon but it would be nice to have some separate income. I'm trying to invest some money and earn a bit from that as well. I'd like to get to the stage where I have enough coming in that I don't have to work but that seems like a dream at the moment.

Medulla - Don't worry I get the joke. I haven't been to Montreal in ages. Miss it.

Sjaak - The work/life balance thing is difficult for me. I often like a lot of what I do. I enjoy travelling. I'm typing this from a balcony of a 5-star hotel with the waves crashign against rocks outside. I worked till 9 this evening but it was just discussing interesting stuff. So that was cool...but I'm away from what home I have all week and wont have much of a weekend.

The thing is a lot of the stuff I control myself. I work from home and travel. I met my boss for the first time today in months... but if I don't do the work then I end up looking bad and feeling bad and not being able to do stuff. I often just chill when I am working from home but then end up doing stuff late at night. Sometimes my hours are great sometimes bad, I suppose.

I just kinda dislike the corporate sales driven environment while at the time realising how attached I am to earning a good salary. Does that make me a hypocrite?
I dont really spend that much. Save about half every month.

It's a one way door as well though. It's been bloody hard to get to the stage where I have a senior well paid job. If I give it up then I doubt it will be easy to get back.

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