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IPCC and Gore awarded Nobel Peace Prize

 
 
pfhlick
15:20 / 12.10.07
The news reports I've heard all point out that there is little GW skepticism outside of the USA. All morning I've been hearing that everyone agrees the debate is over (a nice switch from the old standby, "A few oil industry guys disagree with everyone else, hold everything!"). Will Americans take a walk or something? What's Gore's next move?

From NYT: '“The message that it sends is that the Nobel Prize committee realized the value of knowledge in tackling the problem of climate change and the fact that the I.P.C.C. has an established record of producing knowledge and an impartial and objective assessment of climate change,” he said

Dr. Pachauri said he thought the award would now settle the scientific debate on climate change and that governments would now take action.
'

Fingers crossed. Ride a bike!
 
 
Malle Babbe
19:46 / 12.10.07
Doubt it. I'm sure the Fox News crowd will foam and froth about "foreign intellectuals" trying to shape American politics by giving the award to Gore.

However, I always get a chuckle when I look at the 2004 US Electoral Map. Nearly all of the Red States are smack dab in hurricane country, tornado country, or are vulnerable to drought. In the event that weather conditions get worse, will those folks start hounding their representative and senators to take action, or will they simply rampage on whoever the radio talk shows say is the Scapegoat of the Day? Currently their wrath is focused on children who lack the decency to die in car crashes, I wonder who they will pounce on next?

At this point I am just tired of the militant stupidity cultivated by the right in my country. To me, the big question is not whether or not Global Warming is happening, it is why I should care about Florida getting flooded out when I live in the mountains of Pennsylvania.
 
 
grant
20:48 / 12.10.07
Supreme Court is questioning the Nobel voting process; has named GWBush the actual laureate.
 
 
Chiropteran
02:41 / 13.10.07
grant, don't do that!
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
06:20 / 13.10.07
For real, man. I almost broke my keyboard with my fists.
 
 
astrojax69
06:40 / 13.10.07
i was sure the nobel panel member from chad is implicated...


on topic [] our local paper ran with with, not so much the fact that yay, al had won a nobel, but that his nobel had 'strengthened calls for him to run in 2008'... my immediate reaction was 'why'? how would this make his prospective candidacy any more pressing - in fact, wouldn't the nobel mean he is obviously able to do a great deal from outside the oval office, prob'ly more than within?

or am i naive?

and it also occurs to me how 'peace' is defined nobel'ly (should be a word) if al and ipcc get it?? struck me as an odd - if excellent - choice for a 'peace' prize...
 
 
Tsuga
12:19 / 13.10.07
I think the idea behind it is that with climate change the potential exists for much more conflict in the future over diminishing resources like water or food, refugee migrations, etc.

As far as his presidential possibilities, I guess the prize just adds to his cachet, so some may think he should exploit that.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:00 / 15.10.07
I'd just like to point out that neither Will Americans take a walk or something? or Will America put down the burger...? are particularly helpful ways to summarise the challenges of climate change and the actions needed to minimise and mitigate its effects. Whilst walking as a means of making everyday journeys is to be encouraged, I'm wary of conflating cultural, health and sustainability issues via a lazy, simplistic shorthand which reeks of cultural and national prejudices. Or to put it another way - what if it's a healthy, ethically and sustainability sourced (vege-?)burger?
 
 
_pin
12:09 / 16.10.07
Petey; just wondering, but is there some way of framing the opening salvos of a debate about diet and climate change that you don't object to?

I ask with specific reference to recent Vegetarian Society poster campagins and DEFRA's milk roadmap, the typical reactions to which Clarkson embodies here (although he isn't talking about either of those, specifically). Can the debate be had without Shaftoing those who raise it?

(To Shaftoe here there and everywhere being v. "to find in an argument racist / classist / sexist, such that it becomes untenable," and as such not a derogatory term, and if you take offence I'm sorry)
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:59 / 16.10.07
Um, sure, there are lots of ways. The two key ones are firstly to stress that reducing the likelihood and mitigating the effects of climate change requires changes to be made across all social strata - that it's not just a question of the people who eat food you sneer at and live lifestyles you don't find aesthetically repellent changing their ways.

You'd follow that up by being very clear about the debates regarding diet that address individual health, and the ones that are about environmental and social sustainability - I mean clear both in the sense that these two are separate issues that, while they overlap, don't necessarily complement each other every time, and clear in the sense that there is a range of debate going on within what we might (overly simplistically) call the sustainability movement or sector (e.g. there are those who think vegetarianism is a necessity for sustainable living, and those who do not).
 
 
pfhlick
18:33 / 16.10.07
I have little hope for the people I see every day to change their ways and it does make me bitter and lazy and patronizing. I disagree with what I see as their destructive lifestyle choices and try to make that manifest in my own life. My comment about burger eating is nothing to do with the health of individuals and everything to do with inefficiency and fossil fuel inputs. I'm new here and I'm still figuring out when a little pissiness is appropriate and when it's just totally not helpful, so sorry if I offended.

I do think that awarding Gore and the IPCC the peace prize was a intended to be a bucket of cold water to wake up the most oil hungry nation in the world. Scientific American ran a dozen or so page article in their August issue by the lead authors of the IPCC Working Group I report, which stated very strongly that climate change/global warming would not be occurring in the same fashion without human activities. Most of the article was devoted to the titular "Physical Science of Climate Change", but it also touched on Working Group II's predictions about the consequences of warming and Working Group III's recommendations about adapting to and mitigating climate change.

Gore has been working tirelessly since having his presidency stolen, trying to convince people (mostly Americans, I suspect) that global warming is a real threat. This may lend him some more credibility or confirm suspicions of a global liberal conspiracy to deny 'Mericans their happy motoring.

The world is changing right before our very eyes, in a way that will have very real consequences all around the world. The actions of the wealthiest, oil burningest, burger eatingest societies, over the next few decades, could very well determine the magnitude of climate change and its ill effects. So, more power to Gore and the IPCC. Maybe through their efforts and those of countless others, some kind of balance will be struck.
 
 
pfhlick
18:42 / 16.10.07
You'd follow that up by being very clear about the debates regarding diet that address individual health, and the ones that are about environmental and social sustainability - I mean clear both in the sense that these two are separate issues that, while they overlap, don't necessarily complement each other every time, and clear in the sense that there is a range of debate going on within what we might (overly simplistically) call the sustainability movement or sector (e.g. there are those who think vegetarianism is a necessity for sustainable living, and those who do not).

I am not a card-carrying, shotgun toting vegan or anything, but raising cattle in factory farms is incredibly wasteful, in terms of energy, and there is a tremendous social inertia to be overcome on the issue of how and what we eat. I work hard in my interactions with people to attach a stigma to meat eating, and I don't feel bad about that. If part of the reason meat eating is stigmatized is that it is bad for you, individually, in excess, I really don't feel bad about that either. Will I throw away all the meat in your refrigerator or something? Hells no, but I will casually display my disdain towards choice you have made to eat meat (over and over again).
 
 
*
04:15 / 17.10.07
And then those of us with b12 malabsorption will be taking weekly b12 injections, and where do you think those come from? Think they're organic? Sustainably sourced? Or maybe permanent neurological damage is the sustainable solution?

Not eating meat is not an option for everybody. Not eating factory farmed meat should be, but because of the government's policies with regards to farm and livestock subsidies, it isn't.
 
 
pfhlick
19:02 / 21.10.07
And then those of us with b12 malabsorption will be taking weekly b12 injections, and where do you think those come from? Think they're organic? Sustainably sourced? Or maybe permanent neurological damage is the sustainable solution?

Take care of your health, of course. I don't perfectly embody any sort of ideal, and I try to look after myself. I realize everyone's trying to do that in their own way.

Not eating meat is not an option for everybody. Not eating factory farmed meat should be, but because of the government's policies with regards to farm and livestock subsidies, it isn't.

Thanks for saying that so I didn't veer off into some illconcieved rant.
 
  
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